CTP2CTP Aiming

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Aloha all,

For what it's worth, I've never read CTE/Pro1 or anything of the sort just to set the record straight, so I don't know how anything I do relates to any other method that anybody else uses or promotes. And just to let you know, I am not selling anything or promoting anything. I'm just sharing something that I think may be useful to players who are figuring out the basics and have not settled into a style yet.

Lots of people over the years have asked me how I aim and they are startled when I tell them how simple it is (for me).

I started playing pool before my teens and then worked in a pool hall for several years until I finished high school. I started as a banger, like everyone else, and then became so good that I could beat anyone in my area when I was 15 or 16. I used to play the old timers one pocket for $100 a game in the early 70s when I was working in the pool hall because nobody would play me 9-ball. When out-of-towners came in, I got plenty of action, because everybody thought they could beat a "kid" The owner would tell me to take whatever money I needed from the cash register and play whomever wanted to play what. I won WAY more times than I lost.

While learning to play and watching, I noticed that everybody seemed to be trying to figure out how to aim, while I always thought it was relative simple. Just hit the cue ball in the same spot that you wanted to hit the object ball in order to make it go in a line to the pocket.

It is kind of hard to explain, but easy to see when shown in person. For example if I want to cut the object ball 1/8 to the left, I just hit the cue ball on the left side 1/8 from the edge with my cue tip. That way the left 1/8 of the cue ball hits the right 1/8 of the object ball. I am aligning my cue tip to the "spot" on the object ball that I want to hit. I've heard SVB explain how he aims with the "edges" of his cue and his method may be similar to mine (He tries to explain his method here: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ-ohU0sJXE). With today's low deflection shafts, the cue ball goes "relatively" straight even if you hit off the vertical center of the cue ball. With that in mind, you can hit the cue ball from one edge to the other and it will still go straight unless you are elevating the cue which will cause swerve. When I am shooting an object ball at a 90 degree cut down a rail I am actually aiming the tip of my stick at the "EXTREME" edge of the cue ball because I want to hit the "EXTREME" edge of the object ball. The spot I am aiming at on the cue ball is a "mirror" image of the spot I want to hit the object ball, only every thing is reversed. I hit the inside edge of the cue ball in the same spot I want to hit the outside edge of the object ball. For straight in shots, it is a no brainer...center of cue ball to center of object ball. And for those of you who don't know it, straight in shots are the ONLY shots where you have a "built in" aiming reference point...the BOTTOM of the object ball. The tiny spot where the ball touches the table is the exact center of the ball...look below the ball at the table and aim at that SPOT...not the object ball itself.

One of the things you will quickly notice when you use this method is that you are aiming at the "inside" of the cue ball all the time when you are aiming. If you want to put a bit of outside, you adjust your whole cue over just a bit after you have made your alignment.

For lack of knowing what this method is called, I call it "Contact Point To Contact Point" aiming. I'll even give it a fancy acronym like "CP2CP" so it will sound like something special and important, but it is actually SIMPLE and ACCURATE.

The other day, one of the guys in the pool hall asked me if I was over 60 yet and I asked why and he said he didn't see many 60 year old guys running racks too often. I had just put a 5-pack on him and then made the 9 on the break in the 6th game and scratched. Shortly after that, I put a 3-pack on him and then made the 9 on the break again and scratched. It is getting harder and harder to run those at my age, but having made my game as "simple" as possible it makes it a bit easier to do than if I was trying to figure out where to aim every shot.

This method may not be for everyone, but it works for me.
 
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Sounds very much like the method I fell into when trying to learn how to aim. I started with ghost ball (of course, doesn't everyone?) but I had a hard time seeing the right line.

Once, while setting up an OB-GhostCB combination, it dawned on me that the CP on the OB and CB were mirror images. I call it an Equal Distance or Equal Overlap method (another AZer said it was developed/refined by Jimmy Reid) Here it is on paper:

This only works on cut shots that are thinner than a 1/2-ball hit. Thicker than 1/2-ball hit is kind 1/2 the distance this method shows.
 

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Thank you. That is the method I am referring to. I don't know who figured it out first or who promoted it, but that is a tried and true method that actually works.

For those of you who haven't noticed yet, this could also be called "TOI" because every angle of hitting the object ball on a cut of any type is using the "inside" of the cue ball if you hit the actual aiming "spot" on the cue ball.

In some cases you will have way more than a "touch" of inside, but it all works out when utilized together.
 
headed for the aiming bottomless pit

Sounds very much like the method I fell into when trying to learn how to aim. I started with ghost ball (of course, doesn't everyone?) but I had a hard time seeing the right line.

Once, while setting up an OB-GhostCB combination, it dawned on me that the CP on the OB and CB were mirror images. I call it an Equal Distance or Equal Overlap method (another AZer said it was developed/refined by Jimmy Reid) Here it is on paper:

This only works on cut shots that are thinner than a 1/2-ball hit. Thicker than 1/2-ball hit is kind 1/2 the distance this method shows.


This thread is headed for the aiming bottomless pit, a special forum on here just for aiming threads. However I'm going to sneak in a quick comment if I type fast, the opposite point method is the only way I can aim. I can't use fractions or any of the other methods, just not the way I see things after using opposite points for so long.

Hal Houle said that you could aim at the same place every time and make any shot, I wonder if this was what he was talking about? I don't know, too late to ask now!

Hit the point opposite the pocket and adjusting for a few minor quibbles, the ball goes in the hole. When I try to complicate things more than that I can't make a ball in the ocean.

Hu
 
@OP - Interesting - do you find that you get much / any effect from 'throw' ? (side spin on cueball when it contacts the object ball)

Cheers.
 
I Like it!

I think I get it, if you ever head to Texas PM me, I'd like to see this at the table.
 
I actually enjoy the aiming threads. In my opinion it was a bad move to bury the aiming conversation . I guess it was just offensive to some:shrug:
 
Hal Houle said that you could aim at the same place every time and make any shot, I wonder if this was what he was talking about? I don't know, too late to ask now!
Hu

I don't know Hal, but I think he was probably referring to something similar.

I aim (with a hair or two variance) at the same place every time and "hopefully" make "any" shot. If I miss, it is like any other system...I DIDN'T hit where I was aiming. It WASN'T the system, it was ME.
 
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@OP - Interesting - do you find that you get much / any effect from 'throw' ? (side spin on cueball when it contacts the object ball)

Cheers.

You DO get a bit of throw, but you figure it out with a bit of practice. It is like any other system, you have to play with it to see how it works for YOU.

Also, you have to hit the ball "firmer" than what you are used to in order to keep the cue ball in line on its way to the target... "the spot on the object ball". I think the firmness and bit of "throw" deadens the cue ball somewhat as it comes off a rail and makes it come off the rail with less inside English than what you would think. I stay "inside" and just move high or low on the cue ball as needed to move around the table. There will be times that you will have to put "outside" on the ball, but I align myself for the inside and adjust.

If any of this isn't making sense, I'm kind of in a hurry at the moment. I'm putting a White Diamond tip on my breaking cue, old-school style (fingers, glue, tip, razor knife) and it is one HARD SOB. Did I mention I got some glue stuck on my fingers? LOL.
 
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So, say the contact point on the OB is right on the outside 1/4 you would aim the centre of your tip through the inside 1/4 on the CB at the outside 1/4 on the OB? That sounds like a lot of spin generated. Or do you use the edges of the shaft, or do you parallel shift the cue over to centre cue ball? I don't think I could play that way, id have to plan racks out using extreme amounts of inside.

It sounds very similar to how I aim. I basically stand centre CB to centre OB, draw a line from the pocket to OB to find my contact point, say its at the outside 1/4 mark. Then ill line up the the CB so the opposite 1/4 on the CB is lined up to the outer 1/4 on the OB and get down to centre CB keeping my cue parallel to the CP2CP line. Basically imagining the OB and CB as flat disks, where ever the CP is on the OB, its the same on the CB but on the opposite side. Stand with my vision centre looking down this line and parallel shift to centre whilst getting down.

I appreciate you taking the time to explain how you do things. I always enjoy reading how other peoples vision is used to aim shots.

The way you do things sounds like a mixture of what I do and TOI.
 
So, say the contact point on the OB is right on the outside 1/4 you would aim the centre of your tip through the inside 1/4 on the CB at the outside 1/4 on the OB? That sounds like a lot of spin generated. Or do you use the edges of the shaft, or do you parallel shift the cue over to centre cue ball? I don't think I could play that way, id have to plan racks out using extreme amounts of inside.

It sounds very similar to how I aim. I basically stand centre CB to centre OB, draw a line from the pocket to OB to find my contact point, say its at the outside 1/4 mark. Then ill line up the the CB so the opposite 1/4 on the CB is lined up to the outer 1/4 on the OB and get down to centre CB keeping my cue parallel to the CP2CP line. Basically imagining the OB and CB as flat disks, where ever the CP is on the OB, its the same on the CB but on the opposite side. Stand with my vision centre looking down this line and parallel shift to centre whilst getting down.

I appreciate you taking the time to explain how you do things. I always enjoy reading how other peoples vision is used to aim shots.

The way you do things sounds like a mixture of what I do and TOI.

You will have to experiment with YOUR cue and YOUR stroke to find out how far inside you can hit and keep the cue ball on line. EVERY cue has a bit of deflection and EXACTLY where you aim the tip on the cue ball won't be the same for every player or every cue.

No system is EXACT...you have to adjust to the system...it doesn't adjust to you.

And the way I play is a mixture of TOI, this system, and anything else I've found that works. Another thing people fail or forget to do is have a PSR. It is a VITAL part of the game, yet hardly anybody takes the time to get a system down. They will run up to the table and slam a few balls in and in not one instance of their shooting did they do anything the SAME way TWICE..even chalk their cue the same way.

If you do everything the SAME way, ALL the time, then you will IMMEDIATELY notice when one part of the your system is breaking down. If you NEVER know what you are doing, then you NEVER know what you need to fix. Most people try to fix the hard things, while they are still screwing up the EASY things. If you get the basics down pat and then add skills, little by little, it is easier than trying to masse before you can hold a cue properly and align yourself to the table.

For what it's worth, I played snooker well before I played pool well. Maybe I'm using a mixture of many different things, but trying to keep it simplified into one package.

Pidge, I've played using your style and still know how, but I found this works better for my style. And I DO plan all my shots around this system. I plan my patterns to play "inside" until I "HAVE TO" use outside to get back in line for inside. My style of playing is to "walk" the ball up and down the table with "inside stun and kill" until I HAVE TO to spin at some weird angle off the rail for the next shot's position. I try to keep the angle of my cue ball always going to the center of the table as much as possible because if you are somewhere in the middle of the table you can make most shots without trying anything fancy. I "try" to plan my shots where I am keeping a "constant" angle on all my shots. I try to keep them somewhat "shallow" cuts so that the cue never has to travel at a real "sharp" or "critical" angle. When you get into sharp angles and having to use "spin" to get out of trouble, then you are asking for more trouble.

With "inside stun and kill" it is much EASIER to keep the cue ball on a tighter string than hitting outside and turning it loose all the time.
 
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Sounds very much like the method I fell into when trying to learn how to aim. I started with ghost ball (of course, doesn't everyone?) but I had a hard time seeing the right line.

Once, while setting up an OB-GhostCB combination, it dawned on me that the CP on the OB and CB were mirror images. I call it an Equal Distance or Equal Overlap method (another AZer said it was developed/refined by Jimmy Reid) Here it is on paper:

This only works on cut shots that are thinner than a 1/2-ball hit. Thicker than 1/2-ball hit is kind 1/2 the distance this method shows.

Since switching to a snooker stance, I've been using a single line of aim that goes to the CP on the OB.

The thing I've noticed is that on most shots I'm not even really dialing in on a specific spot, but rather an area around that spot. I make balls really well, which leads me to two conclusions...

1. Aiming at a contact area on the OB is fine. That depending on the CB/OB/Pocket distance, as long as the CB hits the area on the OB the ball will be made.

2. #2 is false, and I'm just subconsciously adjusting to hit that very specific CP on the OB.

Either way is fine by me.
 
Since switching to a snooker stance, I've been using a single line of aim that goes to the CP on the OB.

The thing I've noticed is that on most shots I'm not even really dialing in on a specific spot, but rather an area around that spot. I make balls really well, which leads me to two conclusions...

1. Aiming at a contact area on the OB is fine. That depending on the CB/OB/Pocket distance, as long as the CB hits the area on the OB the ball will be made.

2. #2 is false, and I'm just subconsciously adjusting to hit that very specific CP on the OB.

Either way is fine by me.

The "degree" of accuracy required for the hit on the object ball becomes more critical depending upon how far the object ball is from the pocket, what the angle to the pocket is, and how much pocket you are able to utilize.

However, on most "open" shots that come up in a game, you can be "off" quite a bit more than you think and still make the ball. How many "rattled-pocket" balls have you made? Also, you can hit before the pocket and get multiple little rail "kisses" and it still manages to go into the hole. I don't advocate "banging" them in like that, but it just illustrates the point that "accuracy" doesn't have to be PERFECT all the time.
 
Interesting chart that I "borrowed" from Mr. Bond's post in another thread. Thanks Mr. Bond. :)
 

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I use my cue to connect the CP to CP then move it laterally and parallel to the center of the CB.

Works good enough.
 
Sounds very much like the method I fell into when trying to learn how to aim. I started with ghost ball (of course, doesn't everyone?) but I had a hard time seeing the right line.

Square up, line in line out aiming, It's as simple as simple can be.

The dashed line out is most important, the solid arrow line in not as much but always look to the black. Always use both lines to be consistent in the visual and complete the connection.

It works on all shots of any angle. When used properly we can one stroke any shot, if we don't make it we will miss it very close, with a straight stroke and proper alignment of course.

It doesn't matter the thickness of the hit. We can pocket any ball from any angle.Once the body is square your eyes ride the line. Always follow it out to the opposite rail, strike the cue ball as needed. It is that simple, even easier if you play inside the cue ball.

The beauty is that it's all visual, all in a glance, little effort to pocket the ball, easy on the brain, keeping it simple.

Sincerely: SS
 
Since switching to a snooker stance, I've been using a single line of aim that goes to the CP on the OB.

The thing I've noticed is that on most shots I'm not even really dialing in on a specific spot, but rather an area around that spot. I make balls really well, which leads me to two conclusions...

1. Aiming at a contact area on the OB is fine. That depending on the CB/OB/Pocket distance, as long as the CB hits the area on the OB the ball will be made.

2. #2 is false, and I'm just subconsciously adjusting to hit that very specific CP on the OB.

Either way is fine by me.

So, you aim directly at the CP, but you make no conscious adjustment for the under cut for certain angles? You're adjusting by feel? Or do you have a way to adjust consciously and just adapted it into your game?

Best,
Mike
 
I use my cue to connect the CP to CP then move it laterally and parallel to the center of the CB.

Works good enough.

LAMas,

You're shooting like the diagram in the second post (as the OP says), but just moving to center cue ball. I was eye balling the offsets and just cueing to center ball when I worked with it.

I'll try to do it with my cue tip/shaft and see how it goes. :thumbup:

Best,
Mike
 
LAMas,

You're shooting like the diagram in the second post (as the OP says), but just moving to center cue ball. I was eye balling the offsets and just cueing to center ball when I worked with it.

I'll try to do it with my cue tip/shaft and see how it goes. :thumbup:

Best,
Mike

Mike,

If you use your cue, pivot from CP2CP to center CB with the pivot point being your grip hand - further back the better. This will not be exactly parallel but 1 or 2 degrees to the outside of parallel. This error is slight when the CB and OB are close and increases as the separation increases. You know.

To partially eliminate this angle, first move your grip about the distance from the CP2CP line the distance from there to the center of the CB and then move your bridge until the tip of your cue is at the center of the CB.

Have fun and be well.
 
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