And the best way to set a new standard is to make a public statement that pool players lack integrity?
Why not just set rules in your tournament and enforce them?
Integrity, the missing ingredient .
- Thread starter Brian_Laflamme
- Start date
And the best way to set a new standard is to make a public statement that pool players lack integrity?
Why not just set rules in your tournament and enforce them?
I havent said anything to be embarassed of. And when you find out who I am come and say hi.
RBC
Deceased
What do you think he's trying to do?
Exactly that.
You come on here and spew your side but don't have the balls to put your name on it.
Without your willingness to do that, your words are meaningless.
Royce Bunnell
Thank you for the post Mr.Griffin, you are right, I cannot expect the pool world to adopt what I think is right. I never mentioned pattern racking, but once again, you are right, it is not (easily) enforceable.
I already plan on amending the rules for events that I run. I have already done so in prior events to solve other issues, I will do so to solve any other issues.
As I have mentioned, I think 9 Ball should be replaced, but it has nothing to do with my own preferences. I simply feel that 9 Ball does a poor job showcasing our top player's skills. It does not exactly encourage the kind of play that would be worthy of a highlight reel.
You make a great point that it is not as easy as the pros make it look.You and I, along with the majority of pool players can't string together racks regardless of whether we pattern rack or manipulate the rack.
I would like to know what your opinion is on whether it is okay to have players manipulating the rack.
I truly want to improve the sport of pool, maybe my way of going about it is different than others, as well as the things I consider important, but I am trying. I really am trying.
You posts are becoming more childish and out of touch with reality at every offering. Please stop embarrassing yourself and wasting all of our time.
Im not embarassed.
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Manipulating the rack
Brian- to answer the question of rack manipulation. I don't agree with any gaffing the rack. That is why we almost exclusively use the Magic Ball Rack. It best reduces manipulation. Also why we usually use rack your own. All you can do us give yourself a good rack.
I think those are the best compromises available under the circumstances. No one will ever satisfy the purists. And it is impractical to have referees and dedicated rackets on every table. Plus when tried, the players would rather rack there own.
It is one thing to run an 8 table 48 man event - to a 300 table 7,000 person event. And then obviously the elite pro event. They all have their own challenges.
And as stated earlier, most of the complaints about pattern racking and drills is coming from people that can't run a rack - let along a package. Sorry - that is how I see it.
Mark Griffin
Me
Brian- to answer the question of rack manipulation. I don't agree with any gaffing the rack. That is why we almost exclusively use the Magic Ball Rack. It best reduces manipulation. Also why we usually use rack your own. All you can do us give yourself a good rack.
I think those are the best compromises available under the circumstances. No one will ever satisfy the purists. And it is impractical to have referees and dedicated rackets on every table. Plus when tried, the players would rather rack there own.
It is one thing to run an 8 table 48 man event - to a 300 table 7,000 person event. And then obviously the elite pro event. They all have their own challenges.
And as stated earlier, most of the complaints about pattern racking and drills is coming from people that can't run a rack - let along a package. Sorry - that is how I see it.
Mark Griffin
Me
I know Brian ... He is very sincere about improving tournament rules.
Let's all give him the opportunity to make suggestions and listen to
suggestions from others ...... without the criticism. Thank You.
I dont think I know you or him. I think its fine that he is wanting to correct a problem. I just think he could have left out the comments about pool players integrity.
Why does AZbilliards allow certain posters to repeatedly ruin what would otherwise be civil threads? I almost did not start a thread here because I have observed that threads are often polluted by posts that serve no purpose other than detract from the conversations at hand.
Again you see yourself as faultless. Should I point out your attempts to be uncivil in this discussion? What was the purpose of this "You posts are becoming more childish and out of touch with reality at every offering. Please stop embarrassing yourself and wasting all of our time." Was the purpose civil?
The way I see it, you attacked the integrity of pool players, I responded, and a discussion has resulted with both civil and uncivil remarks from both of us. You are not innocent.
It appears that you know how to write a good post, after all. You are correct, I was being uncivil. However, your the post I responded to was both childish and out of touch with reality. While it is a matter of opinion as to whether or not you were embarrassing yourself, there is no doubt that you are wasting everybody's time .
You keep saying how perfect I think I am, but I assure you, that is not the case. Since you still refuse to stand behind what you say by giving your name, your comments have no value and I will no longer respond to them. Have a nice day.
In reading your initial post, this is what I got out of it.
1) You wanted to be very clear to everyone that cheating is taking place in the racking.
2) You are going to majic rack, 9 on the spot to prevent this. You are not looking for other suggestions on how to solve the problem.
3) You are the man and you are not going to tolorate those pool players actions.
4) Pool players lack integrity and class.
You asked for responses for or to the contrary and I responded.
To summarize I said or felt like this.
1) It is certainly cheating to intentionally create gaps and other manipulations.
2) Good for you for taking action.
3) Again good for you. Its your tournament, take control, but easy on the superiority complex.
4) Blanket statements about pool players integrity or class is not wise imo and does little to serve your purpose.
p.s. giving you my name would not have changed a thing in this thread.
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I appreciate you taking the time to reply.
Thank you for answering my question about rack manipulation, I know it is a contentious point and given your position in the industry, I would have understood if you had declined to answer.
You mentioned pattern racking again, no doubt you hear a lot of complaints. I agree that most of the complaints about pattern racking and drills come from people that can't run a rack-let alone a package. That particular group makes up a large percentage of my customer base though, so it would be rather foolish of me to ignore what they have to say.
However, some pros do complain(or did, before they were labeled whiners), which would lend some credence to the others complaints.
I would be a fool to pass up an opportunity to have someone with so much experience and stature in the industry answer a question I have asked many others. Out of curiosity, is there anything important in the pool world that you would like to see changed?
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Very interesting thread, while I applaud the OP's dedication to wanting to bring integrity to his tournaments I think the generalization that all players lack integrity is troubling. He mentions hustling in one post & there are many that hold the belief on that subject that an honest man can't be hustled & there is truth in that. If you represent your speed to be less than it is to entice another player in some would say you lack integrity. Others could point out that the person you enticed into the game lacked integrity for attempting to take advantage & capitalize on what he perceived your speed to be only to have his avarice lead him into the trap when the game is on and the first player comes off the stall, so this could just be semantics.
In regards to rack mechanics which is what the OP originally started talking about in the beginning of the thread I'll tend to agree that isn't semantics, that's cheating. I'm not a fan of magic racks, I believe good racks like a delta 13 should be utilized along with a neutral racker. Not a fan of the 9 on the spot either. If an honest rack is placed correctly by a neutral racker supplied by the TD then there are no shenanigans so there's no reason to change where the balls have always been racked, with the 1 on the spot.
I've seen integrity in pool, I posted a reply to a thread once on favorite pool stories where I related a match I saw in the Delaware state 9 ball championship where I saw a relative unknown be taunted by Ginky & this guy came to the table and tore off several racks banking balls and getting out from everywhere & at hill hill he broke & made several balls, the cue ball went straight up into the air after hitting the rack and as it descended to the table it barely, just barely glanced off his shaft which was a foul & he called it on himself, no one saw it but him, Ginky told him he hadn't seen it & told the guy to continue to shoot but the player was adamant that he'd fouled & turned the table over & Ginky ran out to close the match. I related how all everyone could talk about was the display of firepower this guy had brought forth to bring the match to hill hill & how what had stayed with me was him calling that foul on himself, integrity .
In regards to rack mechanics which is what the OP originally started talking about in the beginning of the thread I'll tend to agree that isn't semantics, that's cheating. I'm not a fan of magic racks, I believe good racks like a delta 13 should be utilized along with a neutral racker. Not a fan of the 9 on the spot either. If an honest rack is placed correctly by a neutral racker supplied by the TD then there are no shenanigans so there's no reason to change where the balls have always been racked, with the 1 on the spot.
I've seen integrity in pool, I posted a reply to a thread once on favorite pool stories where I related a match I saw in the Delaware state 9 ball championship where I saw a relative unknown be taunted by Ginky & this guy came to the table and tore off several racks banking balls and getting out from everywhere & at hill hill he broke & made several balls, the cue ball went straight up into the air after hitting the rack and as it descended to the table it barely, just barely glanced off his shaft which was a foul & he called it on himself, no one saw it but him, Ginky told him he hadn't seen it & told the guy to continue to shoot but the player was adamant that he'd fouled & turned the table over & Ginky ran out to close the match. I related how all everyone could talk about was the display of firepower this guy had brought forth to bring the match to hill hill & how what had stayed with me was him calling that foul on himself, integrity .
The Meucci!
Come on the Meucci is so warped it went like a boomerang and he stuck Himself between the eyes!
Come on the Meucci is so warped it went like a boomerang and he stuck Himself between the eyes!