Getting money back into the sport - What is currently being done?

[DJ14.1]

Alot is always being said about improving pool / fixing pool / bringing more exposure etc. etc. Simply put, the lack of money in the sport is embarrassing. World class players having to play for each others entry fee money with a few pennies added is a terrible shame, but seemingly too easily accepted these days.

Getting money back into pool we know is about getting it back on real TV, getting the demand back to make that happen, generating sponsorship with sizable dollars, etc.

My question is, is anything currently being done to make this happen? If so, what is being done, and who are the people doing it? Or, hate to even ask, but has the industry just waved the white flag and surrendered on this?

From a financial standpoint, modern pool is almost like a failing business plan. My intent isn't to start another "How the heck do we fix it" thread, but rather a "What is being done" thread. Who is plugged into the current scene well enough to know? Is there even a plan?

 

[Kid Dynomite]

Short answer is NO!

 

[Tramp Steamer]

None, that I'm aware of.
The only way that I can think of that might work, regarding a pro tour with nationwide television coverage, would be to sell the idea to sponsors. But then that's been the problem all along, hasn't it?

 

[DJ14.1]

Yupper @Tramp Steamer. It'd be quite disturbing if it's not even being worked on. And I hate listening to those "it's not possible" people. It might just need to be hit from a different angle by some sharp people.

Look at the explosion of the TV coverage of poker. I bet 20 years ago, not many people saw that one coming. And like poker, pool is a great game played by alot of people, with great longevity.

Basically, I have a hard time believing that it's not possible to get more money, real money, into this sport. So let's get some intelligent people that really care in the right places and get to work.

Ironic that everybody bickers over the small stuff like rules, different tours, whether it's ok to split the finals money, etc etc..... But when I ask about the BIG stuff like this (my opinion granted), not much positive feedback or even evidence of effort being made. How is it that so much focus and attention gets paid to details that have relatively little impact to our sport, and so little to this?

I don't have the answers, only some ideas. And I truly hope that I'm wrong and effort really is being made. But I've been in the game long enough to care, and have seen it from the perspective of other sports. We have to get to work and grow the size of the pie instead of chopping up and squabbling over this tiny one that exists today.

 

[CJ Wiley]

it's just a matter of time, the game will not be held back much longer

Alot is always being said about improving pool / fixing pool / bringing more exposure etc. etc. Simply put, the lack of money in the sport is embarrassing. World class players having to play for each others entry fee money with a few pennies added is a terrible shame, but seemingly too easily accepted these days.

Getting money back into pool we know is about getting it back on real TV, getting the demand back to make that happen, generating sponsorship with sizable dollars, etc.

My question is, is anything currently being done to make this happen? If so, what is being done, and who are the people doing it? Or, hate to even ask, but has the industry just waved the white flag and surrendered on this?

From a financial standpoint, modern pool is almost like a failing business plan. My intent isn't to start another "How the heck do we fix it" thread, but rather a "What is being done" thread. Who is plugged into the current scene well enough to know? Is there even a plan?

Yes, there's some exciting things happening that will change pool in a substantial way. More info will be released as we get closer to launching this project, thanks for asking.

Play Well, it's just a matter of time, the game will not be held back much longer.

 

[Ty Arnold]

Cj I really hope your talking about either coverage for men's pool consistently again on ESPN or a big time Hollywood movie a la Color Of Money 2. I'm sure you would be interested in promoting either of those.

 

[Colonel]

What I've always found disconcerting is the little input of sponsor money from WITHIN the sport. Everyone speaks of attracting sponsors & how this or that keeps corporate sponsorship dollars away, what about the pool industry, PoolDawg, Seyberts, Ozone and the plethora of billiard supply warehouses and all of the companies whose supplies they sell? There is some but it's limited with the companies that do it seems they want to be the sole sponsor of whatever it is they're selling.

For instance Mezz sponsors a small tour as does OB. But you never see something with Mezz & OB sponsoring together. I get it that they want to promote their products & would prefer not to sponsor something together with a rival maker but large exposure is better than just regional exposure & if they really believe in their products then just out it out there & let the players decide, you shouldn't care that you're co sponsoring with a rival if the exposure is great enough. It's the mega supply warehouses that irk me. They sell phenomenal amounts of equipment from a myriad of manufacturers to the league & bar crowd & give little back. Pool is small, dying, if it dies then how much will any of them sell of their products? They should have enough business acumen to calculate what 100% of 0 is. Hell I'd like to know how many millions are made just in the sale of freaking LD shafts alone to those that can't figure out deflection.

We need a national tour with solid sponsorship and TV. Perhaps all of these companies should consider that if this occurred and exposure of this grows the game then it stands to reason their business grows also. We need a consortium of these businesses, all of them pooling the resources geared towards the common goal of 1 large nationwide tour, not a dozen small regional ones. To stop infighting in their own interest.

Case in point, Diamond. Brunswick abandoned the industry, Diamond stepped in but petty crap dilutes it. Aramith balls were always the standard but they make Centennial balls for Brunswick so Diamond goes with Cyclop now in their events shoving balls nobody wants down our throats because of Aramiths relation to Brunswick. All of these companies and I mean all of them need to put aside their rival differences and form a consortium to sponsor 1 big tour, a real one. Is someone going to tell me that if you took every, table, cloth, chalk, production cues, LD shafts, cases manufacturer & combined them together with all of the billiard supply warehouses that sell all of this stuff & combined their resources together towards 1 common goal that they couldn't afford it? Really? Again it doesn't take long to calculate what 100% of 0 is, which is what they have if this sport dies.

 

[DJ14.1]

What I've always found disconcerting is the little input of sponsor money from WITHIN the sport. Everyone speaks of attracting sponsors & how this or that keeps corporate sponsorship dollars away, what about the pool industry, PoolDawg, Seyberts, Ozone and the plethora of billiard supply warehouses and all of the companies whose supplies they sell? There is some but it's limited with the companies that do it seems they want to be the sole sponsor of whatever it is they're selling

@Colonel: Just replying to this part, but aren't those companies pretty small to be kicking in sponsorship dollars? I'm sure they would help, but could they really make a significant impact? Be nice to see from a loyalty standpoint, but when we see bigboy companies like Lexus or Templeton backing tennis, I just can't see how companies in the billiard industry could contribute enough money to give big tournament winners the $500k they deserve instead of the $5k-$10k they actually get.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

I don't know if anything is being done but nothing has been done, that's for sure.

 

[david(tx)]

Alot is always being said about improving pool / fixing pool / bringing more exposure etc. etc. Simply put, the lack of money in the sport is embarrassing. World class players having to play for each others entry fee money with a few pennies added is a terrible shame, but seemingly too easily accepted these days.

Getting money back into pool we know is about getting it back on real TV, getting the demand back to make that happen, generating sponsorship with sizable dollars, etc.

My question is, is anything currently being done to make this happen? If so, what is being done, and who are the people doing it? Or, hate to even ask, but has the industry just waved the white flag and surrendered on this?

From a financial standpoint, modern pool is almost like a failing business plan. My intent isn't to start another "How the heck do we fix it" thread, but rather a "What is being done" thread. Who is plugged into the current scene well enough to know? Is there even a plan?

Just a question but who exactly is the industry ? Is it like them ? or they ?Couple of years ago someone from Arizona was wanting to know if anyone was putting together some AZB members tournies while BCA event was going on in Nevada because Mark Griffin made some tables available to be used when the BCA events weren't needing them.

He thought it would be a great idea.When someone suggested he do it he hemmed and hawed and said he didn't have the time . What he wanted was to get drunk and shoot pool while someone else did the leg work. I believe a guy from Oklahoma put some things together.

There is no industry , just individuals and companies trying to make a dollar , but they don't have the money to fund pro pool , because if they could it would already be happening.

 

[trob]

[
Because pool companies barely make enough to survive. You think there sitting on a mountain of cash that they can throw away? Pool hasn't had a sponsor with large amounts of disposable cash since camel pulled out of everything. Unless these companies feel like they can get the bang for there buck advertising at pool events it's not going to happen. Without a TV contract you have no sponsors. Its not really complicated ...

QUOTE=Colonel;5149619]What I've always found disconcerting is the little input of sponsor money from WITHIN the sport. Everyone speaks of attracting sponsors & how this or that keeps corporate sponsorship dollars away, what about the pool industry, PoolDawg, Seyberts, Ozone and the plethora of billiard supply warehouses and all of the companies whose supplies they sell? There is some but it's limited with the companies that do it seems they want to be the sole sponsor of whatever it is they're selling.

For instance Mezz sponsors a small tour as does OB. But you never see something with Mezz & OB sponsoring together. I get it that they want to promote their products & would prefer not to sponsor something together with a rival maker but large exposure is better than just regional exposure & if they really believe in their products then just out it out there & let the players decide, you shouldn't care that you're co sponsoring with a rival if the exposure is great enough. It's the mega supply warehouses that irk me. They sell phenomenal amounts of equipment from a myriad of manufacturers to the league & bar crowd & give little back. Pool is small, dying, if it dies then how much will any of them sell of their products? They should have enough business acumen to calculate what 100% of 0 is. Hell I'd like to know how many millions are made just in the sale of freaking LD shafts alone to those that can't figure out deflection.

We need a national tour with solid sponsorship and TV. Perhaps all of these companies should consider that if this occurred and exposure of this grows the game then it stands to reason their business grows also. We need a consortium of these businesses, all of them pooling the resources geared towards the common goal of 1 large nationwide tour, not a dozen small regional ones. To stop infighting in their own interest.

Case in point, Diamond. Brunswick abandoned the industry, Diamond stepped in but petty crap dilutes it. Aramith balls were always the standard but they make Centennial balls for Brunswick so Diamond goes with Cyclop now in their events shoving balls nobody wants down our throats because of Aramiths relation to Brunswick. All of these companies and I mean all of them need to put aside their rival differences and form a consortium to sponsor 1 big tour, a real one. Is someone going to tell me that if you took every, table, cloth, chalk, production cues, LD shafts, cases manufacturer & combined them together with all of the billiard supply warehouses that sell all of this stuff & combined their resources together towards 1 common goal that they couldn't afford it? Really? Again it doesn't take long to calculate what 100% of 0 is, which is what they have if this sport dies.[/QUOTE]

 

[Colonel]

@Colonel: Just replying to this part, but aren't those companies pretty small to be kicking in sponsorship dollars? I'm sure they would help, but could they really make a significant impact? Be nice to see from a loyalty standpoint, but when we see bigboy companies like Lexus or Templeton backing tennis, I just can't see how companies in the billiard industry could contribute enough money to give big tournament winners the $500k they deserve instead of the $5k-$10k they actually get.

Not trying to compare them with Lexus or other major corporate sponsors & not saying 500k vs 5-10k. You have to crawl before walk.

Yes they are small, but as I stated in my post if you could get all of the manufacturers & supply warehouses that sell these manufacturers goods to form a consortium & I mean all of them, would it be fair to say they could sponsor say 10 75k added events a year on one tour, add in the DCC & the U.S. Open that already exist that would make it an even 12 events. So we're talking 900k total sponsorship divided amongst them all. Is this golf or tennis money? No it isn't but it's a solid start that if all of them pooled together this figure seems doable.

Let the Consortium develop a players association. Then develop a simple golf style dress code, Polo style shirt with tour logo, khakis or slacks, appropriate footwear, etc so there is a "uniform". Have these 12 events in 12 different cities, 2 in the DCC & Open already established, limit the field to 64 of the best players, professionally tape all matches with commentary IE AccuStats with a selected pair of commentators that is consistent & knowledgeable. Perhaps the 1st year offer this prepackaged deal to say ESPN to air which if it's all done & paid for I can't see them turning down a prepackaged full tour season of programming to get out there for the public to watch asking nothing of them but to promote the hell out it to get viewership.

Now is this golf or golf $ or the prestigious PGA tour, no it's not. What it is is a start. A tour, a players association of the 64 best players in the world, a common dress code, with 1 event a month to span the course of a year so that there is constant programming that the public can follow like a "season" of any other sport culminating in a points style championship for the top 16 at the end of the "season".

To some this may seem small, but it's better than anything currently available. It's an entity that could be marketed. Will it work? I don't know, it would be all about how it's promoted but 1 concerted effort, 1 tour done like this at least puts it out there to be seen. This has to be better than a gazillion little entities like we currently have with regional tours by Mezz, OB, Predator, etc that garner no attention. It requires them all banding together including the players, to use all available resources towards the creation of something that while small at its start could be put forth to develop public interest and viewership to revive this sport & save it. Promoted properly & nurtured it could grow to what we'd all like to see it become. If it could be put out there & interest developed then perhaps corporate sponsorship would follow suit allowing first more money & exposure & then as it grows expansion from 64 to 128 players formulating what pool has never really had for any period of a time, a real "Pro Tour".

 

[dardusm]

It's a difficult question that AZ has tried to answer in numerous threads. I've always thought that the quick solution is to band together current tournaments into a quasi tour with points and a players organization. CSI events, Turning Stone, US Open 9 ball, and others would comprise this "tour". The problem is too many working parts to make it work. Pool isn't dead it's just in a transition phase. There are several regional events such as the Joss tour, Mezz, Diamond, Midwest, etc.

I think it's going to take someone with vision, finances, and love of the sport/game to develop a tour and build it from the ground up. A guardian angel. Otherwise, the politics is just too tricky in the current environment. I still believe a tour could be developed and make money with the right person such as snooker/darts has with Barry Hearn in England.

 

[Kid Dynomite]

I remember the first BCA Junior tournaments were funded by ALL members in a special fund.

The need to advance the sport benefits the entire industry? Pooling their money can get a pool movie made or get pool back on ESPN!

None of the companies can do it alone. So, it just does not happen because they ALL want to call the shots for their dime!

Kd

 

[macguy]

Alot is always being said about improving pool / fixing pool / bringing more exposure etc. etc. Simply put, the lack of money in the sport is embarrassing. World class players having to play for each others entry fee money with a few pennies added is a terrible shame, but seemingly too easily accepted these days.

Getting money back into pool we know is about getting it back on real TV, getting the demand back to make that happen, generating sponsorship with sizable dollars, etc.

My question is, is anything currently being done to make this happen? If so, what is being done, and who are the people doing it? Or, hate to even ask, but has the industry just waved the white flag and surrendered on this?

From a financial standpoint, modern pool is almost like a failing business plan. My intent isn't to start another "How the heck do we fix it" thread, but rather a "What is being done" thread. Who is plugged into the current scene well enough to know? Is there even a plan?

I don't know that there ever was any real money in the sport to get back to. I am not sure pro pool is really a viable product. What demand is there for it? Pool is never going to be on TV on any regular basis. There is just no market for it.

 

[RBC]

While I would love to see things get better, I'm not sure that what you're thinking is very likely.

There is money in our sport, but it's not as much as most ardent pool players think. Also, the money that is in the sport is really in the amateur and participation side. There's just not much of an audience for televised pool. Don't get me wrong, I sure wish there was. But it's just not there.

So, if you want to grow Pro Pool, you must create an audience. Without an audience, you'll not have much support from any industry. Including the pool industry. Most of the companies like ours do spend money in promoting the sport, but it's limited as to what we can spend given that it often doesn't create much of a return. Certainly, if you want any large industry to be interested in pool, you'll have to create that audience first. Thinking that "if we just get it on TV and the audience will come in droves" just isn't going to work. It's been tried and the ratings were too low for it to continue. It's tough to get pool players to watch pool, much less non pool players.

You mentioned Poker. I can assure you that there are many big industry companies that are searching high and low for the next "Poker". I can also assure you that all of them are aware of pool, and they don't see pool as being the next big thing. Without something drastic changing, like finding an audience, it's going to be tough to get them interested.

I do believe that there is an answer though. It may not be what everyone wants to hear, but it's been proven to work and would work with pool. That answer is to grow the one thing in pool that does work, organized amateur pool. Yes, that does mean leagues, but not just leagues. It can be any kind of organized competition. From local weekly tournaments to local area series or tours. Like the Omega here in Dallas or the Lone Star Tour in Houston.

We just need lots more people who love to play for the fun of it, some good friendly competition, and even some financial competition. But the majority of the opportunity for growth is in those who want to play for recreation. That's were the $ comes from. People spending money on table time at their local rooms. People buying cues and all the related accessories. Anyone who only wants to play for free, drink water, and not feel like they need to support their local pool rooms should not be surprised when they go out of business.


Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com

 

[Baby Huey]

It's difficult to get new talent into the game. Look I own a pool room and I have trouble getting kids to play or take the game seriously. I give my new kids a very special rate to play. It costs them very little to just get them to come in and learn. The cost is $2/day with unlimited play and they get to play on Diamonds and GC 3s and play with Centennials and Super Aramith balls.I also provide free lessons.I have more seniors that play each day then kids under 18 years of age. There are just too many diversions for youngsters today and maybe it will change but I haven't seen much that could help in this area. I would like to see more pool tables available at Boys and Girls clubs and at junior recreation centers but that is also going away at an alarming rate. Pool tables take up too much space is what I'm told and they want space available for more multipurpose activities.

 

[macguy]

It's difficult to get new talent into the game. Look I own a pool room and I have trouble getting kids to play or take the game seriously. I give my new kids a very special rate to play. It costs them very little to just get them to come in and learn. The cost is $2/day with unlimited play and they get to play on Diamonds and GC 3s and play with Centennials and Super Aramith balls.I also provide free lessons.I have more seniors that play each day then kids under 18 years of age. There are just too many diversions for youngsters today and maybe it will change but I haven't seen much that could help in this area. I would like to see more pool tables available at Boys and Girls clubs and at junior recreation centers but that is also going away at an alarming rate. Pool tables take up too much space is what I'm told and they want space available for more multipurpose activities.

The truth is, pool and pool rooms are more then just a game and a place to play.
It is a sub-culture. When I was a kid getting to the pool room was far more then just playing. I loved everything about being there. We hung out and played, talked, socialized. You never wanted to go home.

Of the group a few became serious players but everyone did play.
I can't see how that can be duplicated today. I have not been in a pool room like I used to hang around in many years.

In fact, we would all probably be thrown out of most of todays pool rooms. I always like to tell this story.
My wife and I were in NY and stopped in a pool room.

It was in the afternoon and no one wan there, not one person. As my wife and I were leaving over the door was a sign,

"If you have nothing to do, don't do it here"

Why do people like this go into a business like a pool room?

 

[mikepage]

[...] Most of the companies like ours do spend money in promoting the sport, but it's limited as to what we can spend given that it often doesn't create much of a return. Certainly, if you want any large industry to be interested in pool, you'll have to create that audience first.

If there were more companies like yours the world would be a better place

[...]

I do believe that there is an answer though. It may not be what everyone wants to hear, but it's been proven to work and would work with pool. That answer is to grow the one thing in pool that does work, organized amateur pool. Yes, that does mean leagues, but not just leagues. It can be any kind of organized competition. From local weekly tournaments to local area series or tours. Like the Omega here in Dallas or the Lone Star Tour in Houston.

We just need lots more people who love to play for the fun of it, some good friendly competition, and even some financial competition. But the majority of the opportunity for growth is in those who want to play for recreation. That's were the $ comes from. People spending money on table time at their local rooms. People buying cues and all the related accessories. [...]

I agree with Royce.

What pro pool needs is organic growth. That doesn't come from a sugar daddy promoter nor from that single big sponsor everybody seems to be looking for.

Rather it comes from a rising tide from the growth of amateur pool. Amateur pool needs to grow in two ways: (1) more participation, and (2) more unity.

Amateur pool should not fund pro pool in some sort of looks-great-on-paper pyramid scheme. In fact amateur pool doesn't need explicitly to fund pro pool at all. That will take care of itself. If the number of pool-league teams in every city doubled, there would be that many more players trying to improve, that many more players looking for regional competition, and more bigger open events would just make sense.

 

[9andout]

Yes, there's some exciting things happening that will change pool in a substantial way. More info will be released as we get closer to launching this project, thanks for asking.

Play Well, it's just a matter of time, the game will not be held back much longer.

Anxiously waiting.
Pool needs to advertise also. One glaring example I use is from last year.
THE WORLD CUP OF POOL on ESPN 3. Do you think they, ESPN could run a few commercials for it on either TV or THEIR own radio stations!??:angry:
E-mailed them about this. No response.