Pool's "Best Practices"

I have only one agenda and that's to project the desire to expand our pool horizons.

Mikjary said:
The real irony is in the top quote. Projection can be your friend.

Nothing gets by here without the scratch and kick test...unless it's put out by somebody other than you, CJ.

After getting repeatedly abused by the usual suspects, keeping us and our wallets safe from your mystically incorrect posts, don't be unprofessional and immature like they are with a negative retort. How many of them nip at your heels on every post? :D

If you had a clue about this game, you'd just shut up and read their posts. You may learn something and what it takes to be a real world champion. I'd like to be in the room when that discussion comes up about your credentials. It's much safer behind a keyboard. Has anybody ever told you to your face you're not a world champion? Takes balls, doesn't it? :thumbup: View attachment 381380

Best,
Mike
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The main thing I've been questioned on (face to face) is why I only won the ESPN Championship Tournaments once when I was in the finals three years in a row. ;)

Having them "nip at my heels," is really just a sign of what's going on in their own heads. I can only imagine the "self criticism" they must be going through.

I have only one agenda and that's to project the desire to expand our pool horizons. This takes practice, experimentation (which requires an open mind) and determination. With these three qualities in place we can play better every day, in every way......as long as we except that The Game is the teacher.

Aloha Everyone, Enjoy the Remainder of your Weekend.
 
no "pendulum stroke" is perfect - the human body's not designed for pool

DTL said:
Not every pendulum stroke is perfect. Some will have a hair of elbow movement on full backswing (slightly down)........but a good one will return to the original set point on the forward stroke. And some will drop a bit after contact (which is OK), esp with power shots that have a long follow through. A lot of good pendulum strokes will have a smidgen of piston to it......does that mean it's not a pendulum stroke anymore? Who cares.

Here's a couple good ones. One by Judd Trump and 3 by Hunter Lombardo.

http://www.tubechop.com/watch/5695282

http://www.tubechop.com/watch/5695378
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There's no "pendulum stroke" that's perfect.

164px-Pendulum_90_degree.gif
 
alstl said:
What would be an example of a pendulum stroke?
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As Bob Jewett says, it's useful to start with the goal. The main goal of a pendulum stroke is to keep the elbow still until contact with the CB, moving only the forearm/hand in a vertical plane.

What happens after contact is less important, unless it affects what comes before. For instance, a normal follow through, maybe even with a dropping elbow for harder shots, is helpful to avoid "braking" too soon and throwing the pre-contact stroke off line.

pj
chgo
 
there's some coil to release the cue to the "pin" point of aim on the cue ball.

DTL said:
True........and that's a good thing. It's the opening of the grip hand, allowing the back fingers to come off the cue on full back swing that lessens the arc. This helps keep the stick a little more level with the stroke plane (slight arc).

I was referring more to the position of the elbow.
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Sounds like it will work, however, I don't want the cue too level or I can't contact the cue ball with the edge of my tip. I see what you mean though, it has it's advantages and disadvantages. I believe it's best to have a "chambering" of the shoulder and elbow, so there's some coil to release the cue to the "pin" point of aim on the cue ball.

I've personally not heard any top players refer to their motion as a "pendulum" in any way, shape or form. I'll ask Earl Strickland this week and see what he has to say about it.

Mahalo

pendulum.jpg
 
Patrick Johnson said:
... The main goal of a pendulum stroke is to keep the elbow still until contact with the CB, moving only the forearm/hand in a vertical plane. ...
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I think the goal related to the choice of stroke is more basic than that. The goal is to hit repeatably where you are trying to hit on the cue ball.

A simple way to do that is to place the cue tip where you want to hit on the cue ball when you address the cue ball and then use a stroke that returns the tip to that spot on the power stroke.

Two simple motions that accomplish this are the so-called "pendulum" stroke in which the upper arm is motionless (until after contact) and a "piston" motion of the cue stick in which it moves along its own axis without any up-and-down rocking.
 
It's okay to admit you don't know what you don't know

DTL said:
If you want to hit the CB with the edge of your tip just go off from exact center in any direction......they're both rounded surfaces. This can be done with a level cue too. We all know that we're never exactly level due to the rails being higher than the bed of the table.

Your set up - hand near the balance point, wrist pre-cocked radially - is more conducive to a more level "pull" back and "push" forward (less pendulum-like).

* "chambering of the elbow and shoulder" - no idea what this means.....are we getting kinky? Another 90 minute lesson? :smile:.........or is this one a 5 minute quicky?
As far as the up and down movement of the elbow or left and right movement of the forearm, they are due shoulder movement. You can flex/extend the elbow without moving the shoulder, but you can't move the shoulder without also moving the elbow.

* "coil" - lets not go there, please. lol

* "pin" - if this is hitting the CB exactly where you want with the tip, this is good.

Earl's a genius.......but he may not know the answer. Ask nearly every player on the Snooker Tour.
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It's okay to admit you don't know what you don't know. If you knew what I know you would play like I do......however......let's not go there, please. LoL

I have no idea what caliber of player you are, although you're probably (as Jimmy Mataya would say) "a darn good little shooter". :groucho:

In all fairness, when discussing things that are "outside the norm" it usually takes a variety or combination of explanations before it's truly understood. I take it for granted since, in person I have a mental list of 3 themes of explanations - variations of specific details that are proven (in my experience) to get someone in the "understanding mode" quickly..

I know my grip has been questioned and talked about, and I did go over it in my original 'Ultimate Pool Secrets' using a sword - I resisted going into great detail. The most important component of a "good grip" is acceleration, and the ability to feel the cue ball/tip connection at impact. "the moment of truth is the moment of impact in billiards"

Concerning firmness: I practice on both ends of the spectrum in this respect. I will squeeze the cue, cock it and play with a firm grip and sometimes I only use two fingers (using thumb/first two fingers) with a very light grip pressure if I'm working on Touch/Finesse/Feel shots.

I play with a firm, controlled pressure, that gives {ME} the ideal balance between power and touch. I use the same pressure when playing golf or tennis as well and played all three games at the same time for several years when in my early teenage years (although I played golf left handed).

I cock my wrist slightly on all shots, just less on finesse or slow rolled shots, and more on "power shots". My main objective, in Buddy Hall fashion is to hit most shots the same speed and as in my example cock up to eye level from my hip. Then I take my practice stokes BEFORE I get down on the shot, not after.

My main objective is to cock my wrist/fingers in such a way to create a track/slot that makes it virtually impossible to not hit the cue ball straight.

Yes, the stroke (for me) is a pushing motion that accelerates the tip EXACTLY at the surface of the cue ball. When players on here talk about pulling the cue they lose me because I can't relate to that at all. Notice I don't tell them they are full of "BS", "crazy", "trying to con people" "say they are talking nonsense", I JUST simply am "quietly confused" and can't relate to why they play in that manner.

The TOUCH of Inside technique I have explained in many ways. First off, I do not spin the cue ball, I just "cue it" to the inside. This creates a situation that slightly overcuts the object ball. When combined with this "Wrist/Finger Stroke" it is DEADLY ACCURATE and expands the Pocket Zone by an impressive margin. Someone that aims at the center of the pocket and uses center ball can't win with the 5/7 playing 9 Ball.

I'm not boasting, just stating a fact, when you learn to use the 3 Part Pocket System and look at the pocket as a Zone (and learn to pre set your hand so you hit the cue ball straight every time), the Game changes and becomes possible to play without error for hours at a time.

I'm not claiming to be "better" than the players {on this Forum} that don't understand my techniques, I'm simply playing a different Game than they are.

So share our techniques in any way you can, just be aware that they won't be for everyone and there will always be "scoffers" that dislike anything new. This is not their fault, it's human nature and they are human after all. ;) The Game is our Teacher
 
Bob Jewett said:
I think the goal related to the choice of stroke is more basic than that. The goal is to hit repeatably where you are trying to hit on the cue ball.

A simple way to do that is to place the cue tip where you want to hit on the cue ball when you address the cue ball and then use a stroke that returns the tip to that spot on the power stroke.

Two simple motions that accomplish this are the so-called "pendulum" stroke in which the upper arm is motionless (until after contact) and a "piston" motion of the cue stick in which it moves along its own axis without any up-and-down rocking.
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Sir,

I earlier last week spoke well of you in private. I'd like to pay you the compliment here now in public.

The way I said it in private in a casual conversation was just to say that you seem to be very much on the up & up. By that, I mean that you seem to be balanced & open minded & do not seem to have ulterior motives. I don't know your entire history but to me you seem to be more of 'player' than most. Sort of along the lines of Ms. Crimi.

I wish I could have just given you 3 thumbs up here & left it at that but I have a few of caveats.

That said, I will add that IMO, a full pendulum swing requires a perfect set up & a grip that will allow it to function as intended. I see a number of players, rather many, that are trying to use a full pendulum stroke but the grip that they are using is not conducive & hence they are stuck in a bit of a rut. So...to me that advocating of the 'pendulum stroke' that is so prevalent here on AZB may actually be doing some rather great harm as it is almost never fully describe here on a free web site. Many hear about it here & then go out & try to implement it but not in a proper manner with a connection to the cue that would allow it to function as intended.

To me, a set up that bottoms out a bit early followed by the finish of a piston stroke is a better stroke (Piston J) with which to play especially given a large table & other obstacles that can rather often inhibit a perfect set up for a full pendulum swing. Also to me, the Piston J stroke can accommodate a wider array of connections to the cue.

I realize that I am talking about a bit more than what you were directing your comments. But actually playing the game is what it is about & not just making a stroke in a perfect situation.

Again, My Compliments & Best Wishes to You & Yours,
Rick

PS To me, if any one reading does not already know, the full piston stroke where the cue & tip move 'straight' in both directions would be the best stroke IMO. That said, it may not be, for a certain individual if that individual can not execute it. I also believe that one should strive to do what is best before settling on less.

PPS I don't remember what rather prominent golf instructor said the following but he said, 'I may not be able to build the swing of a Championship Winner, but...if I am not careful, I can certainly ruin one'.' Just some food for thought.
 
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Bob Jewett said:
I think the goal related to the choice of stroke is more basic than that. The goal is to hit repeatably where you are trying to hit on the cue ball.
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Yes, I described the goal of a pendulum stroke in particular (that's what was asked).

A simple way to do that is to place the cue tip where you want to hit on the cue ball when you address the cue ball and then use a stroke that returns the tip to that spot on the power stroke.
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I'd add that this is only as simple to do as the stroke you choose to do it with.

Two simple motions that accomplish this are the so-called "pendulum" stroke in which the upper arm is motionless (until after contact) and a "piston" motion of the cue stick in which it moves along its own axis without any up-and-down rocking.
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I think it can be confusing to call both of these simple motions, especially in a discussion of stroke. Yes, they're both simple motions of the stick, but only one of them is accomplished with a simple arm motion - the pendulum stroke.

pj
chgo
 
Bob Jewett said:
Normally "pull" and "push" refer to where the load is and where the force is applied. You seem to be defining it elsewise. Why?
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The orientation of the load has nothing to do with the type of motion you are making with your body.

If I do a biceps curl it is a pulling motion.

If I do a triceps extension it is a pushing motion.

Using your logic the push/pull motion is somehow reversed depending on where the load is. So if I am curling a dumbbell it is a pull but if I were to put the load under my hand and attach the dumbbell to a string my curling motion now becomes a push somehow?

Here's a video of a dumbbell kickback being performed which is the same movement as the backswing in pool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJzCVgtnRSk#t=22

You can walk into any gym on earth and ask 100 people if this is a push or a pull motion and unless they have zero knowledge of biomechanics all 100 will say it's a push.
 
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CJ Wiley said:
...In all fairness, when discussing things that are "outside the norm" it usually takes a variety or combination of explanations before it's truly understood. I take it for granted since, in person I have a mental list of 3 themes of explanations - variations of specific details that are proven (in my experience) to get someone in the "understanding mode" quickly..

I know my grip has been questioned and talked about, and I did go over it in my original 'Ultimate Pool Secrets' using a sword - I resisted going into great detail. The most important component of a "good grip" is acceleration, and the ability to feel the cue ball/tip connection at impact. "the moment of truth is the moment of impact in billiards"

Concerning firmness: I practice on both ends of the spectrum in this respect. I will squeeze the cue, cock it and play with a firm grip and sometimes I only use two fingers (using thumb/first two fingers) with a very light grip pressure if I'm working on Touch/Finesse/Feel shots.

I play with a firm, controlled pressure, that gives {ME} the ideal balance between power and touch. I use the same pressure when playing golf or tennis as well and played all three games at the same time for several years when in my early teenage years (although I played golf left handed).

I cock my wrist slightly on all shots, just less on finesse or slow rolled shots, and more on "power shots". My main objective, in Buddy Hall fashion is to hit most shots the same speed and as in my example cock up to eye level from my hip. Then I take my practice stokes BEFORE I get down on the shot, not after.

My main objective is to cock my wrist/fingers in such a way to create a track/slot that makes it virtually impossible to not hit the cue ball straight.

Yes, the stroke (for me) is a pushing motion that accelerates the tip EXACTLY at the surface of the cue ball. When players on here talk about pulling the cue they lose me because I can't relate to that at all. Notice I don't tell them they are full of "BS", "crazy", "trying to con people" "say they are talking nonsense", I JUST simply am "quietly confused" and can't relate to why they play in that manner.

The TOUCH of Inside technique I have explained in many ways. First off, I do not spin the cue ball, I just "cue it" to the inside. This creates a situation that slightly overcuts the object ball. When combined with this "Wrist/Finger Stroke" it is DEADLY ACCURATE and expands the Pocket Zone by an impressive margin. Someone that aims at the center of the pocket and uses center ball can't win with the 5/7 playing 9 Ball.

I'm not boasting, just stating a fact, when you learn to use the 3 Part Pocket System and look at the pocket as a Zone (and learn to pre set your hand so you hit the cue ball straight every time), the Game changes and becomes possible to play without error for hours at a time.

I'm not claiming to be "better" than the players {on this Forum} that don't understand my techniques, I'm simply playing a different Game than they are.

So share our techniques in any way you can, just be aware that they won't be for everyone and there will always be "scoffers" that dislike anything new. This is not their fault, it's human nature and they are human after all. ;) The Game is our Teacher
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Good Post, CJ.

I hope I can compliment you without receiving a host of derogatory insinuations & slurs, if not down right insults.

But if not, so be it. As you've said, it is more of a projection of & on themselves than it is on me.

All the Best 2 You & Yours & Best of Luck with 'The Project',
Rick

PS Thanks again for suffering the slings & arrows to try to help others & for trying to Give Back to The Game.
 
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CJ Wiley said:
It's okay to admit you don't know what you don't know. ............................................................................
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If you really believed that, you wouldn't post pictures mocking things that you don't know about. Such as what a pendulum stroke is, or that one can hit off-center of the cb without putting any spin on it, or that hitting the cb above center with the bottom of the tip is a special technique that takes time to learn, ect. ect.
 
Neil said:
If you really believed that, you wouldn't post pictures mocking things that you don't know about. Such as what a pendulum stroke is, or that one can hit off-center of the cb without putting any spin on it, or that hitting the cb above center with the bottom of the tip is a special technique that takes time to learn, ect. ect.
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What makes you think you can't hit the OB off center without spinning it?
TOI is the real deal
 
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