Pool's "Best Practices"

[Tony_in_MD]

Uncalled for, would you like me to judge your abilities as a teacher?

I am MORE than qualified to do that.

It's seems like you guys trying to teach pool that can't really play pool....ironic isn't it?

 

[CJ Wiley]

How much do you play, teach, or compete? Never?

Rick, your nonsensical lies are what drive so many away on here. NOTHING is said is false, and everyone except CJ knows it. Here's your quote- "To make unequivocal conclusions from these types of videos, especially concerning an object that is moving that fast on such a relatively low frame per second system & especially while trying to catch what is so often said to be only .001 of a second, is chocked full of invalidity."

YOU said it can't be relied on. You also alluded to some crap claim about it can't hold up in court just because it's a video. Which is obvious nonsense. Videos are used all the time to convict people.

You use the word "seem" to give you an out simply because you won't admit to what he is obviously doing. The only one discredited here is you, and that is because you can't admit to what even you see.

You will reach to unfathomable depths to discredit any one on here that you put in the " instructor or science" camps, with the two known exceptions being Fran and CJ.

Rather than simply stating what you actually see, that he is not dropping his elbow before contact, and that he does hit the cb with follow, and we all learn from it, you have to go off on another of your discredit the messenger rants. You learn nothing that way, only continue to cause dissent and angst on here which drives people away.

The elbow actually starts the forward motion, like Ronnie O'Sullivan says, it's like hitting the cue ball with your elbow (because it starts the motion).

If we're wrong why do you get so upset trying to defend your opinions?

How much do you play, teach, or compete? Never? Or do you play on your 7' Bar Table in your basement and consider yourself well seasoned?

Face it, everyone looks different playing this game (although there are common denominators), it's best to understand how to deal with this on a level that will help anyone and everyone improve.

 

[Mikjary]

Mr MASAYOSHI

Don’t you know that posting videos like that is sacrilegious on here?

Earl aiming low, delivering a forward cue ball with extreme power and extreme spin, and clearing the cue up.

I think I saw an elbow drop, maybe I didn't, I am pretty sure he did drop the elbow on the way in, especially since he cleared the cue stick up, he may have hinged the wrist. OMG his stick went up in the air, call the pool police. I almost want to bet he hit that inside the cue ball, possibly a swipe.

He may have climbed the ladder, possibly an upstroke, OMG an upstroke and a swipe. Video was grainy, maybe I was seeing things. I can't believe he sits in his stance, Imagine Earl Strickland does not have a proper stance. It looks like he did a few things right, he made the ball, the juice grabbed well.

I may have witnessed the extended stroke and completion, his cue was almost to the side pocket. I have to watch it another 23 million times to make sure I witnessed this. Earl needs lessons, that was wrong in so many ways.

Sincerely:SS

We're still in the first stage, but I think we may have turned a corner toward stage 2. :grin: Let's see how this goes.

Best,
Mike

 

[Patrick Johnson]

CJ Wiley:
It's seems like you guys trying to teach pool that can't really play pool

CJ Wiley:
How much do you play, teach, or compete? Never?

This kinda stuff isn't necessary or appropriate, especially from a pro trying to style himself as an ambassador for the sport. You get some flack here, but it's not without reason. The professional (and profitable) thing to do would be to listen to some of it.

pj
chgo

 

[Neil]

The elbow actually starts the forward motion, like Ronnie O'Sullivan says, it's like hitting the cue ball with your elbow (because it starts the motion).

If we're wrong why do you get so upset trying to defend your opinions?

How much do you play, teach, or compete? Never? Or do you play on your 7' Bar Table in your basement and consider yourself well seasoned?

Face it, everyone looks different playing this game (although there are common denominators), it's best to understand how to deal with this on a level that will help anyone and everyone improve.

You have no clue to what is even being discussed, do you?

 

[Neil]

The elbow actually starts the forward motion, like Ronnie O'Sullivan says, it's like hitting the cue ball with your elbow (because it starts the motion).

If we're wrong why do you get so upset trying to defend your opinions?

How much do you play, teach, or compete? Never? Or do you play on your 7' Bar Table in your basement and consider yourself well seasoned?

Face it, everyone looks different playing this game (although there are common denominators), it's best to understand how to deal with this on a level that will help anyone and everyone improve.

If you would take the time to actually read things, you would see that the only thing I am upset about is the nonsense on here. If someone wants to play with their elbow dropping, fine. No one is saying that is inherently wrong. (except those putting words into others mouths)

Second, your put-downs and insults are really showcasing who you really are. Not a nice picture you put out there. And, yes, I stooped to some myself, after YOU and english put it out there first. I at least showed my point of view, and the reasoning behind it. More than either of you two have done. All you two do is insult instead of debating civilly or show an example to make a point.

 

[DTL]

.....................

 

[SmoothStroke]

We're still in the first stage, but I think we may have turned a corner toward stage 2. :grin: Let's see how this goes.

Best,
Mike

Man has walked on the surface of the moon, there may be hope.

That group over there, feed them them gourmet food and fine wine.
The others over there, off with their heads.

Sincerely:SS

 

[Tony_in_MD]

"Hype is the Teacher"

Quote from Tonythetiger583(from the Dropping your Elbow thread): asked CJ ---> "Could you elaborate on the idea of hitting it with your elbow? I'm not sure if I'm doing it right".

Tonythetiger, it appears you never got your answer to this question from the other thread. Likely because it's just another nice catch phrase to spark peoples curiosity......baiting. Here's a chopped link below with Ronnie giving instruction to a couple young lads. When discussing the cuing action with them he taps his shoulder and says "always keep this still" and then says "always hit with the elbow".....clearly meaning simply flex the elbow which results in the forward movement of the forearm.

http://www.tubechop.com/watch/5691213

 

[ENGLISH!]

Rick, your nonsensical lies are what drive so many away on here. NOTHING is said is false, and everyone except CJ knows it. Here's your quote- "To make unequivocal conclusions from these types of videos, especially concerning an object that is moving that fast on such a relatively low frame per second system & especially while trying to catch what is so often said to be only .001 of a second, is chocked full of invalidity."

YOU said it can't be relied on. You also alluded to some crap claim about it can't hold up in court just because it's a video. Which is obvious nonsense. Videos are used all the time to convict people.

You use the word "seem" to give you an out simply because you won't admit to what he is obviously doing. The only one discredited here is you, and that is because you can't admit to what even you see.

You will reach to unfathomable depths to discredit any one on here that you put in the " instructor or science" camps, with the two known exceptions being Fran and CJ.

Rather than simply stating what you actually see, that he is not dropping his elbow before contact, and that he does hit the cb with follow, and we all learn from it, you have to go off on another of your discredit the messenger rants. You learn nothing that way, only continue to cause dissent and angst on here which drives people away.

If one does the pause play pause play of Earl's stroke I think most will see that the tip was initially rather low & when he takes the cue back for the delivery stroke that the tip certainly seems to go up & then on the follow through the tip certainly seems to go down.*

To make unequivocal conclusions from these types of videos, especially concerning an object that is moving that fast on such a relatively low frame per second system & especially while trying to catch what is so often said to be only .001 of a second, is chocked full of invalidity.

That is one reason that these types of videos are rather often found to be inadmissible in courts of law.

For about a year before Hurricane Katrina, I was selling what was one of the most up to date & highest tech such systems. So, I know a bit about them.

Best to All,
Rick

* Edit: When I quoted this post for another reason I noticed an error made when origianlly typing out my thoughts as I sort of skip ahead in my thinking. I should have added here. 'before then clearing up in the extended follow through'.

Neil,

I made no definitive statement about the shot in that video. Do you know what the word 'seems' means?

The point is that you continue to try to use blurred freeze frames from relatively slow frame per second video of rather high speed activities to make definitive statements as though they are fact & that you have proven something when that is simply not the case.

Especially when you are trying to capture what is a 1 to 2 thousandths of a second activity along with the fact that you are trying to capture & show what amounts to the 3mm contact patch & show it on screens of insufficient megapixels to even come anywhere near close to being able to do that at those distances.

Then as usual you make inaccurate statements about what others have said so as to distort the truth of matters.

I don't know if you do that intentionally or if there are other issues in play but it gets rather tiresome when you continually do it.

May Blessings Come Your Way.

PS For those interested here is the video so you can do your own 'pause play pause play' & make your own determination.

https://youtu.be/WDGvdPR_LHo

PPS Please note that the video is titled, 'Earl Strickland Equator Hit'.

Neil,

I would ignore you & not reply, but AGAIN, you make a false statement.

I did not try to discredit YOU.

I merely pointed out that what you were offering 'as proof' is extremely far from being conclusive as you purport it to be.

I'm sorry to say that you discredit yourself.

Again, May Blessings Come Your Way & May You Have a Good Evening & a Great Sunday.

The above is what I actually DID say as apposed to what Neil says that I said.

It's a shame that such as this is necessary to keep one's words from being totally misrepresented.

Best 2 All,
Rick

 

[Neil]

The above is what I actually DID say as apposed to what Neil says that I said.

It's a shame that such as this is necessary to keep one's words from being totally misrepresented.

Best 2 All,
Rick

That's funny! I quote you, you say I made it up, you repost your own quote, and then still say I misrepresent it! WOW! Do you even know what YOU posted??

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Your always misunderstood or misrepresented.

Must be tough to be you.

The above is what I actually DID say as apposed to what Neil says that I said.

It's a shame that such as this is necessary to keep one's words from being totally misrepresented.

Best 2 All,
Rick

 

[ENGLISH!]

That's funny! I quote you, you say I made it up, you repost your own quote, and then still say I misrepresent it! WOW! Do you even know what YOU posted??

Neil,

As I've said, you either misrepresent on purpose or you have other issues.

I wish Blessings to come your way asap.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Your always misunderstood or misrepresented.

Must be tough to be you.

:boring: :boring: :boring:

 

[Bob Jewett]

I see the backswing as a pushing motion and the forward stroke as a pulling motion.

Normally "pull" and "push" refer to where the load is and where the force is applied. You seem to be defining it elsewise. Why?

 

[(((Satori)))]

Normally "pull" and "push" refer to where the load is and where the force is applied. You seem to be defining it elsewise. Why?

Wow, this makes sense which in fact does make the argument confusing.

Look at the picture below where the load is being pulled up by the man pushing down.

 

[Dan White]

The elbow actually starts the forward motion, like Ronnie O'Sullivan says, it's like hitting the cue ball with your elbow (because it starts the motion).

I think this is the best advice I've seen from you, CJ. I mean that as a real compliment. This motion is not something the average player would ever think to do, but is so important to letting the cue flow through the shot without being impeded by extraneous muscle contractions. It must be a difficult idea to teach because I don't see nearly enough emphasis put on this motion by instructors.

edit: someone above posted a great link directly from O'Sullivan. Looks like a pendulum stroke to me.

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Sounds like a pendulum stroke to me.

What I cannot figure out is if you start the forward movement with your elbow and it keeps everything together as a unit, how would the wrist be delayed? It is attached to the forearm and elbow, unless the wrist is cocked backwards and released at the moment of contact.

It is also very interesting to note CJ's opinions of using video to record and analyze this technique.

Sometimes the cold hard truth of slow motion stop action video is useful in dispelling what people think they see. I for one think that is a good thing and use it.

Quote from Tonythetiger583 (from the Dropping your Elbow thread): asked CJ ---> "Could you elaborate on the idea of hitting it with your elbow? I'm not sure if I'm doing it right".

Here was CJ's response in red:

When you reach the pause in your back-swing, start the forward motion with your elbow. Good so far. This keeps everything together as a unit so the wrist is delayed slightly so it can release at the moment of contact. Right at the moment of contact??

The acceleration is essential for precision and accuracy.

I teach this technique (you teach a pendulum stroke) , however, it takes a very seasoned eye (and ear) to be able to present the student with accurate feedback. It happens so quickly you have to work with someone until they get it right (through systematic "trial and error"), then encourage them to do it respectably until they start to develop the new habit. lol

This generally takes approximately 90 minutes in most cases. 90 minutes......cha ching!


Tonythetiger, it appears you never got the real answer to your question from the other thread. It's just using Ronnie's name and the phrase "hitting with the elbow" to spark peoples curiosity......baiting.

Below is a chopped video with Ronnie giving some instruction to a couple young lads. When discussing the cuing action with them he taps his shoulder and says "always keep this still" and then says "always hit with the elbow"........clearly he was simply saying flex the elbow which results in a forward, straight movement of the cue. Looks to me like he was advocating a pendulum stroke.:wink:.............which the student executed perfectly at the end of the chopped video.

http://www.tubechop.com/watch/5691213

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Something like this??

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=5149013&postcount=76

Normally "pull" and "push" refer to where the load is and where the force is applied. You seem to be defining it elsewise. Why?

 

[(((Satori)))]

Something like this??

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=5149013&postcount=76

You are still wrong. Fran is correct when she says someone is using a pushing or pulling motion. It doesn't matter where the load is. Think of it like this. If I do a bicep curl, palms facing me... with the weight resting in front of my hands... I am pulling the weight towards me. I am pulling but the weight is being pushed. If I do the same curl with the weight hanging from a cable behind my hand... I am still pulling the weight to me but now the weight is also being pulled. In both scenarios I was pulling even though the weight was being pushed one time and pulled the other.

Again, Fran was right... Extending the arm is a pushing movement and bending is a pulling movement.