Pool's "Best Practices"

ENGLISH! said:
You first referred to me as being hypocritical.

I've refrained for quite a long time from saying it about you. Why do you think I did that?

Now you're basically saying that it's me that is acting like a kid.

A kid is a young goat. Given our past, how should I take that?

Neil, It's you that IMHO needs to sit back & reflect & take a long look at your own behavior.

I just deleted a couple of well meaning paragraphs because I saw how you most likely would take them wrong & come back firing with both Guns Blazing.

Why do you think I've often asked for Blessings to come your way? You've been in my prayers in the past & you will be again.
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Like I said, you see everything as an attack. We all know you aren't young.:D
 
Neil said:
Like I said, you see everything as an attack. We all know you aren't young.:D
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Who says I'm not young? Young is a relative term. Compared to some of the guys that walk into the halls I frequent, I am young. They actually call me youngster & sometimes they even call me kid. :wink:

But I guess you're right. I am sure I've referred to myself as old or getting old on here at least a few times.

Sleep Well.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
There are principles that are commonly accepted as "fundamental" to good play, mostly having to do with simplicity and ease of performance - so the "bible" is already largely written. My purpose is to counter the tendency to simply say "it's different for everybody" when asked for advice about how to play pool. We know more than you seem to acknowledge, and we should say so, especially to beginners.

pj
chgo
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To me, the only effective pool teachers are those who have turned away from the "what feels good" and "it's different for everybody" type of teaching that I grew up with. Those old teaching methods did not work for me. Although I never gave the game full-time attention, I still never even got to shortstop speed, as I went from one feel good poke-but-no-stroke playing style to another over the course of thirty years of occasional play.

It was Banger Class 101 for me, over and over again, because 'its' different for everybody" and "do what feels good" are poor excuses for effective modern teaching methods, and even worse as learning techniques.

My game finally improved when I began learning from instructors who advocated a set of well-defined fundamentals, to be quickly defined and learned in the classroom or other basic instruction arena, and then developed though heavy practice, instead of muddling along trying this or that during league play.

My teachers currently are people like Tor Lowry and Mark Wilson. Though I am unable to take personal lessons, I am learning a lot from them just following their fairly inexpensive published materials.

There are probably others with similar teaching materials and styles. I am certain I will never, ever again pay attention to a teacher stuck in the ancient school of 'do what feels good" and "it's different for everybody", because although there may be some truth to both those statements, they were never helpful to me.

The instruction that finally got my game in gear came from a set of basic, well defined pool fundamentals presented by advanced players, who gave clear and concise instructions, and insisted on heavy practice to get those basics into muscle memory under many conditions of play.

I applaud guys like Patrick Johnson who understand that many players, beginners and those stuck in a rut especially, need specific instruction, and also need more than a hint here and a tip there followed by the notions of "do what feels good" and "it's different for everyone".
 
CJ Wiley said:
The elbow may not "drop," although it probably moves forward. The "drop" may actually happen after contact - the important thing is to start the initial, forward, motion with the elbow.

This happens very quickly and may not be picked up on video, it keeps the arm, wrist, and fingers working together as one, synergistic, unit. This will also help the player to keep from accelerating too quickly. You can only reach the maximum speed once - it needs to be exactly at cue ball contact or you'll miss out on vital precision and speed where it's needed.
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if so, it should be able to be picked up on video. I use a smart phone to tape baseball swings and with a swing moving pretty quick, I can slow it down to see the shoulders, arms, wrists and hands doing things. I have to think it can easily be applied to pool for this elbow drop. and would make more sense than the "everyone does and nobody does it type argument"

Personally, I don't really care which, as long as the stroke is repeatable, and true, I'm not too concerned with the too much detail about it. If someone is doing it, I would not stop them (if it were slight) and if someone's natural stroke did not, I would not tell them to drop it.

Whether which is better is really up to the player. But, I agree, there needs to be a starting point, and keeping the elbow still is most likely it, and if a player develops a natural and slight drop, not to worried about it unless they are missing ;)
 
FranCrimi said:
Sure.

Two things I would change in what you wrote: Think about the motion of a bicep curl. That's a pulling motion. You are pulling from the bottom --- up. That's pretty much the stroke motion of a rigid elbow stroke.

Once the elbow drops, it becomes a pushing motion, like you described.

For definition purposes, I'm referring to the forward motion only, which is the stroke that hits the ball.

Second: The stroke where a shoulder drop takes place after impact: If the elbow is rigid to impact, then that is a pulling motion. However, once the elbow drops, it changes to a pushing motion. I think that switch from pulling to pushing may constitute two separate strokes --- one prior to impact and one after. It's just a theory I have --- not proven.
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From my experience, when I do bicep exercises it hurts my pool game .... Omaha John and Surfer Rod were big advocates of doing reverse push ups (for the triceps) for the pool stroke. This has been beneficial for me as well.
 
I believe from the time you are born, it has been predetermined how many heartbeats you will have. I won't waste them on exercise.

;)

From a former gym rat.

CJ Wiley said:
From my experience, when I do bicep exercises it hurts my pool game .... Omaha John and Surfer Rod were big advocates of doing reverse push ups (for the triceps) for the pool stroke. This has been beneficial for me as well.
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ENGLISH! said:
Yes Patrick.

I thought with all of the many years that you've been playing you would have figured that out by now.

But since all of your off center hits have been by accident, I guess I can understand why you're just starting to understand.





What a childish, immature, trolling type game that is.

You have a great day, Patrick.
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What baffles me about PJ is that he seems to know it all but his pool game tells a different story. Could it be that he listens to no one? I think I'd put some time on the table giving some of these theory's a chance instead of trying to debunk what better players are telling me
 
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