Last Cushion Question Ever....I Promise

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BasementDweller

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Alright -- I've been searching through the achives and I figured I would just start from scratch and ask a couple of questions that I'm sure have been asked a 100 times before.

I'm replacing my cushions on a AMF Grand Prix. It's a Gold Crown III knock off I believe and I've verified that it currently has the K66 profile cushions (thanks to JC). So I believe that means I can't get the Diamond cushions because it looks like those only come in K55. Is that correct?

The reason I want to replace the cushions is because they are just too slow. Using the up and down test I can only get a little over 4 cushions. I'm hoping that after swapping out the cushions I can get around 6, but that's just an estimate.

With that in mind, I'm leaning towards getting the Artemis cushions but I'm open to suggestions if any of you think there are other cushions that I'll be happy with that will give me the speed I'm looking for. Any opinions on the ProForm cushions?

I know this subject has been beaten to death but if there's anyone that's interested in going over this info one more time I would appreciate it.

Thanks for reading.
 
I am not sure if you will ever get 6 table lengths hitting the cue ball. I have Simonis 860 and Artemis cushions on re-calibrated rails, just over 2 years old and I get about 4 1/2 table lengths. My table plays about the exact same speed as a 9' Blue Label Diamond both up & down the table and around the table.
 
BasementDweller said:
Alright -- I've been searching through the achives and I figured I would just start from scratch and ask a couple of questions that I'm sure have been asked a 100 times before.

I'm replacing my cushions on a AMF Grand Prix. It's a Gold Crown III knock off I believe and I've verified that it currently has the K66 profile cushions (thanks to JC). So I believe that means I can't get the Diamond cushions because it looks like those only come in K55. Is that correct?

The reason I want to replace the cushions is because they are just too slow. Using the up and down test I can only get a little over 4 cushions. I'm hoping that after swapping out the cushions I can get around 6, but that's just an estimate.

With that in mind, I'm leaning towards getting the Artemis cushions but I'm open to suggestions if any of you think there are other cushions that I'll be happy with that will give me the speed I'm looking for. Any opinions on the ProForm cushions?

I know this subject has been beaten to death but if there's anyone that's interested in going over this info one more time I would appreciate it.

Thanks for reading.
Click to expand...
Artemis makes K66 profile cushions.
http://propooltablefelt.com/billiard_supplies.htm
 
I don't think you'll get 6 cushions up & down the table with new cushions unless you also
change to a faster 3 cushion cloth.. Your problem then will be the table will play too fast.

A little more than 4 cushions lengthwise is the WPA specification for a correct pool speed.
.
 
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Well something is not right. I've thought for a while that the WPA spec could use some updating. I just guessed at being able to get six rails with replacement cushions. I guess I'll have to do some more comparing. I do know that my table is too slow. Maybe I would be happy with 5 or 5 1/2 on that test.
 
If you have the time I have a race listed in the Ghost thread on the main page:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=385486

Watch that for a second and let me know if you think those rails are too slow. I've thought about just trying some 760 in the past but have been leaning towards swapping out the rails now.


****Edit****
Video link isn't working. There's another link listed below if interested.
 
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The only way you're going to get more than 5 times the length of the table is if the cushion's are to low, in which case the table is going to play like shit because at the same time, it's going to bank short on every bank shot.
 
It does this when I click the link in your post.

Permission Denied

Sorry, there is no video here.
Either it was deleted or it never existed in the first place. Such are the mysteries of the Internet.
 
realkingcobra said:
The only way you're going to get more than 5 times the length of the table is if the cushion's are to low, in which case the table is going to play like shit because at the same time, it's going to bank short on every bank shot.
Click to expand...

Hmmm....interesting. I definitely don't want that.

I guess I just feel like my rails aren't as lively as other tables that I play on. So I'm looking to speed mine up.

I think tonight I will video the up and down test and post it here for review.
 
I watched part of your 10 ball vs ghost, very nice shooting!!

Is it cool in the room where your table is? I think I heard the heater running and you are wearing a sweatshirt. If the room temp is cool it will cause your table to play slow, it doesn't look like it plays that bad to me though. Even if you raise the room temp when you play pool it will take hours for the table to warm up if it is normally cool in there.Our table is in our WI basement, sometimes I will put an electric space heater under the table for a couple hours before I play to warm it up some, it makes a difference.
 
fastone371 said:
I watched part of your 10 ball vs ghost, very nice shooting!!

Is it cool in the room where your table is? I think I heard the heater running and you are wearing a sweatshirt. If the room temp is cool it will cause your table to play slow, it doesn't look like it plays that bad to me though. Even if you raise the room temp when you play pool it will take hours for the table to warm up if it is normally cool in there.Our table is in our WI basement, sometimes I will put an electric space heater under the table for a couple hours before I play to warm it up some, it makes a difference.
Click to expand...

It is cool pretty much at all times and in the summer it can get a bit humid. I haven't really bothered with running a dehumidifier but I may try that this summer.

I guess I just don't know. Even when I watch my play on video the table doesn't look that slow but when I play on it or other people do they notice that it's slower than any of the local Gold Crowns.

I can also tell the difference in speed between the fast tables that you see on streams and mine just by paying attention to how hard balls are being hit.

Now I'm back on the fence. I might just try some 760 and see how that goes.
 
BasementDweller said:
It is cool pretty much at all times and in the summer it can get a bit humid. I haven't really bothered with running a dehumidifier but I may try that this summer.

I guess I just don't know. Even when I watch my play on video the table doesn't look that slow but when I play on it or other people do they notice that it's slower than any of the local Gold Crowns.

I can also tell the difference in speed between the fast tables that you see on streams and mine just by paying attention to how hard balls are being hit.

Now I'm back on the fence. I might just try some 760 and see how that goes.
Click to expand...

Cooler temperatures will stiffen the cushion's a little making them play a little slower. I didn't see any real humidity issues with the balls coming off the rails, but the cloth does look pretty well used.
 
The speed of the cushion's is controlled by two factors, 1) the type of us ions used and 2) the sub rail calibration in which the cushion's are mounted. There is a 3rd factor, that being how the rails are attached to the slate being the rail bolts and rail anchor system. Loose rail bolts will cause the rails to lose some of the energy in which the balls rebound off them.
 
realkingcobra said:
The speed of the cushion's is controlled by two factors, 1) the type of us ions used and 2) the sub rail calibration in which the cushion's are mounted. There is a 3rd factor, that being how the rails are attached to the slate being the rail bolts and rail anchor system. Loose rail bolts will cause the rails to lose some of the energy in which the balls rebound off them.
Click to expand...

1. The installer.:grin:
 
Check the rail bolts for tightness, other than that the speed of the cushion's look fine to me. Shoot a 9 rail bank around the table.
 
I'll do the 9 Rail Bank test today when I get home. I think this will tell the story. I'm guessing I will be lucky to get 7 but I've been wrong before.

I need to check the bolts for tightness as well.

I'll report back.
 
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Judging by the end to end speed, you'll probably be at about 7 1/2 banks around the table, meaning half way to the 8th bank after coming of the 7th.
 
It seems to lose a lot of speed off of rail hit #2, the first hit on the head rail. I get about 4 1/2 on my GCII but I do not think I need to quite hit at break speed, probably around 75% of break speed, I will try mine again tonite to see how it compares to yours.
 
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