What english is best for the 8-ball second ball break?

When I break the second ball, I stay away from low inside, because more often than not, the cueball becomes trapped down by the foot rail.

Center with a tip of low, works best for me. I find it easier to make a ball or two on the break more consistently with the second ball break, however this break tends to leave more clusters than a head ball break.
 
I'm not buying.

pj
chgo

i am not selling. :D

i know its hard to believe but it cost me 25.00 to watch him do it.

here is the whole story. like i said i was keeping the table pretty much the whole night. my g/f at the time was sitting up by the bar with some friends and dancing once in a while. a couple of times she come over bringing me a beer when she thought i was about therough with the one i had.

one time she come back and said....you see that old man sitting there by himself ? i said yea what about him ? she says dont play him if he challenges you. i said ...why not ? she says...he is a road player. i asked ...what is a road player ?

back story. i was just a bar banger at the time but a pretty good one and naive about the real pool world. my g/f practically grew up in a pool hall and could wipe the floor with any bar player but never did. " like most serious players she thought it was beneath her to play bar players in a bar. i never really believed her until one time i talked her into playing me and she tore me a new one. she did teach me a few things when i bugged her but she did not like playing in bars and we had no pool hall in town.

any way she proceeds to tell me what a road player is. i asked...how do you know he is one ? she said she makes it a habit to always check every one out in a bar for any one who may cause trouble. she said she noticed he had been sitting there for over 2 hours nursing 1 beer and doing nothing but watching the action on the 2 pool tables. she said no one does that unless they are looking for a mark. i said ....whats a mark? she said you...if you play him. about that time her friends called her to dance.

like i said ...when no one else got up he did. it took me about 2 1/2 hours to win about 125.00 iirc . it took him less than 5 minutes to get 30.00 of it off me. 5.00 for the 1st rack and 25.00 for 5 8 on the break in a row before i told him i quit.

i guess he thought i was drunk enough or dumb enough to keep playing and see how many he could make .

one other thing. on his way out the door he told me i had a good eye for the game. he also said if i ever learned english i would be dangerous on a pool table. i quit pool entirely about a year after that for over 20 years until i got single and started hitting bars again. i never got serious about pool until i joined league a while back and now i am too old and past my prime to be dangerous.lol
 
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On most BB tables I use one tip of low with 1/2 a tip inside, hitting the 2nd ball. On 9' a table I place CB in center of table and 1/2 tip of low hitting head ball square, trying to leave CB near center of table. Johnnyt
 
Depends on what you want.
Low inside to make the 8 on break.

Been using this technique for years on 8 ft. bar tables.
I shoot for the 3rd ball on 7 ft. tables. Blackie usually
rockets from the pack and heads for a hole.
 
It may move the 8 ball more, but at what cost? How many times is any ball made both ways? I'm betting less with the 2nd ball break, simply because CB power is wasted with the non-square hit on the OB and putting spin on the CB. Does the 8 ball go in enough times to make up for the extra dry breaks? I doubt it.

I think the stats would show that a simple head ball break with no spin gives the best chance to win.

pj
chgo

I reread the post...I guess I thought he was referring to getting the best action on the 8 ball on the break. I think he means just the best 8 ball break in general. I do agree this is not the best break for just a regular game if you aren't trying to snap the 8.

Depending on the person who is breaking though I have seen a guy break this way very well and control the cue ball making a ball almost every break. People like myself though do not have as much success this way so I usually break by drawing an imaginary line between the head ball and then the second ball from either the left or right in the very back row. I use close to center, possibly a tad above on my break if possible, because if I don't I draw too much instead of having the cue ball be close to the center of the table.
 
Under what rules is making the 8-ball on the break desirable? Does APA count that as a win?
 
I have always used low outside and I usually get good results. If I get a chance to practice my break before the the match I will break from the center of the table to see if I can make a ball before moving to the 2nd ball
 
As usual there is more than one way to skin a cat, but the same ones insist it's only right there way. This is why so many looking to learn, run from AZB confused. Johnnyt
 
If I get a chance to practice my break before the the match I will break from the center of the table to see if I can make a ball before moving to the 2nd ball

That's what I do too. I'll use the second ball break if they're not breaking well head-on, which can happen if they're difficult to freeze. Maybe because the second ball is touching 4 other balls rather than just 2, and maybe because it's closer to the center of the rack, you can get a decent break. The problem is that they go towards the side rail and then back to the pack more often than with the head-on break.
 
Back in the mid 80's I was playing in a bar for 5.00 a rack. I kept the table all night. When every one got tired of challenging me an old man who had been sitting by the table all night got up and said he would play me some.

I broke and ran a few balls and he ran the table. He then proceeded to make the 8 on the break 5 times in a row and I said I quit. I then asked him how he was making the 8 every time .

He told me ...one tip below center and a tip inside. I tried it several times but kept scratching or not making it so I never tried any more.

I do t know how many times be could have done it but 5 in a row at 5.00 a rack I was not willing to find out. He put a dent in my winnings real quick like.


I believe the reason this works is, the CB is swerving into the second ball. This is one of the reasons it works at a slightly slower speed. I've had better luck on the 8ft and BB with this, than on the 9ft.
Using just inside wont get the same results.It has to have low inside with a very slight elevation.
 
to move the 8, i go bottom outside to drag to the rail and back towards the middle. that usually gets the 8 kicking around pretty well. if i'm looking for an open spread to run out, i tend to go head on for that break. seems to leave less clusters if you can get a solid rack.
 
It may move the 8 ball more, but at what cost? How many times is any ball made both ways? I'm betting less with the 2nd ball break, simply because CB power is wasted with the non-square hit on the OB and putting spin on the CB. Does the 8 ball go in enough times to make up for the extra dry breaks? I doubt it.

I think the stats would show that a simple head ball break with no spin gives the best chance to win.

pj
chgo

Pat, it depends on who you are playing. If you spread them wide open, and don't make a ball, against a good player you just lost. With the second ball break, the balls will tend to stay more in the lower half of the table with a lot of clusters.

If you aren't making balls with a solid break, then try the second ball break IF you are a decent 14.1 player. Especially if your opponent does not play 14.1. You will have many more clusters that you will be able to deal with, while your opponent will have a lot of difficulty with the clusters should he get to the table. The odds will be more in your favor.
 
As long as I am making at least 1 ball on the break on a Valley I will stay on the head ball, sometimes straight up the center other times from all the way against the rail, but always the head ball on a Valley. The cut break tends to create a table thats tough to run out on, either with tied up balls or many balls on the rail. Typically I start in the center of the table to 1 diamond left or right, if that doesn't work I put the QB next to the rail and try a sharper angle to the rack. One thing that I have noticed that if you are coming up dry try slowing down your break speed a little. Mine is usually 21-22 MPH but many times when I slow up a little I get a better break. Valleys play slow compared to Diamonds, I think what happens at some break speeds the balls go to the rails then clump back in the center of the table and that might be why slowing down a little helps. This is on tables that have real crappy balls too so take that into consideration.
 
All of the great 8 ball players I've come across break 2nd ball. Most of them use just below center with half a tip of inside. I feel the 2nd ball break will always favor the technician over time. Seems to be more play, clusters, etc vs breaking head ball... Just mho
 
It may move the 8 ball more, but at what cost? How many times is any ball made both ways? I'm betting less with the 2nd ball break, simply because CB power is wasted with the non-square hit on the OB and putting spin on the CB. Does the 8 ball go in enough times to make up for the extra dry breaks? I doubt it.

I think the stats would show that a simple head ball break with no spin gives the best chance to win.

pj
chgo

On a 7ft table I make a ball at a high percentage rate with the 2nd ball break with low outside. Most times the CB will go to the side rail and then straight back through the rack.
Breaking from the head ball is a dead sell out if you come up dry. On the 2nd ball break I'm not concerned with trying to make the 8 as it doesn't happen often enough to worry about it. The 2nd ball break does leave clusters more often but I feel that's to my advantage most often
 
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is what Miz said in that video I mentioned and that is a right handed player should break from the left side of the kitchen, not the right side as most seem to do.

That helps make a better bridge, imho.

Jeff Livingston
 
Not having read all of the previous posts I will give my take on the second ball break.
While it's true that you will get a lot of movement on the eight with this break. A big plus when you're playing that the eight counts as a win on the break. But there is another big benefit with this break in playing with other rules.

When breaking the second ball I use outside English, mostly center ball, sometimes using draw depending on the table conditions. When breaking the second ball the cue ball is going to an area that has minimum balls in it since most balls are being pushed away from that area. By the time the cue ball hits the rail and goes toward the middle of the table there is not much movement of balls there since they have left the area. Your chances of the cue ball colliding with other balls is greatly decreased and limiting your chances of scratching.

When breaking to the head ball your cue ball is in position to be knocked around and your chances of scratching are increased. Also with the head ball break the side pockets always have an open invitation to the cue ball.
 
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is what Miz said in that video I mentioned and that is a right handed player should break from the left side of the kitchen, not the right side as most seem to do.

That helps make a better bridge, imho.

Jeff Livingston

I tend to look and see if the rack is turned to expose more of the 2nd ball. It has a bearing on which side I'll break from though I prefer the right side although I'm right handed
 
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