Even sharp points question
- Thread starter crobwin
- Start date
Because they emerge from the cue at an angle, at the very tips of the points they are almost on the surface. A little sanding will in effect erase them and they shorten. I have made cues where the points were not exactly perfect but almost. All it takes is a little careful sanding on the high points to make everything even.
Pretty much that ^. IMO, there's no excuse for noticeably uneven points. The extra work it takes to line them up can make the difference between a cue maker being perceived as high level or hack. Points are for aesthetic purposes. If the guy doesn't care enough to true up the points, where else is he slacking off? If he makes the effort to make them right, then it's a safe bet he is detail conscious everywhere else, too.
Some cue makers use razor blades to shave off some overlapping tips to make them even.
On refinish, if the re-finisher spin sands the cue, the points' tips show their real lengths .
On refinish, if the re-finisher spin sands the cue, the points' tips show their real lengths .
I do. It's attention to detail. In a refinish, if something comes off, it should be put back before the new finish is applied. That's what a competent maker would do. No matter how great a maker is, points do not always come out even. In fact, it rarely happens, especially with cues that have narrow & long points like I make. A 4-point cue with shorter, wide points is very easy to keep even because of the severe angle they're cut at. Not so easy with long, narrow points. The angle is quite shallow, making them significantly more susceptible to unevenness due to the slightest movement or off center. There's a reason you don't see many guys making cues with multiples of long points. Many more guys make 4-pointers. Even 6-pointers are greatly more "user friendly" than 8-pointers, because they have room to be wider. Anybody who cuts points, especially regularly, understands these things. A refinish should be no big issue.
Case in point, three forearms here. All have very long, very narrow points, with recut points inside of base points. Two of these forearms required minor adjustment of point tips to make them even. Can anybody see which ones? No. And if they can then I did a bad job. I'm pretty confident that the points will remain even during a refinish where the cue gets sanded, but if they do fluctuate a little, it would be nice if the guy doing the job would even them back up before applying the new finish. I would. Even if I refinish somebody else's cue, I would attempt to get the points even. It's his name on the cue, not mine, but it's a respectful courtesy as I'd hope he would do the same for me.
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What I described can't be done with badly done points. But if they are just off like a few mm's so little that you can't really see it. You can put the cue between centers and rotate it with a fixed point to check them.
Then with a little sanding you can correct them to pretty much zero. So perfect if someone doesn't know how you did it, they are astounded. They are not off even a thousandth.
Interesting, I always wondered how much getting points even was final touch up work to even things out, good to know....and that ebony nosed Sugartree looks amazing!
(I mean, all three look amazing, but I've been on a light colored wood into ebony nose kick in my cue drooling lately)
(I mean, all three look amazing, but I've been on a light colored wood into ebony nose kick in my cue drooling lately)
What do you use your cues for? Gardening?
I've been using the same player for years without a scratch/ding and I'm not a particularly careful person.
I've been using the same player for years without a scratch/ding and I'm not a particularly careful person.
It depends on whose cues they are. Maybe they are sanding off the sharpie points, and they may not use things to mark them to make them even. Ted Harris sanded a cue down one time and it looked like a Hi Lo combo and he didnt know what to do, so he called the maker and sent it to him and it came back perfect..
If the points are off more than just a few mm, the maker did something wrong long before the cue was finished initially. Either it warped before final cut, or the "A" joint was done off center.
I should have not used the term MM's That may be kind of a lot. Lets just say not 100% perfect. If very slight it is correctable if the cue maker desires. It may not even be noticeable.
I had this conversation with Richard Black once as to how perfect a cue needs to be. If I remember right he felt at a certain distance like arms length, if the eye could not see it there is no problem. This happened at a BCA show once when I took out a loupe to look over a cue and he grabbed it out of my hand.
I believe even a diamond is called flawless based on the overall appearance of the stone under ten times magnification. Even the term perfect can be subjective.
My cues that need work. ie, just purchased used, maybe an acciDENT..lol.. I'm very careful with my cues as well but not to the point that I think about it when I play...
I remember talking with Joe G. about a cue that had a lot of thin filed work and he got the finish off by "chipping" it off with a razor blade while it spun in the lathe... Said it was the safest way to make sure nothing got damaged.. Afterwards sometime later I actually saw him do it.. Takes a steady hand and patience...
It all depends on the type of point. If it is a 4-point cue where the points are 9" long in a 12" forearm and nearly touch at the bottom, a few mm is a lot. If it's 8 points that have 1/2" or more between the four long points, and they are nearly 10" long in a 13" forearm, then a few mm is peanuts. It's all about the groove angle, which dictates the depth of the point near the tip. The 4-point that is a few mm off will require a whole lot more material removal to get the points even, whereas the 8-point that's a few mm off can be lightly touched up with sand paper or razor scraped to perfection in a couple seconds.
I do. It's attention to detail. In a refinish, if something comes off, it should be put back before the new finish is applied. That's what a competent maker would do. No matter how great a maker is, points do not always come out even. In fact, it rarely happens, especially with cues that have narrow & long points like I make. A 4-point cue with shorter, wide points is very easy to keep even because of the severe angle they're cut at. Not so easy with long, narrow points. The angle is quite shallow, making them significantly more susceptible to unevenness due to the slightest movement or off center. There's a reason you don't see many guys making cues with multiples of long points. Many more guys make 4-pointers. Even 6-pointers are greatly more "user friendly" than 8-pointers, because they have room to be wider. Anybody who cuts points, especially regularly, understands these things. A refinish should be no big issue.
Case in point, three forearms here. All have very long, very narrow points, with recut points inside of base points. Two of these forearms required minor adjustment of point tips to make them even. Can anybody see which ones? No. And if they can then I did a bad job. I'm pretty confident that the points will remain even during a refinish where the cue gets sanded, but if they do fluctuate a little, it would be nice if the guy doing the job would even them back up before applying the new finish. I would. Even if I refinish somebody else's cue, I would attempt to get the points even. It's his name on the cue, not mine, but it's a respectful courtesy as I'd hope he would do the same for me.
GREAT post! It's this kind of detailed response that moves you up my imaginary list of "guy who is going to build my next cue." (Not that you weren't already at/near the top).
Very detailed and informative! Thanks all! Thank you for the other questions as well. I've learned a plethora of information and know where to take my cues for a refinish. I also wanted to give Paul Dayton a shout out. Thanks Paul for doing the fine refinish work that you do and for you AZers, you guys just strait, Rock!
OR, he is someone who cares more for functionality than for adornment.
Dale(did you see what I did there?)