WRISTS - The "hidden power catalyst" of a great stroke or "just along for the ride"?

follow-through not a good indicator of a good stroke?

dr_dave said:
The follow through doesn't matter, but it does! As described on the follow-through effects resource page,

the follow through is not the "cause" of a good hit, but it is often a strong indicator of a good stroke into the ball ... which does affect the hit

And it can help many players (evidently, including you) to focus on the type and amount of follow through desired to create the desired speed and action on a shot.

When you get a chance, check out the follow-through resource page. I think it describes things in a way that all "schools of thought" can agree with.

Regards,
Dave

PS: The Follow Through is the Teacher! :grin-square:
Click to expand...

I believe you don't quite understand the deeper levels of what I'm communicating. Your information seems to make sense, however, it's missing something. Let me ask you a few questions so I can elaborate and point out what I'm indicating.

When is the follow-through not a strong indicator of a good stroke?
 
CJ Wiley said:
dr_dave said:
The follow through doesn't matter, but it does! As described on the follow-through effects resource page,

the follow through is not the "cause" of a good hit, but it is often a strong indicator of a good stroke into the ball ... which does affect the hit

And it can help many players (evidently, including you) to focus on the type and amount of follow through desired to create the desired speed and action on a shot.

When you get a chance, check out the follow-through resource page. I think it describes things in a way that all "schools of thought" can agree with.

Regards,
Dave

PS: The Follow Through is the Teacher! :grin-square:
Click to expand...
Your information seems to make sense, however, it's missing something.
Click to expand...
Feel free to point out what is missing. If you provide useful information that is concise, coherent, and meaningful, I will be more than happy to add a quote of what you write to the resource page.

CJ Wiley said:
Let me ask you a few questions so I can elaborate and point out what I'm indicating.
Click to expand...
Fire away.

CJ Wiley said:
When is the follow-through not a strong indicator of a good stroke?
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Sometimes, people can have a good stroke into the ball and execute the shot as desired but have a terrible follow-through (e.g., rising tip with exaggerated elbow drop and/or excessive grip tightening, sideways cue tip motion due to "chicken wing" action and/or wrist turn, interrupted and constrained follow-through due to a jabbing or jerking-back motion, etc.).

Also, sometimes the follow-through can look fine, but the stroke into the ball is terrible (e.g., wrong speed, off line, unintentional english, etc.).

The Follow Through Isn't Always the Teacher.

Regards,
Dave
 
Last edited:
When your name is Alan Hopkins.


CJ Wiley said:
I believe you don't quite understand the deeper levels of what I'm communicating. Your information seems to make sense, however, it's missing something. Let me ask you a few questions so I can elaborate and point out what I'm indicating.

When is the follow-through not a strong indicator of a good stroke?
Click to expand...
 
CJ Wiley said:
I believe you don't quite understand the deeper levels of what I'm communicating. Your information seems to make sense, however, it's missing something. Let me ask you a few questions so I can elaborate and point out what I'm indicating.

When is the follow-through not a strong indicator of a good stroke?
Click to expand...

I believe you don't quite understand the meaning of the word, "few".
 
dr_dave said:
Feel free to point out what is missing. If you provide useful information that is concise, coherent, and meaningful, I will be more than happy to add a quote of what you write to the resource page.

Fire away.

Sometimes, people can have a good stroke into the ball and execute the shot as desired but have a terrible follow-through (e.g., rising tip with exaggerated elbow drop and/or excessive grip tightening, sideways cue tip motion due to "chicken wing" action and/or wrist turn, interrupted and constrained follow-through due to a jabbing or jerking-back motion, etc.).

Also, sometimes the follow-through can look fine, but the stroke into the ball is terrible (e.g., wrong speed, off line, unintentional english, etc.).

The Follow Through Isn't Always the Teacher.

Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...

So a player can have a good stroke, and a terrible follow-through?

Isn't the follow-through part of the stroke?
 
That's pretty cool actually, wonder what that looks like?

dr_dave said:
Please read my post again more carefully. I clearly stated "stroke into ball."

Regards,
Dave
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So you can stroke into ball? That's pretty cool actually, wonder what that looks like?

312441_581946765164697_1742230865_n.jpg
 
CJ Wiley said:
Once a players fundamentals are refined it frees the subconscious mind to do other things.....like play the game at a higher level. It's amazing how much mental horsepower it takes to correct basic, set-up issues.....just so the player can enjoy some amount of consistency.

I would suggest that you practice for 15 minutes a day ONLY looking at the object ball. This means literally DO NOT look at the cue ball and try to pocket the shots by feel.

This drill will make you mentally approach the shots in a way that will utilize a different part of your mental processes. Sometimes it does wonders, you'll just have to experiment with it to see. 'the GAME is the teacher'
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Great advice imo.

It´s amazing to see how accurate you are when doing this, that is if you have a good PSR, vision etc.
A mild version of this that I like is to go down just looking at the OB and then look at the CB and stroke with no prestrokes. It tells me that I look at the angles right, or wrong. Doing it right the aim is perfect already.

Thanks for all your help and insight CJ

Regards

Christian
 
To dr_dave and CJ, please refer to the thread on why people leave the forum. When the luminaries insult each other or others, we are doomed. You guys have to set the example. It would be better to joke about hitting too hard or using too hard of a tip. My $.02.
 
Dr_CollieCue said:
To dr_dave and CJ, please refer to the thread on why people leave the forum. When the luminaries insult each other or others, we are doomed. You guys have to set the example. It would be better to joke about hitting too hard or using too hard of a tip. My $.02.
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You are correct. Good job making me see the immaturity in my pointless reply. This is the type of thread that makes me embarrassed to be part of the pool world.

I usually do a better job at ignoring immaturity and petty insults, but I carelessly allowed myself to be dragged down into the muck. I will be more careful in the future.

"Learning From Mistakes" is the Teacher,
Dave
 
dr_dave said:
You are correct. Good job making me see the immaturity in my pointless reply. This is the type of thread that makes me embarrassed to be part of the pool world.

I usually do a better job at ignoring immaturity and petty insults like this, but I carelessly allowed myself to be dragged down into the muck. I will be more careful in the future.

"Learning From Mistakes" is the Teacher,
Dave
Click to expand...

I agree Dave, you contribute too much on a regular basis to be dragged into that crap. Happy Tuesday :grin:
 
dr_dave said:
You are correct. Good job making me see the immaturity in my pointless reply. This is the type of thread that makes me embarrassed to be part of the pool world.

I usually do a better job at ignoring immaturity and petty insults, but I carelessly allowed myself to be dragged down into the muck. I will be more careful in the future.

"Learning From Mistakes" is the Teacher,
Dave
Click to expand...

Seagull3.jpg


Good job! disguised troll post :thumbup:
 
dr_dave said:
Good job making me see the immaturity in my pointless reply.
Click to expand...
Good job owning up - and for calling out the immaturity and pointlessness of the poster you replied to (sometimes it needs to be said).

We won't see anything as classy from CJ.

Rep to you.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Good job owning up
...
Rep to you.
Click to expand...
Thanks PJ.

Concerning the content that was being discussed, I trust that people can judge for themselves whether or not the information on my follow-through resource page makes sense and is meaningful. I think the info on the page and via the supporting links helps clear up many common misconceptions concerning the stroke.

Regards,
Dave

PS to CJ: I sincerely apologize for showing any disrespect. You certainly deserve respect for the level of play you were able to achieve in the past. Some of us might disagree with some of the ideas you propose (and the way you present them), but we should do so in a respectful way. Peace!
 
CJ Wiley said:
Once a players fundamentals are refined it frees the subconscious mind to do other things.....like play the game at a higher level. It's amazing how much mental horsepower it takes to correct basic, set-up issues.....just so the player can enjoy some amount of consistency.

I would suggest that you practice for 15 minutes a day ONLY looking at the object ball. This means literally DO NOT look at the cue ball and try to pocket the shots by feel.

This drill will make you mentally approach the shots in a way that will utilize a different part of your mental processes. Sometimes it does wonders, you'll just have to experiment with it to see. 'the GAME is the teacher'
Click to expand...
You better believe it does wonders! The first time I got down on this shot I thought to myself, "I'll bet I miss the entire ball with the tip." LO and behold, I put the OB straight in the middle of the pocket. I make about 80% of them and I'm even using T.O. I. I continued practicing this throughout my entire session. When I agree with you that it does wonders, I mean it's a "lighter" hit and there's a different "texture" to the hit, for lack of better words. There's even a different sound to the hit. Remember "The Hustler," when Eddy is talking to his girlfriend, and referring to his cue, says, "It has nerves. It's a piece of wood but it has nerves!" I just tapped into a few new nerves doing this and I like it......a lot! As I said I only practiced this for one session, but I was going back and forth with looking at the OB only and shooting normally while looking at the CB. When I went back to shooting normally, I'd try to recall the feel of shooting while looking only at the OB and try to incorporate that feel into my normal shot. I can honestly say I possessed a better stroke at the end of the practice session than I possessed before the session. I'm serious. Thanks!
 
dr_dave said:
Thanks PJ.

Concerning the content that was being discussed, I trust that people can judge for themselves whether or not the information on my follow-through resource page makes sense and is meaningful. I think the info on the page and via the supporting links helps clear up many common misconceptions concerning the stroke.

Regards,
Dave

PS to CJ: I sincerely apologize for showing any disrespect. You certainly deserve respect for the level of play you were able to achieve in the past. Some of us might disagree with some of the ideas you propose (and the way you present them), but we should do so in a respectful way. Peace!
Click to expand...

I'm glad you saw I was joking, hate to see how you are when someone's serious. :D
 
CJ Wiley said:
I'm glad you saw I was joking, hate to see how you are when someone's serious. :D
Click to expand...
If that is how you joke, I'd hate to see how you are when you really go after someone. :grin-square:

Interpersonal Skills are The Teacher. :thumbup:

Best Regards,
Dave
 
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