CJ's Suggestions

CJ's post/suggestions

  • makes perfect sense

    Votes: 55 35.5%
  • makes sense at times

    Votes: 55 35.5%
  • confusing

    Votes: 12 7.7%
  • makes no sense

    Votes: 33 21.3%

  • Total voters
    155
Well folks it looks like we found an expert in "PJ". Why don't you play "CJ" then "PJ", since you seem to be LOADED with an expert technical approach to the game? Make sure as you are destroying him, you point out what he is doing wrong too. :/

Patrick's post makes sense. In every non-call-shot game, simply increasing your power will give you a higher percentage of pocketing the OB in case you made a small error, than TOI ever will.

And if you want extreme spin, just hit the CB as far off as theoretically possible using a ton of power, practically like you're breaking. Make sure you have a good tip for that, though, or you'll miscue almost every time.

Generally speaking, CJ's techniques are useful to some point, but there are simpler solutions with greater results.
 
It's another teaching tools of many. Some get it some don't. He's very good at self promoting. Just doesn't mean it will help you specifically
 
Luther Lassiter was asked by interviewers (and random audience members) many, many times over the years: "Mr. Lassiter, do you ever teach pool?"

He always replied in that admirable, courtly country gentleman manner of his: "Son, I can't teach, because I don't know what I'm doing." A lot to ponder in that economical reply. It may be worth mentioning that he died broke by all accounts. Teaching and analyzing was just never his thing, nor his area of interest however many other gifts he possessed beyond most mortals who play the game.

That said, IMHO CJ has the business-savvy and teaching adroitness to have carefully systematized exactly what worked for him and is profitably passing it on (as any teacher is entitled to do in an open, admirably capitalist society like our own), and it arguably has helped a number of AZB and other players and continues to do so for a variety of intuitable reasons. Give him credit for that attempt to systematize and evolve a teaching method and adjunctive modern visual tools -- whatever reservations folks justifiably have about un-systematized, shotgun promotion. Didn't hurt Barnum in his day and promoters have colorfully emulated him for decades.

Regarding pool instruction and highly applicable playing tips, examples of very commendable inroads towards development of, and systematizing of, playing/teaching techniques for pool in recent decades come immediately and appreciatively (to my mind anyway) in terms of national recognition:

Jerry Breisath and his gifted pupil, fellow instructor, Mark Wilson. Remarkably thorough analyses and breakdowns of virtually every aspect of essential-to-learn setup and stroking fundamentals and advanced cueing and playing (and competing) techniques conveyed in simple but quite effective everyday verbal terms, understandable to all, and well demonstrated by digitized visual and diagrammed graphic means, that thereby emerge as actually very sophisticated, compressed learning tools.

A great many other excellent pool instructors are also regularly mentioned on AZB in appropriately very positive accounts from members who've benefited hugely from private lessons they've had with them.

Sadly, don't think Luther's playing is amenable to systematizing or exact emulation. Geniuses are often like that. However, I've personally learned a great deal studying Mike Sigel's stance, stroke, and uncannily economical navigation of 14.1 and 9-ball racks. What a pool IQ (and instincts) he has. A number of players have taken private lessons from him -- always dazzled by the beauty and essential purity of his stroke and pinpoint positional accuracy. Great finesse combined with all the necessary power when required.

Arnaldo
 
Luther Lassiter was asked by interviewers (and random audience members) many, many times over the years: "Mr. Lassiter, do you ever teach pool?"...He always replied in that admirable, courtly country gentleman manner of his: "Son, I can't teach, because I don't know what I'm doing." A lot to ponder in that economical reply.

That said, IMHO CJ has the business-savvy and teaching adroitness to have carefully systematized exactly what worked for him and is profitably passing it on (as any teacher is entitled to do in an open, admirably capitalist society like our own),..Didn't hurt Barnum in his day and promoters have colorfully emulated him for decades.

...Jerry Breisath and his gifted pupil, fellow instructor, Mark Wilson. Remarkably thorough analyses and breakdowns of virtually every aspect of essential-to-learn setup and stroking fundamentals and advanced cueing and playing (and competing) techniques conveyed in simple but quite effective everyday verbal terms, understandable to all, and well demonstrated by digitized visual and diagrammed graphic means, that thereby emerge as actually very sophisticated, compressed learning tools. <--Yes, and thankfully, they did all this without making up any confusing new words, or terminology ! ;)

A great many other excellent pool instructors are also regularly mentioned on AZB in appropriately very positive accounts from members who've benefited hugely from private lessons they've had with them.

Arnaldo

Arnaldo,..Forgive me for abbreviating your fine post !..I just wanted to emphasize, (and embolden) the points I strongly concur with !..My favorite, is your "PT Barnum" remark..However, any comparison of Mr.Wiley to him..is a great disservice to Mr. Barnum ! :sorry:

PS..I would much more equate Mr. Wiley's 'teaching capabilities', with Mr. Lassiter's, who at least was wise enough to recognize, and admit his shortcomings ! ;)
 
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"expert technical" advice from a beginner

Well folks it looks like we found an expert in "PJ". Why don't you play "CJ" then "PJ", since you seem to be LOADED with an expert technical approach to the game? Make sure as you are destroying him, you point out what he is doing wrong too. :/

Listening to "expert technical" advice from a beginner is always a treat.
 
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giving my "dis-likers" a way to get approval from each other

What makes no sense is putting stupid polls on here belittling a champion who takes his time to impart his vast knowledge of the games to the rest of us. Do I use toi...no. Do I appreciate having some one on a forum with his knowledge taking the time to teach ABSOLUTLY.


Nonsense like this is why people are leaving the forum.

This is why other pros won't post on azbilliards and you can't really blame them.

I'm actually giving my "dis-likers" a way to get approval from each other - a purpose in life - a meaningful goal

0d9779683a7f32585926f2c8f27a31ab.jpg
 
This is why other pros won't post on azbilliards and you can't really blame them.

I'm actually giving my "dis-likers" a way to get approval from each other - a purpose in life - a meaningful goal

Too bad saying it doesn't make it true, eh? :rolleyes:
 
Listening to "expert technical" advice from a beginner is always a treat.

Getting scientific knowledge (and ALL things on a pool table are governed by the laws of science) from someone who has neither a broad understanding of science nor exceptional intelligence would make even less sense--far less.

"The good thing about science is that it’s true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson
 
Reminds me of a few years ago in Michigan, where the elixirs were plentiful.

Almost as much as a carnival barker selling magic elixir and swearing it will cure whatever ails you.
Chuck

Yes, almost, although there's no "magic bullet" other than knowledge, practice and the willingness to never stop.....and never give in. This attitude will cure what ails you.

There's nothing better than experience to teach us how attitude plays a part in every role. Playing pool for a living was the ultimate course, especially in the big cities, when times were tough. Sometimes you just had to "STICK" it out until things got better.

I was in Detroit and was struggling, I only had $500. so it was important to get "pumped up" as quick as possible. I was steered to a small bar that the owner played at and was also told he would lose a lot if someone would play with "The Stick".

I walked into the dimly lit bar, taking in the smell of cigarettes, and stale beer as I quickly cased the joint. The bar was on the left side, just past the one bar table, the bar was small with four men sitting around it drinking their favorite "poison". I was dressed to fit in with a camouflage vest, Wolverine boots, a Skoal can visible in my back pocket and a hat that had two pigs "gettin it on" labelled "Makin Bacon".

I went up to that bar and ordered a Bud and made some small talk with one of the regulars. He was dressed much like I was, and after they heard me talk they relaxed knowing I was nothin but a country bumkin kid.

Looking at the pool table I said "I'm a really good pool shot," partly to myself, but loud enough that the four barflies could hear me.

"How good do you shoot, boy, good enough to shoot for a beer?"

I responded "a beer....sh*t I play a whole lot better than that, there's nobody around here that can beat me". This got there attention and they all looked at me closer, a little bit more intently, trying to figure me out.

"The owner'll play ya if ya use "The Stick", ain't nobody ever beat him with 'The Stick".......the other four men laughed an eerie laugh at the same time...."yeah, get the Stick, get the Stick" they all chimed in together.

The Bartender reached up above the bar and pulled down a one piece house cue, only this cue didn't have a tip OR a ferrule, just jagged wood where the tip would normally be. The bartender handed it to me and I pretended to study it intently.

Just then the owner walked in the bar and walked toward us. "this boy wants to play ya with "The Stick"....he thinks he's a pool shooter."

"Wait a minute, I didn't say anything about using this thing, it doesn't even have a tip, how can I even hit the dang cue ball right, hell there's no way to play pool with this piece of crap?"

The owner looked at me, sized me up from head to tow, pausing to chuckle to himself at my two pigs "makin love" on my hat, then said, "I'll spot ya the 6 ball if you use that thing and play ya for $50. a game if you wanna gamble."

I said slowly and thoughtfully "you mean if I make the 6 or the 9 I win and you only win if you make the 9 ball....but I gotta use this crazy stick?"

Yep.....and we can play all night long. I nodded my head "you gotta game, I gotta try just to see what happens."

We started playing and each time I broke the balls pieces of "The Stick" flew on the table and sometimes across the room. I knew I could win at this game, but it suddenly dawned on my I might "run out of stick" before I could "bust" the guy. I must have taken 3 inches off the stick in the next 4 hours, but I played really good with that primitive "stick" and beat the owner 20 games ahead, by grinding the "stick" on the floor between shots and chalking it like a regular cue, before long it was fairly smooth and besides whittling it down it actually played ok......considering.

The owner paid me off with 20 brand new fifty dollar bills and I was on my way, now I had $1500. and I was heading to THE RACK....the big action pool room in Detroit. There a guy could get rich playing pool, there were guys winning and losing millions. I was ready to fire my "match" at their wood pile. I had already overcome "The Stick," what could they have in store for me at THE RACK? Surely nothing a country boy with a "Makin Bacon" hat couldn't deal with.
 
TOI is an alignment/total playing system, not an Aiming System

Getting scientific knowledge (and ALL things on a pool table are governed by the laws of science) from someone who has neither a broad understanding of science nor exceptional intelligence would make even less sense--far less.

"The good thing about science is that it’s true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

TOI is very scientific, and of course it can be explained in those terms. What it isn't is an "aiming system," although it can be used to create any angle needed playing pool.

TOI is an alignment/total playing system, not an Aiming System, of course this can be argued, however the ones now that are using TOI will all know the difference. An Aiming System is like the "sights" on a gun, TOI is the Gun. (metaphorically speaking of course)

My Aiming System is showcased in 1997 in my DVD 'Ultimate Pool Secrets', it teaches to align the a spot on the cue ball to either the Center or Edge of the object ball. This "Aiming System" can by used as a check and balance to the TOI, however, it's not a total playing system like the TOI Technique is.

The TOI shifts from visual aiming to Creating Angles using your tip as a reference. The TOI blends ALL aspects of pool playing into one. With TOI you MUST treat every shot the same, in terms of SHOT SPEED - CREATING SHOT ANGLE - and CUE BALL TARGET. When you master the TOI SHOT, you will, in effect be able to play the complete game at a championship level. Have I "mastered" the TOI Technique? The answer is quite simply "yes".....however just recently have I become advanced at teaching it, in 1997 (when my UPS videos were made) I didn't want to get into teaching the world a different way of playing. Besides, I was using it myself and was the #1 Player in the World (96 Player of the Year voted by Pool and Billiard Magazine), so I really didn't want to divulge my most guarded secret at that time.

Many things have changed in my world and the "pool world," I know longer want to gamble for a living, it's better for my sense of "well being" to help players improve and enable them to reach their maximum performance level if they choose to put the time and dedication into it. 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
Getting scientific knowledge (and ALL things on a pool table are governed by the laws of science) from someone who has neither a broad understanding of science nor exceptional intelligence would make even less sense--far less.

"The good thing about science is that it’s true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

TOI is very scientific, and of course it can be explained in those terms. What it isn't is an "aiming system," although it can be used to create any angle needed playing pool.

TOI is an alignment/total playing system, not an Aiming System, of course this can be argued, however the ones now that are using TOI will all know the difference. An Aiming System is like the "sights" on a gun, TOI is the Gun. (metaphorically speaking of course)

My Aiming System is showcased in 1997 in my DVD 'Ultimate Pool Secrets', it teaches to align the a spot on the cue ball to either the Center or Edge of the object ball. This "Aiming System" can by used as a check and balance to the TOI, however, it's not a total playing system like the TOI Technique is.

The TOI shifts from visual aiming to Creating Angles using your tip as a reference. The TOI blends ALL aspects of pool playing into one. With TOI you MUST treat every shot the same, in terms of SHOT SPEED - CREATING SHOT ANGLE - and CUE BALL TARGET. When you master the TOI SHOT, you will, in effect be able to play the complete game at a championship level. Have I "mastered" the TOI Technique? The answer is quite simply "yes".....however just recently have I become advanced at teaching it, in 1997 (when my UPS videos were made) I didn't want to get into teaching the world a different way of playing. Besides, I was using it myself and was the #1 Player in the World (96 Player of the Year voted by Pool and Billiard Magazine), so I really didn't want to divulge my most guarded secret at that time.

Many things have changed in my world and the "pool world," I know longer want to gamble for a living, it's better for my sense of "well being" to help players improve and enable them to reach their maximum performance level if they choose to put the time and dedication into it. 'The Game is the Teacher'

I like how only your first sentence is related to the post you quoted, and you don't even expound on what is scientific about TOI.

Instead you launch into a full blown sales pitch. Absolutely pathetic, and the main reason you have so many "haters."
 
I like how only your first sentence is related to the post you quoted, and you don't even expound on what is scientific about TOI.

Instead you launch into a full blown sales pitch. Absolutely pathetic, and the main reason you have so many "haters."

He does it every time he can :barf:
 
Almost as much as a carnival barker selling magic elixir and swearing it will cure whatever ails you.
Chuck


Now folks, behind this curtain you are going to see the most bizarre attraction you have ever seen — and I'm going to introduce it to you all right now. Ladies and gentlemen, meet a TOI! This beauty is our star attraction, but is so unusual we are banned from advertising on the outside. And since it’s not advertised on the outside, it’s not included in your general admission ticket, there is an extra charge for what you are about to see.

We make no apology for this policy, because when CJ goes behind this curtain, and you go too, you will plainly see that, in fact: You've never seen a pool technique like this before! You've heard your neighbors talking about other pool techniques. Now you will see one like you’ve never seen before -- in its entirety, as bare as my right hand that you see before you right here.

Now you must be between 18 and 80 years old or older to enter, because if you're under 18 you wouldn't understand it, and if you're over 80 you couldn't stand it. And since we do not wish to embarrass any of you sensitive folks, we have erected a partition down the center of the tent so that the men and women will be separated as they enter. The ladies will go to the right and the men to the left. When you enter I want you to go right up to the edge of the stage. Get as close as you can so that you can see a TOI in every detail, unadorned, unashamed, unlike anything you have ever seen before.

The fee for this attraction is 2 bits and it's time to go in right now. And those of you who are under 18 years of age, please step down to the other end of the tent where you will be entertained by our magician on the main stage.



Lou Figueroa
with apologies to
"Carny Lingo"

 
You like the Kentucky jokes, don't you. You know we did get indoor plumbing down here recently. Oh, and some of us even have indoor bathrooms, too.

Perhaps you got butt hurt :wink: about something once while driving through our low, rolling hills?

Anyway, where might you be from, boy?


DTL

ps We've produced some mighty fine players: Best All-Around in Nick Varner. Best 9-Ball player/Gambler in Buddy Hall. Best hustler in Vernon Elliott. Best banks player in John Brumback.

pss At least this ignorant hillbilly knows whether or not the folks are getting bamboozled..............the crux of this debate, IMO.

psss Kentucky, pretty horses and fast women. :cool:

View attachment 384999

Lol, I am from a little town called Harrah. I imagine that should be easy for a backward ass boy from Kentucky to remember.

P.S. How has your CTE training been coming along, Bamboozle?
 
Ha!

Like the other thousand techniques out there, TOI can work for some people. That being said it doesn't work for me. Now in regards to Mr. Wiley directly...

I do not care at all for the ("constant") buzz word/phrases in his posts or the constant use of "quotations" in most of his posts. Not only is this practice sorely and blatantly incorrect from a grammatical standpoint, its also annoying. Replying to the "haters" with "sarcasm" to prove a "point," does not make you sound like a patient teacher at all. It makes you sound like a politician.

CJ, your ego is so big that much like a planet attracts meteors and asteroids, you attract "haters". The moon is tired of fighting with your head over who controls the tides.

Most of the professionals of the billiard industry are very objective on this forum. OB for example, has impressed me with their efforts to support customers and inform rather than promote themselves blatantly. John Barton may make great cases, but his conduct, attitude, and ego made him lose the respect and gain a lot of "haters." Your system may be great for some, but I wouldn't book you for a lesson in a million years. Its funny how the respectable teachers of the game like Mark Wilson, Dr. Dave, Stan Shuffett, and others don't swim in this controversy that you do.

You patronize a forum member with a 'lets play and stream it' move as a way to discredit him when he in fact may have a fair amount of technical knowledge. The lack of maturity amazes me. Also most true experts, never call seem to call themselves experts and the approach the game with humility. Remeber CJ, the game is the teacher, not you.

Next we have stories. Well here is one.

A player in his mid-late 20s is in a major city in Texas. The break-pots are high. $500+ a ball and up all over the place! This player might not have the best cue ball control but he shoots straight as hell and has a lot of heart and gamble. Our guy enters a pool hall, where everybody is buying tickets. Thousands of them. Next thing you know, a man with some dough gets the winning ticket number. He puts CJ on the table. Cj breaks em hard, the rack explodes and the layout is easy. The pot is over $10,000, so do the math on 10 ball. Knowing this, all CJ has to do is runout and he is almost straight in on the 1 ball and its 3 ft. away. CJ dogs his brains out and the pot is safe. Meanwhile, our guy who doesn't have ESPN World Champion on display like a peacock with his feathers, goes around town and snaps a bunch of break-pots off. Making thousands.

The moral of the story is that no matter what "system" you use, the game takes heart and no matter how much of "champion" you think you are, you probably aren't the demigod of pool your ego tells you that you are.

CJ you may have the ability of a professional, the know how of a marketing guru and the aptitude to develop decent system, but you sir have no class. The main forum is becoming about you more than pool and its disgusting.

Come on down to the Big Tyme Classic at the end of the month and give us an expo! I'm sure a champion like you can play Kevin Cheng 10 ball on table 4. Hell maybe you can get into some one pocket action while you are here in Houston and you can TOI your way to 8 and out every game!

So go ahead and say "heads" as a way to derail a conversation!
 
Like the other thousand techniques out there, TOI can work for some people. That being said it doesn't work for me. Now in regards to Mr. Wiley directly...

I do not care at all for the ("constant") buzz word/phrases in his posts or the constant use of "quotations" in most of his posts. Not only is this practice sorely and blatantly incorrect from a grammatical standpoint, its also annoying. Replying to the "haters" with "sarcasm" to prove a "point," does not make you sound like a patient teacher at all. It makes you sound like a politician.

CJ, your ego is so big that much like a planet attracts meteors and asteroids, you attract "haters". The moon is tired of fighting with your head over who controls the tides.

Most of the professionals of the billiard industry are very objective on this forum. OB for example, has impressed me with their efforts to support customers and inform rather than promote themselves blatantly. John Barton may make great cases, but his conduct, attitude, and ego made him lose the respect and gain a lot of "haters." Your system may be great for some, but I wouldn't book you for a lesson in a million years. Its funny how the respectable teachers of the game like Mark Wilson, Dr. Dave, Stan Shuffett, and others don't swim in this controversy that you do.

You patronize a forum member with a 'lets play and stream it' move as a way to discredit him when he in fact may have a fair amount of technical knowledge. The lack of maturity amazes me. Also most true experts, never call seem to call themselves experts and the approach the game with humility. Remeber CJ, the game is the teacher, not you.

Next we have stories. Well here is one.

A player in his mid-late 20s is in a major city in Texas. The break-pots are high. $500+ a ball and up all over the place! This player might not have the best cue ball control but he shoots straight as hell and has a lot of heart and gamble. Our guy enters a pool hall, where everybody is buying tickets. Thousands of them. Next thing you know, a man with some dough gets the winning ticket number. He puts CJ on the table. Cj breaks em hard, the rack explodes and the layout is easy. The pot is over $10,000, so do the math on 10 ball. Knowing this, all CJ has to do is runout and he is almost straight in on the 1 ball and its 3 ft. away. CJ dogs his brains out and the pot is safe. Meanwhile, our guy who doesn't have ESPN World Champion on display like a peacock with his feathers, goes around town and snaps a bunch of break-pots off. Making thousands.

The moral of the story is that no matter what "system" you use, the game takes heart and no matter how much of "champion" you think you are, you probably aren't the demigod of pool your ego tells you that you are.

CJ you may have the ability of a professional, the know how of a marketing guru and the aptitude to develop decent system, but you sir have no class. The main forum is becoming about you more than pool and its disgusting.

Come on down to the Big Tyme Classic at the end of the month and give us an expo! I'm sure a champion like you can play Kevin Cheng 10 ball on table 4. Hell maybe you can get into some one pocket action while you are here in Houston and you can TOI your way to 8 and out every game!

So go ahead and say "heads" as a way to derail a conversation!

XuZv379.gif
 
Like the other thousand techniques out there, TOI can work for some people. That being said it doesn't work for me. Now in regards to Mr. Wiley directly...

I do not care at all for the ("constant") buzz word/phrases in his posts or the constant use of "quotations" in most of his posts. Not only is this practice sorely and blatantly incorrect from a grammatical standpoint, its also annoying. Replying to the "haters" with "sarcasm" to prove a "point," does not make you sound like a patient teacher at all. It makes you sound like a politician.

CJ, your ego is so big that much like a planet attracts meteors and asteroids, you attract "haters". The moon is tired of fighting with your head over who controls the tides.

Most of the professionals of the billiard industry are very objective on this forum. OB for example, has impressed me with their efforts to support customers and inform rather than promote themselves blatantly. John Barton may make great cases, but his conduct, attitude, and ego made him lose the respect and gain a lot of "haters." Your system may be great for some, but I wouldn't book you for a lesson in a million years. Its funny how the respectable teachers of the game like Mark Wilson, Dr. Dave, Stan Shuffett, and others don't swim in this controversy that you do.

You patronize a forum member with a 'lets play and stream it' move as a way to discredit him when he in fact may have a fair amount of technical knowledge. The lack of maturity amazes me. Also most true experts, never call seem to call themselves experts and the approach the game with humility. Remeber CJ, the game is the teacher, not you.

Next we have stories. Well here is one.

A player in his mid-late 20s is in a major city in Texas. The break-pots are high. $500+ a ball and up all over the place! This player might not have the best cue ball control but he shoots straight as hell and has a lot of heart and gamble. Our guy enters a pool hall, where everybody is buying tickets. Thousands of them. Next thing you know, a man with some dough gets the winning ticket number. He puts CJ on the table. Cj breaks em hard, the rack explodes and the layout is easy. The pot is over $10,000, so do the math on 10 ball. Knowing this, all CJ has to do is runout and he is almost straight in on the 1 ball and its 3 ft. away. CJ dogs his brains out and the pot is safe. Meanwhile, our guy who doesn't have ESPN World Champion on display like a peacock with his feathers, goes around town and snaps a bunch of break-pots off. Making thousands.

The moral of the story is that no matter what "system" you use, the game takes heart and no matter how much of "champion" you think you are, you probably aren't the demigod of pool your ego tells you that you are.

CJ you may have the ability of a professional, the know how of a marketing guru and the aptitude to develop decent system, but you sir have no class. The main forum is becoming about you more than pool and its disgusting.

Come on down to the Big Tyme Classic at the end of the month and give us an expo! I'm sure a champion like you can play Kevin Cheng 10 ball on table 4. Hell maybe you can get into some one pocket action while you are here in Houston and you can TOI your way to 8 and out every game!

So go ahead and say "heads" as a way to derail a conversation!


Well said.

Lou Figueroa
 
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