One thing that made you a better position player

I found that taking my time, and visualizing a range I want the cueball to be at after the shot while I am addressing the table helps.

When I say addressing the table I mean standing back determining the next shot and position I am going to play. I pick a range because as an amateur I know I will not hit that exact spot (specifically cut shots vs like a stop shot), so if I have a range that I know I can make the next shot I should be good to go.
 
DAVE_M said:
Applying advice from Dr. Dave to real situations
Click to expand...
This is huge. Dave's reality-based advice "gives you a fish", but more importantly it also "teaches you how to fish" so you can apply the principles you learn to situations you haven't seen yet.

pj
chgo
 
learning to be on the "right side" of the object ball, so the CB starts off heading in the right direction (and not being too straight in)
 
michael4 said:
learning to be on the "right side" of the object ball, so the CB starts off heading in the right direction (and not being too straight in)
Click to expand...
A general rule of thumb for this: You usually want the CB and the 3rd OB to be on opposite sides of the 2nd OB.

pj
chgo
 
Ralph Kramden said:
What was the one thing that actually made you a better position player?
I have one that I'll share later in this thread. Twice I found something to
change my way of thinking. For one it was the distance control for the
speed of the shot angle. The required angle when drawing or with follow
and working off the 90* tangent line to move the cue ball into position
was an enlightenment.

I knew the CB would move sideways, but it wasn't until 1978 that I knew
that it actually followed a right angle path. I read that fact in a pool book
written by Robert Byrne. I was a fair position player at the time..... but a
cue ball angle that always went 90 degrees with a dead ball hit... Wow.

The other something I found on my own. My position play improved to a
point that I was running out on much better players. After watching those
players I knew they played the same. That discovery I made about 1980.

Not to just say it's the same answer that someone else gave.. I left a clue.
I'll get back after I read a few more revealing pointers from other players.
.
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing your position play pointers.... I left a clue to what I found about
the angles that the cue ball will take when hitting shallow draw shots in blue above.

For years I thought the draw angles the CB takes was the same as the cut angles.
After bumping into balls that I tried to miss, not getting CB positions I wanted, and
thinking that the CB had a mind of it's own.. I finally figured out what was going on.

I set up draw shots upon draw shots, and watched the draw shots of better players.

What I do first, before drawing the CB, is to look at the pocket from behind the OB.
After looking down the pocket line I'll look the angle from CB to the OB pocket line.

The CB travel angle.. after a draw shot, is twice the angle from the OB pocketing line.
If the CB angle is 5 degrees from the pocket line, it will draw back about 10 degrees
on the opposite side of the pocketing line. (the about depends on draw and distance)

Dr. Dave gives an answer in post #5.. the tricect system.. using his fingers for angles.

You can use this info for breaking clusters, drawing between balls, or for CB position
when follow won't work. Like any shot it will take some practice to get a feel for it. I'll
bet your position play will improve... once you actually know where the CB will draw.
.
 
Last edited:
pretty well covered

I'm way late to this ball game and most of the things have been covered, perhaps all of them, I'm having trouble getting the last few pages to open.

Things already said, see the whole pattern before starting your run, use speed and angles, minimize use of side spin.

I don't know if anyone has said to aim for the part of the pocket that gives you the best chance of success. That usually means if you think the object ball is likely to carry long, aim to barely make it in the near side of the pocket.

Now, for my addition, if it is an addition. Play spot position with the cue ball. What you are doing with the cue ball is almost always more difficult than what you are doing with the object ball. Decide where you want the cue ball and consider your options for getting the cue ball there. Entering from a direction that lets the cue ball stop anywhere along that line is normally the best option but maybe you have to go three rails in heavy traffic to do that. Maybe stun or even putting some pretty serious juice on the cue ball to move a short distance is the better option for the situation on the table at the moment. Generally, minimizing movement of the cue ball is a good idea.

Own the cue ball and everything else is gravy. Even if you don't exactly hit your spot every time you are aiming small and the result should be that you are missing spot position smaller and smaller as time goes on. The amount of focus on every shot just naturally increases pocketing skills.

Hu
 
Ralph Kramden said:
The CB travel angle.. after a draw shot, is twice the angle from the OB pocketing line.
If the CB angle is 5 degrees from the pocket line, it will draw back about 10 degrees
on the opposite side of the pocketing line. (the about depends on draw and distance)

Dr. Dave gives an answer in post #5.. the tricect system.. using his fingers for angles.
Click to expand...
The three videos on the draw-shot trisect aiming-system resource page demonstrate several different ways to visualize the final draw direction. The fastest way is to just visualize the 3 pieces of pie in your head (uhm ... pie :grin-square:). I personally prefer the cue-pivot method, as demonstrated first in:

NV D.10 - Draw Shot Trisect Aiming System - from Vol-II of the Billiard University instructional DVD series

The following video shows a good example of how this technique can be applied to aim a draw carom shot:

NV E.4 - Carom-Shot Trisect-Draw System, from HAPS II

Regards,
Dave
 
One of the best ways I improve my cue ball positioning is through visualization and feedback. On every shot, I try my best to see the exact motion of the cue ball and pick a spot on the table for it to land. If the cue ball takes a different path, then I immediately evaluate why that happened. There are many reasons for bad positioning, and here are a few common ones: poor stroke leading to bad tip contact or wrong speed, incorrect aim, misjudgment of tangent line, or misjudgment of speed transfer to the object ball.
 
bdorman said:
IMHO the one thing that made (or, "is making" since I'm not there yet) me a better position player is confidence that I'm going to pocket the OB. I view position play largely as an intellectual exercise that's pretty easy to develop: what's the pattern? how much speed, english, etc.

What was holding me back was a lack of confidence/ability to pocket the OB. Position doesn't mean much when it's no longer your turn at the table.

(I apologize that I didn't have time to read all the other replies, and see how the thread has degraded into a p*ssing contest based on religion and beliefs; busy morning).
Click to expand...

I agree with this post 100%.

I've done all the drills, although admittedly not enough. I've watched all the videos. I know just about all the shots and I don't say that to brag because I think a lot of us know all the shots. Of course that doesn't mean we can always execute them.

None of those things helped my position play as much as working on my ball pocketing did.

I really don't think this game of ours is so complicated that it has to broken down into an infinite number of shots and then each of those shots have to be mastered. Especially since you can practice all the positional routes until the cows come home but as soon as you step to the table and you are outside of your ball pocketing comfort zone all that practice goes right out the window.

So instead of working on a million different cue ball control drills I work on thumping balls into the pockets right at the edge of my comfort zone. I continue to increase my pocketing skills. Only after doing this, have I really been able to free up my mind (subconsciously properly) to really control the cue ball.

When you can step to the table with absolute full confidence that the ball is going in the hole, learning to tame the cue ball becomes much easier. I've found when I'm focused on two things at once I accomplish neither but when I only have to focus on one thing -- I can do it. Maybe I'm just too simple of a creature.

There's this cue ball control to ball pocketing ability ratio that all of us have to consider when we are focusing on improving. I think there's an obvious reason for this and it's something all of us players have to fight. It's simple really, as we get better at controlling the cue ball there's a natural tendency to not have to shoot as many difficult shots. When you couple this with the fact that you are getting cue ball control feedback on each and every shot it becomes only natural that your cue ball control will continue to improve. But for you to improve as a shot maker you really have to focus on it.

For years I think my cue ball control was better than my ball pocketing ability for my skill level. So for the past few years, the only thing I've really focused on was my ball pocketing and surprisingly both have improved quite a bit. I may finally be approaching the point where I need to get back to focusing on certain positional shots that have been weaknesses but overall it’s still the strengthening of that ball pocketing muscle that I will work on.
 
Learning how to stun follow and stun draw the cue ball. Instead of normal follow or draw all the time.
 
cueman said:
Learning how to stun follow and stun draw the cue ball. Instead of normal follow or draw all the time.
Click to expand...

Would that not be considered "floating" the ball? Thats what I sometimes try to do when I get a little too straight, hit it a little stiff and let float a little forward or backwards of stun line.
 
Float?

I drive the ball in. Bending the line of the ball to make the pocket play larger. With authority.
I like bump,bump,bump best.
The best position is don't miss.
You may quote me on that.
Nick :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top