Best "Affordable" 4th Axis

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The reason I started this thread was to get an opinion from all of the knowledgeable cuemakers on what the best 4th axis under 1k was. I figured between Custom Cue Manufacturers, Master Cue Makers, CNC Wizards, and CNC Machine Manufacturers I would have an awesome response. It has degraded into a pissing match. This thread is a classic example of why I don't come to AZ that much anymore.

Steve

Before you asked the question there really was no good answer for such short money. The solution you/we found is a huge success for everyone as a result of it.

Everything else is just bonus info
 
Hello Sir Wayne. IP rating is for the person protection. Sorry i thought you would know that from machine upgrades you do .
[...]


Hello, Miss Geo. If you were capable of reading English you would be able to understand my post (which you quoted), and you would know that I DO understand "IP protection" can mean "ingress protection". I also pointed out that there are other meanings for the term "IP protection", which is why the vague nature of your "question" made it an annoyance rather than a sincere attempt to encourage an open and honest discussion.

But your obvious inability to read the English language has held you back from realizing I successfully passed your "quiz".

As for the importance of ingress protection, I have been in many, MANY cue shops and I have yet to observe a CNC application in which a Molex connector could be considered a hazard of any sort. It might be noted that every single wall outlet in every cue shop in the country ALSO fails to have any "IP protection" features - rendering your argument both weak and moot.

TW

 
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George, I am not Mr. Wayne, but was wondering why you would need such strong motors? All of the work is getting done with the large cutter and large and fast spindle. I would guess that those motors are over-sized. Not that it is a bad thing. Are they nema 34 motors? Looks like you need a motor that will be running at 2,794 rpm.



This motor should have no problem doing the task:

https://www.teknic.com/model-info/CPM-SDHP-3441D-ELN/



But it is still over doing the job. When selecting these motors rpm does become important. Buy the way with a 6,400 pulse coder that would give you roughly 32,512 pulses per inch or resolution of .00003076" as your smalles possible step. The machine would be way better off with a 10mm pitch ballscrew. Who ever ordered them machine did not do their homework. I think the pitch is too fine. If they had gone 10mm they could have easily been able to do 1,000 ipm. LOL.



Jim.

Jim

George did say that the machine has 10 pitch screws. It looks like you've done your numbers for 5 pitch.

So, as you've already shown, the motor you chose would really do those speeds with either 10 or 5 mm pitch screws.

Of course, if you went with 10mm pitch, you could use lower rpm and higher torque motors.

George, Jim has a valid point that the primary load for this cutting action falls on the spindle. What rpm is that spindle turning? What is the chip load on that cutter and how many flutes does it have?

I'm pretty sure that my machine, with nema 23 steppers could easily make those cuts. I would have to change the spindles though as my 350 watt NSK would certainly not be up to the task.

You know George, we're all on the same side. I don't think anyone here wants to fight with you. What we do want is to have a simple logical discussion. If you could open up and talk to us about what you do know, and allow us to do the same, it's quite possible that we could all learn from each other. I'm fairly confident that we as a group have at least something that you may not already know, and I'm also pretty sure that you have things that we don't know. Unfortunately, none of that can happen if you continue to view our questions as attacks. I know that I have not attacked you, yet you react as though I have.

Ok, I'm off to the APA national championships to try to sell some cues. 3 days left!



Royce
 
My mistake

Royce, you are correct. My appologies. I for some reason thought it was 5mm pitch. As you pointed out I was wrong. In that case, the 10mm pitch ballscrew was a great choice.

George, any chance you could give a part number on those motors? I would be interested to see the torque curve for them.

thanks, Jim.
 
Which one of you Machinists will make a putter head out of carbon steel? I want an exact copy. These machines mill soft steel?
 
The reason I started this thread was to get an opinion from all of the knowledgeable cuemakers on what the best 4th axis under 1k was. I figured between Custom Cue Manufacturers, Master Cue Makers, CNC Wizards, and CNC Machine Manufacturers I would have an awesome response. It has degraded into a pissing match. This thread is a classic example of why I don't come to AZ that much anymore.

I think your 4th axis question was covered. As far as pissing contests, you're correct.

I admit my decision was heavily swayed by Thomas, but I actually held a Clearpath in my hand and the quality is truly impressive. I've also seen them, not heard as they ate silent, run on Eddie Cohen's machine. Furthermore, I was VERY impressed by the folks at Teknic. If that isn't enough, they offer a 90 day no risk trial. Run them for a couple of months and, if you don't like them, return them. Oh....and they ate made here.

Anyone want to
 
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I think your 4th axis question was covered. As far as pissing contests, you're correct.

I admit my decision was heavily swayed by Thomas, but I actually held a Clearpath in my hand and the quality is truly impressive. I've also seen them, not heard as they ate silent, run on Eddie Cohen's machine. Furthermore, I was VERY impressed by the folks at Teknic. If that isn't enough, they offer a 90 day no risk trial. Run them for a couple of months and, if you don't like them, return them. Oh....and they ate made here.

Anyone want to

If TW, DZ and RBC like em, it's good enough for me.
I'll wait for the mill model.
And maybe convert a taper machine to clearpath taperer.
 



Hello, Miss Geo. If you were capable of reading English you would be able to understand my post (which you quoted), and you would know that I DO understand "IP protection" can mean "ingress protection". I also pointed out that there are other meanings for the term "IP protection", which is why the vague nature of your "question" made it an annoyance rather than a sincere attempt to encourage an open and honest discussion.

But your obvious inability to read the English language has held you back from realizing I successfully passed your "quiz".

As for the importance of ingress protection, I have been in many, MANY cue shops and I have yet to observe a CNC application in which a Molex connector could be considered a hazard of any sort. It might be noted that every single wall outlet in every cue shop in the country ALSO fails to have any "IP protection" features - rendering your argument both weak and moot.

TW


Miss Gio , I like that it is great lol .
If you say it not important to have IP rating.No problem good answer
 
I have found some of the best information buried in pissing match threads on this forum. People get emotional and blurt things out.


JC
 
I have found some of the best information buried in pissing match threads on this forum. People get emotional and blurt things out.


JC

I have noticed that also. Sometimes when people's methods or decisions are called in to question, they end up giving away one or two little things that may not be universally done (if not exactly new) in an attempt to defend themselves.
 
Jim

George did say that the machine has 10 pitch screws. It looks like you've done your numbers for 5 pitch.

So, as you've already shown, the motor you chose would really do those speeds with either 10 or 5 mm pitch screws.

Of course, if you went with 10mm pitch, you could use lower rpm and higher torque motors.

George, Jim has a valid point that the primary load for this cutting action falls on the spindle. What rpm is that spindle turning? What is the chip load on that cutter and how many flutes does it have?

I'm pretty sure that my machine, with nema 23 steppers could easily make those cuts. I would have to change the spindles though as my 350 watt NSK would certainly not be up to the task.

You know George, we're all on the same side. I don't think anyone here wants to fight with you. What we do want is to have a simple logical discussion. If you could open up and talk to us about what you do know, and allow us to do the same, it's quite possible that we could all learn from each other. I'm fairly confident that we as a group have at least something that you may not already know, and I'm also pretty sure that you have things that we don't know. Unfortunately, none of that can happen if you continue to view our questions as attacks. I know that I have not attacked you, yet you react as though I have.

Ok, I'm off to the APA national championships to try to sell some cues. 3 days left!



Royce

Hi Royce, that would be great if you can do same cutting if it the Raptor you are using. It would be great for advertising.

Again , i have no idea what you mean about attacking me? I stated my choice on motors and that all it has been about.

I asked numerous times i just don't want to talk about it and just be left alone . But what i think is right for my customers is what i go by, seem to not be ok here.
As i said, i don't really care what the f you use .Do you give your customers what you think is right. Or just makeshift add a band-aid .

I have had zero problems with Leadshine products, every customer is happy right down to guys doing dental work for quality and precision. DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT?

A person has a choice to choose for themselves . IS that a problem for you?

Again you are more than welcome to tell anyone you like about your CLEARPATH, I have zero problem with that and if they get them its better less work for me.

You know i just asked one simple question . Only got round around and jibbish in return . I have not even brought out the real stuff yet
 
[...] Do you give your customers what you think is right. Or just makeshift add a band-aid .
[...]

I personally cannot think of anything more "makeshift add a band-aid" than securing an end-load ballscrew application into a bearing block assembly using only the friction provided by a clamping collar. Industry standard - INDUSTRY STANDARD - is a locking nut tightened and secured onto a threaded section of the screw.

You defend your choice vigorously, but your method would be called into question by any competent mechanical engineer on the planet, and would the first thing a liability attorney latched onto if (when?) the thing slipped and someone got hurt. It's simply and undeniably an inferior solution, and the fact that you prefer it is enough to convince me to NEVER buy anything you sell or endorse.

TW

 


I personally cannot think of anything more "makeshift add a band-aid" than securing an end-load ballscrew application into a bearing block assembly using only the friction provided by a clamping collar. Industry standard - INDUSTRY STANDARD - is a locking nut tightened and secured onto a threaded section of the screw.

You defend your choice vigorously, but your method would be called into question by any competent mechanical engineer on the planet, and would the first thing a liability attorney latched onto if (when?) the thing slipped and someone got hurt. It's simply and undeniably an inferior solution, and the fact that you prefer it is enough to convince me to NEVER buy anything you sell or endorse.

TW


Hello Sir Wayne, that's not a problem at all. Again, you have the choice and that is your choice. Proud of you for standing up for yourself. Good boy
 
. I have not even brought out the real stuff yet

The real stuff? cant wait

Out of curiosity what motors do you sell or endorse that have an IP rating? Please dont give me the yaskawa / mitsu answer. We're talking about xzero electronics here
 
The real stuff? cant wait

Out of curiosity what motors do you sell or endorse that have an IP rating? Please dont give me the yaskawa / mitsu answer. We're talking about xzero electronics here

If not IP rated ,the driver would have to be in fire proof enclosure with VFD and power supply.
XZero does not have electronic?

Leadshine has the integrated driver and not IP rated. Clean environment only they are sold

Leadshine is a manufacturer , not a end user seller
 
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I personally cannot think of anything more "makeshift add a band-aid" than securing an end-load ballscrew application into a bearing block assembly using only the friction provided by a clamping collar. Industry standard - INDUSTRY STANDARD - is a locking nut tightened and secured onto a threaded section of the screw.

You defend your choice vigorously, but your method would be called into question by any competent mechanical engineer on the planet, and would the first thing a liability attorney latched onto if (when?) the thing slipped and someone got hurt. It's simply and undeniably an inferior solution, and the fact that you prefer it is enough to convince me to NEVER buy anything you sell or endorse.

TW


Sorry Sir Wayne , i mostly don't read stuff you write completely as mostly all gibberish .
You always write aggressiveness, sorry but that wont work with me as i see it has worked for you before
If you look at most machines coming into North America, they use motor coupling to hold ballscrew to motor.With out even a bearing .
 
If not IP rated ,the driver would have to be in fire proof enclosure with VFD and power supply.
XZero does not have electronic?

Leadshine has the integrated driver and not IP rated. Clean environment only they are sold

Leadshine is a manufacturer , not a end user seller

lets try this again.

WHAT MOTOR AND DRIVER COMBO DO YOU PROVIDE "WITH AN XZERO MACHINE" THAT CARRIES ANY SORT OF IP RATING?
 
lets try this again.

WHAT MOTOR AND DRIVER COMBO DO YOU PROVIDE "WITH AN XZERO MACHINE" THAT CARRIES ANY SORT OF IP RATING?

None OF THEM, I DONT sell integrated motors with drivers. All components should be in enclosure and away from machines
 
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