JC
Coos Cues
Well there's a lot of reasons it won't work. But I'm going to play with it anyway because I like the idea of the taper. I'll report back later.:smile:
Coring!
- Thread starter Kim Bye
- Start date
Well there's a lot of reasons it won't work. But I'm going to play with it anyway because I like the idea of the taper. I'll report back later.:smile:
RBC
Deceased
The only reliable way to have a long tool as is being described would be to build a special spindle mechanism to run it.
First, you'd need at least 1/2 as much of the depth of cut in shank length. Meaning if you want a 14" depth of cut, I would want at least a 7" long shank. It would need to run in some high concentricity collet system on very good quality bearings mounted near each end of the long shank.
Runout would be absolutely critical. The slightest amount would lead to a balance problem, which at the 14" length described, would lead to a swinging tool instead of a rotating one. And that' not good!
Personally, I'm not sold on the benefits of the tapered core. I know some who have done it, and I'm not sure the benefits out weight the extra work and expense. Our core system is much different than most, but still uses a straight single diameter core. It does add considerable strength and reliability to the cue, and we've built thousands of them without any real issues.
It would be fun to build that 14" DOC router though!
Royce
First, you'd need at least 1/2 as much of the depth of cut in shank length. Meaning if you want a 14" depth of cut, I would want at least a 7" long shank. It would need to run in some high concentricity collet system on very good quality bearings mounted near each end of the long shank.
Runout would be absolutely critical. The slightest amount would lead to a balance problem, which at the 14" length described, would lead to a swinging tool instead of a rotating one. And that' not good!
Personally, I'm not sold on the benefits of the tapered core. I know some who have done it, and I'm not sure the benefits out weight the extra work and expense. Our core system is much different than most, but still uses a straight single diameter core. It does add considerable strength and reliability to the cue, and we've built thousands of them without any real issues.
It would be fun to build that 14" DOC router though!
Royce
Like Joey said. I think the runout 14" out in 95% of the routers used by cuemakers would be beyond frightening and render it unusuable. The forces would be phenomenal at high speed. Because of that, I doubt you would find an endmill with an 8" flute length less than 5/8" or 3/4" in diameter. For a 12" flute length, well over an inch in diameter would be my guess. Turning it really slow if you solved the other issues would likely not yield better results in wood than a good boring bar.
I am no machinist, so I could be wrong.
I am no machinist, so I could be wrong.
The reason I think it would be worth the effort is because in order to glue a straight core you need clearance, that clearance is typically filled with urethane. Urethane is a dampener and takes away from hit. Yes this is subjective but a solid lamination with an intimate fit between core and forearm would be ideal. Imagine how your shafts would hit if there was a 0.005" gap between all your laminations filled with urathane.
JC
Coos Cues
That's kind of what I was thinking and wondering if the ends would justify the means, whatever they turn out to be. Royce says no and he may be right and on top of that it would be hard to prove. I wouldn't bet that I could personally tell you which cue had a two piece butt with a sloppy forearm core filled with gorilla glue or a butt made out of solid wood with a blind fold on. But if I knew for sure which was which I could surely "feel" the difference right?:smile:
JC
google line boring so you grasp the concept
lets say the stock in this case is a tubular piece of wood with a 750 hole through it.
now visualize a headstock and tailstock where a hardened ground bar .600" in diameter with a "or multiple" single point bits protrude from this bar about .1" "yeah i know its not alot of relief but this is a concept" The bar that would usually spin in a line boring setup via the headstock would be fixed in this case.
Now on the carriage, in lieu of steady rests....picture one of Chris Hightowers dual chuck headstocks with a motor on the backside. The headstock would be mounted at slight angle relative to taper, would spin the stock and utilize the powerfeed. Of course you would have to remove the cutter bar to get it inside the stock on every piece.
Just an idea for tapered core
lets say the stock in this case is a tubular piece of wood with a 750 hole through it.
now visualize a headstock and tailstock where a hardened ground bar .600" in diameter with a "or multiple" single point bits protrude from this bar about .1" "yeah i know its not alot of relief but this is a concept" The bar that would usually spin in a line boring setup via the headstock would be fixed in this case.
Now on the carriage, in lieu of steady rests....picture one of Chris Hightowers dual chuck headstocks with a motor on the backside. The headstock would be mounted at slight angle relative to taper, would spin the stock and utilize the powerfeed. Of course you would have to remove the cutter bar to get it inside the stock on every piece.
Just an idea for tapered core
TAPER coring
It might surprise all but a few - but I started tapered coring some 20+ years ago - it is not myth, it works very nicely - the tapered reamers are a bit expensive, however, and were made especially for the application.
Paul
It might surprise all but a few - but I started tapered coring some 20+ years ago - it is not myth, it works very nicely - the tapered reamers are a bit expensive, however, and were made especially for the application.
Paul
I visualize a custom made taper reamer with a morse taper shank to go directly into the tailstock quill. Chase a gun drilled hole that is .010 less than the desired small end after tapering. Reamers are generally designed to remove very little material, so make the taper fairly shallow to reduce cutting pressure. The taper need not be extreme to get the discussed benefit of a tapered core. Go slow and peck if needed.
Pure guess, but sounds like a $1500 custom tool.
Pure guess, but sounds like a $1500 custom tool.
I didn't see your post until after I submitted my slowly written one. Can you share what a typical price for such a reamer would be? Edit: Obviously, that depends on the specific shop doing the work. Personally, I would want 3 or 4 different sizes.
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JC
Coos Cues
There goes that myth.
I take it you didn't listen to negative nancies then and did not see a coring video. :grin-square:
ElCorazonFrio
Banned
I may have missed it, but how is there any benefit to a conical core?
A conical core now means that every part has to be bored to the exact correct depth or there will be gaps or it won't fit.
I really can't believe that anyone would think this is a good idea when more than 1 piece has to go on the cone.
A conical core now means that every part has to be bored to the exact correct depth or there will be gaps or it won't fit.
I really can't believe that anyone would think this is a good idea when more than 1 piece has to go on the cone.
Do you make cues ?
Why would you leave the exposed part of the cone as is ?
Do you think, the ring holes will be tapered too ? Same with the collars ?
After the dowel is glued to the forearm sleeve , you take down the exposed part of the dowel to fit the rings and collars. That after taking a pass on the sleeve to make the outside concentric to the dowel's centers. You can chuck up on that sleeve when it's totally concentric to the dowel.
ElCorazonFrio
Banned
I have made cues.
I get it now. I had something different in my head. Thanks for the explanation.
So now I am going to up set some people..............
If the core is tapered and it's full length......... you must build it from the butt sleeve forward........... if there are rings between the sections ....... butt sleeve / handle...... and handle / forearm................. they will have different inside diameters..........
Each section with have to be tapered inside to fit where they fit on the dowel...........
To me this is nonsense........... and totally unnecessary..........
I will use a straight core and use GG............ when it sets up..... you can't move it with a sledge hammer............
Why put yourself through all the trouble when it is just wood working mastrubation..........
give it a rest and build pool cues
JMHO
Kim
If the core is tapered and it's full length......... you must build it from the butt sleeve forward........... if there are rings between the sections ....... butt sleeve / handle...... and handle / forearm................. they will have different inside diameters..........
Each section with have to be tapered inside to fit where they fit on the dowel...........
To me this is nonsense........... and totally unnecessary..........
I will use a straight core and use GG............ when it sets up..... you can't move it with a sledge hammer............
Why put yourself through all the trouble when it is just wood working mastrubation..........
give it a rest and build pool cues
JMHO
Kim
JC
Coos Cues
I believe the tapering conversation concerned only the forearm on an A joint build.
JC
ElCorazonFrio
Banned
This is exactly the problem I was having, but as JC said, it seems they are just talking about tapering for the forearm.
Stick em and clamp em making.