Break speed: what do pros aim for?

[SamLambert]

Hello guys,

Simple question enough: what seems to be a break speed that is considered good enough for world class level?

Right now, I can break at 20ish mph reliably, good control enough, but must I go higher? Should I practice to be able to get, say, 25 mph while still having good control or will the difference be negligeable?

Yes, I know, as long as you sink a ball and got a shot on the next ball, but a 10mph shot can do that.

I am really looking for a realistic high end to aim for.

Thanks!
Sam

 

[Scott Lee]

20 mph is plenty fast enough, provided you hit the CB dead center, and hit the front ball of the rack square. There should be ZERO spin on the CB. FYI, nobody...even the top pros...makes a ball on the break every time. Using some of the rack 'templates', like the Magic Rack, can improve pocketing percentages on the break. The key is controlling your cuestick, without "wild" movement of your body. Excessive followthrough doesn't improve the accuracy of the break. Hope this helps...

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

 

[slide13]

I think it depends on the game and the table and the conditions. I too have about a 20mph break consistently. Have gone up to 23-24 on occasion but more often than not things get sloppy when I do. I'd love to have a consistent 25mph top end so I'd have a good range for different tables, but where I play I find my most productive breaks are around 18mph so I don't presently have a lot of incentive to work toward upping it.

 

[billy]

20 mph is plenty fast enough, provided you hit the CB dead center, and hit the front ball of the rack square. There should be ZERO spin on the CB. FYI, nobody...even the top pros...makes a ball on the break every time. Using some of the rack 'templates', like the Magic Rack, can improve pocketing percentages on the break. The key is controlling your cuestick, without "wild" movement of your body. Excessive followthrough doesn't improve the accuracy of the break. Hope this helps...

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

good info above ^^^^

 

[SamLambert]

20 mph is plenty fast enough, provided you hit the CB dead center, and hit the front ball of the rack square. There should be ZERO spin on the CB. FYI, nobody...even the top pros...makes a ball on the break every time. Using some of the rack 'templates', like the Magic Rack, can improve pocketing percentages on the break. The key is controlling your cuestick, without "wild" movement of your body. Excessive followthrough doesn't improve the accuracy of the break. Hope this helps...

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Thanks for the info Scott! Very helpful!

 

[bdorman]

In a TAR interview a couple years ago, Johnny Archer said he breaks at about 23 mph and SVB at about 24.5 mph. IMHO Corey Deuel spelled the end of the monster-breakers who hit 27+ mph.

It seems like my break stroke is like my golf stroke: When I'm breaking my fastest it doesn't feel like effort at all...because all the parts of my body are in sync, so they're all contributing to the speed and control. When they're not in sync it feels like hard work.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Hello guys,

Simple question enough: what seems to be a break speed that is considered good enough for world class level?

Right now, I can break at 20ish mph reliably, good control enough, but must I go higher? Should I practice to be able to get, say, 25 mph while still having good control or will the difference be negligeable?

Yes, I know, as long as you sink a ball and got a shot on the next ball, but a 10mph shot can do that.

I am really looking for a realistic high end to aim for.

Thanks!
Sam

Increasing speed from 20 to 25 mph may not seem like much, but it makes a huge difference in the energy the CB carries into the rack. That 25% speed increase raises the CB's kinetic energy more than 50%, which can mean lots more OB movement from the rack - but only if you hit it equally accurately.

So I agree with the advice to only break as hard as you can control, but I also think there's lots of potential benefit in working to increase that limit.

pj
chgo

P.S. If you can get to 30 mph, your break's energy will increase 125%.

 

[buckshotshoey]

Here is how I would state it. .....
Every table is different.....and even the same table can break
differently from day to day.

Three things need to be accomplished....
1 make a ball
2 get good spread with few or no clusters
3 control cue ball so you have a next shot.

All three of these need accurate cue ball placement
All three can be (but not the only way) achieved with speed control.
Using my table as an example, playing 8 ball, 18 mph gives me all three more often.
I use the Predator app to work on break speed control. It can be difficult to keep
that speed +/- 1/2 mph. When I can do that, I have a much better percentage of a B&R.

 

[one stroke]

Increasing speed from 20 to 25 mph may not seem like much, but it makes a huge difference in the energy the CB carries into the rack. That 25% speed increase raises the CB's kinetic energy more than 50%, which can mean lots more OB movement from the rack - but only if you hit it equally accurately.

So I agree with the advice to only break as hard as you can control, but I also think there's lots of potential benefit in working to increase that limit.

pj
chgo

P.S. If you can get to 30 mph, your break's energy will increase 125%.

In my early 20s I had a break in the mid 30s which is where MDs break is but parking the Qb was questionable but multiple balls happened frequently,, tore my shoulder up In late 20s quit pool for 10 yrs and was clocked at 29 at 40 now a couple balls would be a good break ,, few yrs ago at 52 I clocked at 23 I learned I'm better off just taking a little off that and just making the wing ball and getting shape on the one
This is actualy the more consistent break I think these guys look for now , make a ball and a predictable spread ,, so although a big break speed might make more balls the predictability becomes impossible and it becomes more a break of luck
Today's pool players are far superior in the breaking game than any other time in history
1

 

[Colin Colenso]

Increasing speed from 20 to 25 mph may not seem like much, but it makes a huge difference in the energy the CB carries into the rack. That 25% speed increase raises the CB's kinetic energy more than 50%, which can mean lots more OB movement from the rack - but only if you hit it equally accurately.

So I agree with the advice to only break as hard as you can control, but I also think there's lots of potential benefit in working to increase that limit.

pj
chgo

P.S. If you can get to 30 mph, your break's energy will increase 125%.

Great point!

A couple of points for the original poster to consider....

1. 20+ will come in handy for 10-ball and 8-Ball racks when the table isn't being kind to the breaker.

2. If you can get into the high 20's, it allows you to break at 20 with ease and hence more control. SVB seems to be getting around 25 sometimes with a silky controlled swing with good control of the CB.

That said, 20 may be enough to compete, but at times it may be a disadvantage over some break crushers.

Colin

 

[BRussell]

The next problem, though, is how to increase your break speed by 5 or more mph. People seem to have a natural break speed and it's not as easy as just telling yourself to break harder.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

The next problem, though, is how to increase your break speed by 5 or more mph. People seem to have a natural break speed and it's not as easy as just telling yourself to break harder.

Power breakers tend to use their powerful shoulder muscles, dropping their elbow or even standing up while straightening the stroke arm to make a longer lever to swing in a fast arc. It's a harder motion to coordinate and control, but more powerful than just the biceps swinging the forearm.

pj
chgo

 

[Barnabus McDoug]

You guys must be eating your wheaties with whole milk. Out of 80 breaks, my hardest per the break speed app was an 18.03. And that's on a 7 foot Diamond. How in the world are yall up in the 20's?

 

[Heath Manning]

Hi Sam and fellow members,

I normally break between 23-25mph with my highest speed of 28.9mph.
I'm 5'6" 165 Lbs and have learn't that technique and practice are key to an explosive controlled break.
I don't lunge at the table, bend my shaft like a banana or jump off the floor.
Controlled cue speed with centre ball hit and centre ball contact.
I personally teach the game we love, have a billiard business and an extreme passion for the sport.
There have been many debates and discussions on speed vs mass, stance, body balance, breaking position, tips, ferrules, shaft construction, grip location, weight of cue and more which all affect the break.

It becomes tiring and difficult to practice the break having to rack the balls every time which takes away from the learning and development of your break.

I personally have the best practice devise on the market for breaking. The BreakRak not only allows you to continuously break without racking it also displays the speed (mph) of each break.
With the BreakRak you can visibly see the results each time you make changes or little modifications to your stance, cue ball placement, grip position, bridge location and more.

Please feel free to contact me toll free to discuss in greater detail as I'm not on AZ everyday.
I also have a great group of knowledged players on Facebook that openly discuss the game and share their experiences and insights.

Facebook Group: "Billiard Forum - Market" Link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/876556149076997/

 

[TATE]

Hello guys,

Simple question enough: what seems to be a break speed that is considered good enough for world class level?

Right now, I can break at 20ish mph reliably, good control enough, but must I go higher? Should I practice to be able to get, say, 25 mph while still having good control or will the difference be negligeable?

Yes, I know, as long as you sink a ball and got a shot on the next ball, but a 10mph shot can do that.

I am really looking for a realistic high end to aim for.

Thanks!
Sam

Pros look to make a ball and get a shot on the one ball. Speed is good for showing off, but running out is what the game is about. Since I've learned how to play the corner ball better in 9 ball, my B and R percentage has gone way up.

That being said, 20 mph is plenty for a 9 or 10 ball power break from the box. If it's from the side rail, that's a really strong break. I would probably slow it down and concentrate your skills on making a good tight rack, sinking the corner ball, and leaving yourself a shot on the 1 ball. Under the right conditions, that might be better at 12 or 13 mph, believe it or not.

 

[throne4]

Pros look to make a ball and get a shot on the one ball. Speed is good for showing off, but running out is what the game is about. Since I've learned how to play the corner ball better in 9 ball, my B and R percentage has gone way up.

That being said, 20 mph is plenty for a 9 or 10 ball power break from the box. If it's from the side rail, that's a really strong break. I would probably slow it down and concentrate your skills on making a good tight rack, sinking the corner ball, and leaving yourself a shot on the 1 ball. Under the right conditions, that might be better at 12 or 13 mph, believe it or not.

This is excellent advise. I too break much softer than I used to for the purpose of playing shape on the 1 ball.

 

[RiverCity]

Pros look to make a ball and get a shot on the one ball. Speed is good for showing off, but running out is what the game is about. Since I've learned how to play the corner ball better in 9 ball, my B and R percentage has gone way up.

That being said, 20 mph is plenty for a 9 or 10 ball power break from the box. If it's from the side rail, that's a really strong break. I would probably slow it down and concentrate your skills on making a good tight rack, sinking the corner ball, and leaving yourself a shot on the 1 ball. Under the right conditions, that might be better at 12 or 13 mph, believe it or not.

Excellent points!

 

[RonRosas]

I agree. If you are playing 14.1 or one Pocket

I think it depends on the game and the table and the conditions. I too have about a 20mph break consistently. Have gone up to 23-24 on occasion but more often than not things get sloppy when I do. I'd love to have a consistent 25mph top end so I'd have a good range for different tables, but where I play I find my most productive breaks are around 18mph so I don't presently have a lot of incentive to work toward upping it.

23 to 24 mph may be a little hard unless you really thin the end ball.
SO how do you check the speed of your break anyway?

 

[fastone371]

Hi Sam and fellow members,

I normally break between 23-25mph with my highest speed of 28.9mph.
I'm 5'6" 165 Lbs and have learn't that technique and practice are key to an explosive controlled break.
I don't lunge at the table, bend my shaft like a banana or jump off the floor.
Controlled cue speed with centre ball hit and centre ball contact.
I personally teach the game we love, have a billiard business and an extreme passion for the sport.
There have been many debates and discussions on speed vs mass, stance, body balance, breaking position, tips, ferrules, shaft construction, grip location, weight of cue and more which all affect the break.

It becomes tiring and difficult to practice the break having to rack the balls every time which takes away from the learning and development of your break.

I personally have the best practice devise on the market for breaking. The BreakRak not only allows you to continuously break without racking it also displays the speed (mph) of each break.
With the BreakRak you can visibly see the results each time you make changes or little modifications to your stance, cue ball placement, grip position, bridge location and more.

Please feel free to contact me toll free to discuss in greater detail as I'm not on AZ everyday.
I also have a great group of knowledged players on Facebook that openly discuss the game and share their experiences and insights.

Facebook Group: "Billiard Forum - Market" Link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/876556149076997/

My Break Rak is the best pool investment short of my table that I have made. If my break starts getting a little iffy I spend 30-60 for a couple days with my Break Rak and its fixed again. I play mostly 8 ball but my goal cue ball control, I want to park the cue ball in the center of the table and the Break Rak enables me to do that.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Hello guys,

Simple question enough: what seems to be a break speed that is considered good enough for world class level?

Right now, I can break at 20ish mph reliably, good control enough, but must I go higher? Should I practice to be able to get, say, 25 mph while still having good control or will the difference be negligeable?

Yes, I know, as long as you sink a ball and got a shot on the next ball, but a 10mph shot can do that.

I am really looking for a realistic high end to aim for.

Thanks!
Sam

Here is some info that may be helpful:

Shane breaks 10 ball at about 22mph on average. He is almost never over 23. On the 10 foot table match vs Earl, Shane was at about 25 mph and Earl was at 28.

What *game* you are playing has a LOT to do with the answer to this question.

First off...bar table or big table? Bar table 9 ball doesn't need much. 16mph is fine. I find a nice 18mph dead solid stop shot works amazing. I see some people hit the ball harder, often from the side rail. Sometimes this helps if the balls are not racking good. But if you are on a Diamond with Simonis cloth, over 20 mph is usually a bad idea. For 8 ball, you can certainly break harder. If you are going for the 2nd ball, rally 15 mph is plenty. For the front ball, it can often help to really smash them, but I find with a decent rack a dead square hit of about 20-22 is very very productive.

On a big table, same exact advise, just add a little speed. Not much though. With a tight rack in 9 ball, from the side rail, 18mph is great. 20 is good too. Above that becomes counterproductive, as the balls tend to not stay spread out as well. For 8 ball, it definitely seems advantageous to really smash the front ball. My break comes and goes, but when I am breaking well, a very controlled hit on the front ball with a good pop at about 25mph is extremely effective. However, if the rack is good, the same hit at 20mph can also be effective. You have to learn how to use slight follow or draw to direct the 2nd ball into the side pocket. With some practice it is very doable.

What Colin said is one of the best pieces of advise: If you can learn to break 25, then 20 seems soft and easy. If you can learn to break 30, then 25 seems soft and easy. I watch Mike Dechaine do what looks like an all arm, head down, soft stop shot...and it turns out its like 26mph+. This is because he can break *well* over 30, so 26 is a soft easy shot for him, which allows great control.

I think there is no harm in building up the most speed you can, so that the speed you actually use is much easier and effortless. *Effort* seems to be the thing that throws off a break stroke more than anything else. If you are trying hard to push that stick, you are going to go offline.

Buy the Break Rak. Don't look back. Best pool training device ever. Learn to make it pop. Learn to control that pop. Learn to hit with no spin. Learn to blend the pop with follow and draw, so that you can still squat your cue ball near the middle. For example, if I pop the ball good with a bit of follow, its going to bounce back and grind to a halt. If I hit the same follow without the pop, I'm gonna shoot through the rack again...a bad thing. The reason I want to be able to use follow and draw (slightly) is to allow me to make the 2nd ball in the side playing 8 or 10 ball. Speed also influences this.

So short answer: Yes it is a benefit to be able to break 25mph, because it will likely increase your control at 20mph. There are a couple situations in which 25mph can be useful, but in almost all cases 20mph can get the job done if you pay attention to the other break techniques (dead square hit, follow/draw, pop, cue ball starting location, etc.)

Hope this helps!

KMRUNOUT

Check this out: 19.46mph. Doesn't look like much. A little more spin than I would like. But good control, great spread. (At 8:09)
https://youtu.be/YONMFmjVXFc?t=8m9s