Bad Problem with John Showman, (Cue Stolen)

How about you gather all the names of all the people you can that have been screwed over by J.S. and do some type of class action lawsuit, and bury him for all time as an example to ALL cuemakers to pick up the friggin pace and get over themselves.

BBQ his nuts off.
 
JB Cases said:
Everyone has good sides and bad sides. Both of your stories are 100% true. John should take care of Mike. And lest this sound like I am preaching, I have several customers who are waiting far too long for what was promised as well. I have also done charitable things for others without expecting anything in return.

P.S.

3k summer camp???? If I had boys they would be going to "baling hay" summer camp and bringing money into the family :-)
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Well being in construction I have my regular subs all do good work but often over load thier plate they don't do it on purpose they truley think they can live up to thier promises
but often fall short , we put up with it because thier quality is good and at the end of the day that's what we look for ,, if we have a real tight schedule we might use another contractor
I think of it like if you have to have a good doctor tops in his field but you go into his office and he's double booking if it's critical you wait it out if it's not you leave
In that money range for a Showman cue I would have no problam waiting

1
 
SUPERSTAR said:
How about you gather all the names of all the people you can that have been screwed over by J.S. and do some type of class action lawsuit, and bury him for all time as an example to ALL cuemakers to pick up the friggin pace and get over themselves.

BBQ his nuts off.
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he hasn't seen em in 40 yrs so i doubt he'd miss em
 
one stroke said:
Well being in construction I have my regular subs all do good work but often over load thier plate they don't do it on purpose they truley think they can live up to thier promises
but often fall short , we put up with it because thier quality is good and at the end of the day that's what we look for ,, if we have a real tight schedule we might use another contractor
I think of it like if you have to have a good doctor tops in his field but you go into his office and he's double booking if it's critical you wait it out if it's not you leave
In that money range for a Showman cue I would have no problam waiting

1
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You have completely missed the point of this thread. Showman breached his agreement with me and lied at every opportunity. I never would have delivered the cue to him 49 weeks ago if he had not represented I could pick the cue up finished the day before Thanksgiving. He is a breacher and liar. He should be embarrassed. He promised to make it up to me, but just continued lied time after time. Shame on Showman.
 
one stroke said:
Well being in construction I have my regular subs all do good work but often over load thier plate they don't do it on purpose they truley think they can live up to thier promises
but often fall short , we put up with it because thier quality is good and at the end of the day that's what we look for ,, if we have a real tight schedule we might use another contractor
I think of it like if you have to have a good doctor tops in his field but you go into his office and he's double booking if it's critical you wait it out if it's not you leave
In that money range for a Showman cue I would have no problam waiting

1
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So what do you tell the pissed off client when your subs get behind and cause you to not live up to the promises you make for the bigger schedule? Or do you only work on spec projects? Contractors with flaky subs should limit themselves to that kind of work IMO or they just make their own lives and reps hell.

If the cue makers who know themselves to be unreliable would stick to spec cues their stress might be fixed too. And the cues would probably be better too.

JC
 
Very sad story but I never deal with unscrupulous pool room bums so I really can't imagine what you are going through. It is however another nail in the coffin of the
billiard world which seems to be happening more and more. I personally knew of one
cue maker who rode into the sunset stiffing a lot of people without a care in the world?
You can find a lot of used cue making equipment on the internet some of which was
probably stolen,pawned or both. I'm not a lawyer but you may want to look into the people's court for relief or even small claims court. I am sure there is another side to this
story maybe we will hear it soon resulting in a happy ending for all. Good Luck! :thumbup:
 
JC said:
So what do you tell the pissed off client when your subs get behind and cause you to not live up to the promises you make for the bigger schedule? Or do you only work on spec projects? Contractors with flaky subs should limit themselves to that kind of work IMO or they just make their own lives and reps hell.

If the cue makers who know themselves to be unreliable would stick to spec cues their stress might be fixed too. And the cues would probably be better too.

JC
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Actualy I do postal work where meeting the deadlines are A number one , in 8 yrs we have never missed one ,, infact I was just told by a postal higher up who looked up my name on thier data base that my record is flawless
My subs might not meet their schedules during the job and I often have to improvise around them but they do what it takes to meet the hard deadlines when thiers no room for error
This however is not a luxury item where waiting has little conciquence my landlord is waiting on a Dodge Hellcat he's hardly sweating it
Now I do have a friend waiting on a cue who is dying of cancer it was being made in honor of his past away granddaughter and that debacle has be going on for quite sometime to the point where I'm going to pay this guy a visit as the doctor told my friend he might consider hospice ,
That my friends is critical

1
 
Showman

I've done SEVERAL deals with Mike and his cues always arrive in perfect Mint and pristine condition. It's really sad when these cue builders think they can take more then a fair amount of time to get someone back their cue and make them loose a sale for that amount of money. I think John is sending his cues to high end out of the country collectors and not worried about selling his cues here in the US, hence the lackadaisical approach I've seen since I got into the custom cue scene. MAKE IT RIGHT JOHN ! ! ! ! !
 
Here's where the problem lies I think, small or big time cue makers as long as they have your money or cue and money for repair, or will not make anymore money, they lost interest and forget about you. Putting heart into their craft sounds too strong for me, but it will always about the money. I've dealt with the same problem until now with of the best cue makers around and I'm loosing patience before I start a similar thread. Anyways, hope this will be an eye opener for buyers and cue makers alike. Stop making promises, stop being a pathologic liar and do what you have to do for paying customers.
 
This truly is a HORRIBLE situation. If it were me, for any maker, I would drive out and get my cue. A cue of this grade is not worth playing around with. As far as taking legal action, Well you have to go down there to file so you might as well just go get your cue while you're there and THEN file if it is not comeplete... Now another issue is, you may win but as you know collecting can be a whole other headache... THEN if you do have that cue worked on by another maker you ARE gong to loose value... Like I said, truly HORRIBLE situation. I hope John makes good in the end.
 
That's another cue maker I'm crossing off my list of over placing an order or getting a cue on the secondary market. A couple weeks ago I just crossed off a cue maker after he was late to deliver a cue for my friend for 2 years, after taking 50% deposit, lying and excusing the whole time. Funny thing is that this guy is just starting to make a name for himself and would be the most convenient cuemaker for me if I ever needed work done.

I really liked John's work and had him on my wish list.
 
ideologist said:
I obviously paraphrased above.

Some bad stuff happened here, let's tell everyone how great he was to you to keep your investment value up.
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If you read my post you would see that I sold my showman titlist. I actually own very few cues nowadays just my player (Gus) and a few old joss cues and a Scruggs titlist. None of my cues are a showman. But go on and continue calling me selfish and how I'm working to keep my investment up if it makes you feel better.
 
Mike,

Nicely detailed summary of your issues trying to work with John Showman. The facts are bad enough, no need to drive the point harder than that. I own and play with one of John's cues. But based on what I have read of his current problems, I would not send him the cue for any work.

I hope you get your cue back soon.
 
Quality Cues said:
One of the reasons I posted photos of the cue is to put the world on notice that the 2 maple window Showman is my cue. I do not know for a fact that Showman still has the cue. The last time I saw it was the day before Thanksgiving 2014. I was patient with Showman because I wanted him to do a great job on the project and I believed in him. I got suckered, but that does not excuse his conduct.
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I certainly wasn't indicating that you in any way handled this incorrectly - we all want to give people the benefit of the doubt.

You've been more than patient, held up your end of the bargain - I hope that you come down on him like a ton of bricks and get the satisfaction and compensation you deserve.
 
Not to mention this kind of tarnished reputation will certainly devalue his cues. So good luck getting your 7k back. Really shitty situation here.
 
GoldCrown said:
Are the cases paid for in full?
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One is, the rest aren't. Doesn't matter. As a maker it hurts when I know that there are projects that need be done and they aren't moving. It hurts more when customers finally lose all their patience and make threads like these.

I don't want to say I feel bad for John Showman. I want to say that I have immense respect for any craftsman in any craft who can manage time properly and bring in projects as promised on time. This is the part of the business that sucks the passion out of it but in many ways is MORE CRITICAL than the product being made.
 
cueaddicts said:
Good for you, Mike. It's nice to see someone of your caliber stepping forward on something like this. This type of thing is a real stain in this industry/hobby. It's beyond high time the cat gets out of the bag and eyes are opened. Danny Tibbitts held a substantial deposit of mine hostage for nearly a decade, ultimately refusing to build the cue I ordered. Yet another hack who is not worthy of your trust and will lie to you. I should have listened to John Wright's advice about him many years ago.

Here is a FACT....this type of thing ADVERSELY AFFECTS ALL CUEMAKERS, even the honest and timely ones. :(

Another unflattering story about John came out a few years ago here, about how he had jerked around 'Ken_4fun', sitting on his deposit for a long time and producing squat. Ken posted a thread about his experience in 2013 and soon after, the mods here deleted it. But what happened then is what always seems to happen, the usual suspects tightened their circle of wagons to protect him as they often do with these 'anointed ones'. Then the customer is made out to be the bad guy. You see, the inner-core dare not speak out about such a cherished maker...because after all, they have their stuff on order they are getting from them.

I hope you get some satisfaction out of this, Mike. My guess is not, though. But, it also wouldn't surprise me if something gets worked out very quickly (maybe one of his guys will go get your cue or pay up for him) and then this thread will magically disappear.

Funny thing, I think back to that hilarious episode on the Judge Judy show where someone took a somewhat famous cuemaker in CA 'to court' for something similar. That had to have been twenty something years ago.

My, how times haven't changed a bit. :frown:
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Hi Sean:

Thanks for your kind words of support. Neither Showman nor anybody from his camp has contacted me yet to resolve this dispute, which has been going on for way too many months now. Hopefully public pressure from this thread will cause Showman to finally do the right thing and finish the project and/or return my cue and $700.
 
Quality Cues said:
Hi Sean:

Thanks for your kind words of support. Neither Showman nor anybody from his camp has contacted me yet to resolve this dispute, which has been going on for way too many months now. Hopefully public pressure from this thread will cause Showman to finally do the right thing and finish the project and/or return my cue and $700.
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Mike,

The sad truth is the folks who buy cues of this caliber are not in the least put off by bad service and continuous obfuscation. Only have to read the thread on the Joss West design your dream cue fiasco to prove it. Really sorry to read of your problems. Just another brick in my wall against custom cues :sorry: .

Lyn
 
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