Showman thread

Cue makers deserve a deposit that's not the problem. The deposit should be required at time
The build starts and in the age of digital a few pictures along the build keeps everyone happy. I just think a deposit to be on a list is silly and if any cuemaker wants to cash in on secondary market just complete your past agreements, I feel for anyone that waits five plus years for this type of ending. I had the same experience with Danny Tibbitts had a drawing a time of completion and a deposit I even offer to add 2000 if he would just complete the deal for the cue I ordered but he and others in his group thought the cue would be worth 9000 plus and how could he afford to honor or deal. The problem with the market is he was right he didn't build my cue and he was rewarded by selling plain hoppe cues at 4000 plus .
 
Bavafongoul said:
I think you made a great point about how cue-maker reputations are now coming into question. The Forum needs a cue-maker reviews section, not another photo gallery or ask the cue-maker type either. One organized alphabetically by cue-maker and posted rants and raves from their customers so that everyone is currently abreast of the shit going on with some of these guys. I admire Showman's cue-making but his behavior more than negates any interest in him if this is all true. And I've found Ken to be a straight shooter so I believe what he writes. Too many problems with cue-makers seem to be going unreported for too long a period until the curtains are ultimately opened for all to read.
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This is a good idea and might make for a popular website all on its own.
Imagine if AZ organized a section on cuemakers with the same level of detail as their tournament section.

Each cuemaker is listed, along with items sold on or through AZB, plus pricing,
then a review section from buyers (might be some work to vet these).
Maybe even generate stats on typical price, typical quoted timeframe, and actual timeframe.
Allow customers (with proof of purchase) to rate the cuemaker on price, timeframe, workmanship,
communication, and so on.

This strikes me as a niche that hasn't been filled.
Someone with a lot of time on their hands could probably build a site devoted to this,
and if it becomes known as THE trusted source for cuemaker reviews, they could
probably turn a profit on it by selling ad space and maybe subscriptions for detailed stats,
photo gallery, something like that.
 
In the beginning cue makers built cues for pool shooters. Today more and more are collectors or buy and resell. I see all the time someone who waited who knows how long for their cue. Got my cue today isn't it nice. Ok, who wants to buy it. Sure cue makers see this and know they could have received more for their cue. Not to be played with but to sit on display or resold. Love to know the most expensive cue that someone actually plays with. Gotta ask. How long does it take to make the most beautiful cue? How many man hours? Cue makers need to make money for their time but not at the expense of the consumer who ordered the cue. If the buyer doesn't have the money at the time the cue is done. Fine sell the cue or work with the buyer. Cue makers choice. If the buyer has the money than honor the sale agreed upon at the time of the build.
 
jburkm002 said:
In the beginning cue makers built cues for pool shooters. Today more and more are collectors or buy and resell. I see all the time someone who waited who knows how long for their cue. Got my cue today isn't it nice. Ok, who wants to buy it. Sure cue makers see this and know they could have received more for their cue. Not to be played with but to sit on display or resold. Love to know the most expensive cue that someone actually plays with. Gotta ask. How long does it take to make the most beautiful cue? How many man hours? Cue makers need to make money for their time but not at the expense of the consumer who ordered the cue. If the buyer doesn't have the money at the time the cue is done. Fine sell the cue or work with the buyer. Cue makers choice. If the buyer has the money than honor the sale agreed upon at the time of the build.
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The first time I played pool with Ken he was breaking/playing with a Gus Sz.
He also lets anyone who shows an interest hit with any of his cues.

I'm sure there are a lot of "safe queens" out there, just like in the gun world.

At the end of the day, its the customers choice what they do with a cue after its received.
 
I agree that the owner can do whatever they want with the cue. In many cases though that's what is driving the price up. Supply and demand. Nothing wrong with charging whatever you want for a product. If it sells than good for the maker. Some will think you made a great purchase and some will think you over paid. Doesn't matter what others think. As long as the owner is happy. However once the benchmark has been made on cues from certain makers. Might be wrong but it might be hard for them to sell the same quality cue for half that price to someone else. Each cue maker knows their target market. When you have been building quality cues for 30 years I guess you deserve more than someone who hasn't put the time in and made a name for themselves yet. How much more is the question.
 
Mr. Wilson said:
Ken, you are welcome to your opinion.

AZB however isn't your personal soap box. We all know how you feel. Yet, despite that, you feel you need free reign to say anything you wish? Make unfounded accusations? Accuse everyone of being John in disguise? Make veiled threats about having a lawyer?

These are things that wear out a welcome here.

You need to get a grip.
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This is comical...lol "veiled threats about having a lawyer" shows how little you know or the power of some people here...He did have a lawyer and it was my wife, and she DID get his money returned he lost....If you have anymore people make what you think are "veiled threats" or if you see me make a threat to use an attorny you can be sure its real, as I have about 800 at my disposal...

Good day Mod

oh, and FYI John STOLE from me too, so I had a vested interest, of course no one will ever know cause the thread is deleted lol....Good work
 
TheCueHunter said:
This is comical...lol "veiled threats about having a lawyer" shows how little you know or the power of some people here...He did have a lawyer and it was my wife, and she DID get his money returned he lost....If you have anymore people make what you think are "veiled threats" or if you see me make a threat to use an attorny you can be sure its real, as I have about 800 at my disposal...

Good day Mod
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Just stole Post of The Year from Travis Trotter!
 
TheCueHunter said:
This is comical...lol "veiled threats about having a lawyer" shows how little you know or the power of some people here...He did have a lawyer and it was my wife, and she DID get his money returned he lost....If you have anymore people make what you think are "veiled threats" or if you see me make a threat to use an attorny you can be sure its real, as I have about 800 at my disposal...

Good day Mod

oh, and FYI John STOLE from me too, so I had a vested interest, of course no one will ever know cause the thread is deleted lol....Good work
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Good job there...only took 2 years to say something.

The veiled threats at the time were leveled at AZB.
Ask your wife if I should ban people that act that way.

Griping about old threads..interesting use of time in my eyes.
 
Mr. Wilson said:
Good job there...only took 2 years to say something.

The veiled threats at the time were leveled at AZB.
Ask your wife if I should ban people that act that way.

Griping about old threads..interesting use of time in my eyes.
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Actually, you should ban members who have a history of STEALING from those who participate in our sport. Guys like.......John Showman.
 
I wonder how many victims might have avoided bad dealings or situations with unscrupulous people, had all those pertinent threads not been deleted from this forum.
 
Mr. Wilson said:
Good job there...only took 2 years to say something.

The veiled threats at the time were leveled at AZB.
Ask your wife if I should ban people that act that way.

Griping about old threads..interesting use of time in my eyes.
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Very clever response...Im not griping, I read your ridiculous comments and decided I had enough time in btw taking care of patients to say something because you often speak like the playground bully, but is then confronted and has some "clever" sarcastic remark to say...I usually dont waste my time, but the bully cant always win:eek: Back to saving lives!

Ill ask my wife what she thinks of a grown man who threatens "bans" with a straight face on a pool website! lol

p.s. maybe Ill ask my wife if you are responisble for any lost money, by deleting the threads of Showman screwing people over? He still owes me money. Like it was said earlier, maybe if those threads had stayed not so many people would have given that thief money...If anyone is that that boat contact me
 
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TheCueHunter said:
if you are responisble for any lost money, by deleting the threads of Showman screwing people over? He still owes me money. Like it was said earlier, maybe if those threads had stayed not so many people would have given that thief money...If anyone is that that boat contact me
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Mr. Wilson - Do you feel that you have absolutely no responsibility by deleting threads of Showman screwing people over?

I'd like a response.

Ken
 
Ken_4fun said:
Mr. Wilson - Do you feel that you have absolutely no responsibility by deleting threads of Showman screwing people over?

I'd like a response.

Ken
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None.
Absolutely.

You buy a car through a newspaper, do you think the news paper will host your complaints regarding the person you bought from?

There are many recourse at your availability, I don't feel AZB bears that burden though.

People can't just say their piece and let others read,they feel the need to rant on ad infinitum and threaten the board too.

As witnessed in the last few posts, people want to drag the board down and issue threats. What is the upside for AZB?

None that I have ever witnessed...aside from people that feel some vindication from the dogpile.
 
Mr. Wilson said:
None.
Absolutely.

You buy a car through a newspaper, do you think the news paper will host your complaints regarding the person you bought from?

There are many recourse at your availability, I don't feel AZB bears that burden though.

People can't just say their piece and let others read,they feel the need to rant on ad infinitum and threaten the board too.

As witnessed in the last few posts, people want to drag the board down and issue threats. What is the upside for AZB?

None that I have ever witnessed...aside from people that feel some vindication from the dogpile.
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The newspaper doesn't redact old classifieds when a scammer rips someone off.

They stay hands off.

AZB is not staying hands off, and it may have indirectly hurt its userbase.
 
ideologist said:
The newspaper doesn't redact old classifieds when a scammer rips someone off.

They stay hands off.

AZB is not staying hands off, and it may have indirectly hurt its userbase.
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How would you know that a scammer ripped someone off from an old classified? Just sayin'.
 
pocket said:
How would you know that a scammer ripped someone off from an old classified? Just sayin'.
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I've seen angry classifieds and editorials before. The newspaper wants the content, since they charge for the space.

And before someone chimes in with the "it's free," not really, advertising is worth plenty and you are tracked vigorously as a result.
 
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