Cenntennial, Anniversary, Gold Crown 1, 2, and 3 frames, how flat do think they are

[QU do the cuttingOTE=JC;5336270]What did you cut/plane that with Glen?

JC[/QUOTE]

I designed a frame system and a track router runs on it, on using a 1 1/4" mortise bit to do the cutting. I'm pretty sure I'm the only person there is that can perform this task today, and doubt it would inspire anyone else to do work at this level, takes about 2 hours to cut the frame one pass. In the first pass, I take off enough wood to get the frame pretty close to flat, then adjust to finish what didn't cut flat, in the second pass.

PS, and just like all the rest of my tools, this system is portable, so I take it with me everywhere I work.
 
I designed a frame system and a track router runs on it, on using a 1 1/4" mortise bit to do the cutting. I'm pretty sure I'm the only person there is that can perform this task today, and doubt it would inspire anyone else to do work at this level, takes about 2 hours to cut the frame one pass. In the first pass, I take off enough wood to get the frame pretty close to flat, then adjust to finish what didn't cut flat, in the second pass.

PS, and just like all the rest of my tools, this system is portable, so I take it with me everywhere I work.
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For the sake of humanity I hope it gets used outdoors:smile:

JC
 
realkingcobra said:
Well, they both have their pro's and con's that's for sure, so that gives you something to think about. 1 piece slate pro's, easy to set up, no seams to come apart, helps provide table strength because the frame and rails are tied together with the slate.

Con's, very heavy single piece of slate, 618lbs, which if you ever plan on moving and taking the table with you, you're not going to get much support from any local billiards business to do so. Limited places it can be installed because of its size and weight, second floors and basements are pretty much off the to do list.

3 piece pro's, can be installed anywhere any other table can be installed. Slate is 1 3/16" thick vs 1" on the one piece, so it's a little more quiet. Can be moved by pretty much any table mechanic because it's in line with the normal course of business.

Con's, takes a while to set up. The slate seams are steel plate joined together, so they won't ever come apart like other slates can, but still must be set up by someone that knows what they're doing.

But, overall there's no one being better than the other
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Thanks! If I do decide to go with Diamond table, have to decide which slate to choose, both are available and access wont be an issue as its first floor.
 
realkingcobra said:
I always wonder why when someone suggests to everyone what kind of pool table they should own today, how come it is that they themselves don't own the table they recommend owning? Just curious, so you don't own the table pictured, especially since John sold it to a buyer in Baltimore, MD....what kind of pool table DO you own?
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My home not big enough for a table, and I will NOT park my cars outside to rot in the wet climate I live in. I just admired this table, so I saved the pic for my files. Where in my post did I say someone should buy one? Don't think I did, other than to say aesthetics matter. I still think a well done centennial is gorgeous.

The diamond tournament table? May be a wonderful thing to play on...but looks wise, I prefer the Centennial.
 
pwd72s said:
My home not big enough for a table, and I will NOT park my cars outside to rot in the wet climate I live in. I just admired this table, so I saved the pic for my files. Where in my post did I say someone should buy one? Don't think I did, other than to say aesthetics matter. I still think a well done centennial is gorgeous.

The diamond tournament table? May be a wonderful thing to play on...but looks wise, I prefer the Centennial.
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You said "if only Diamonds LOOKED' this good" which I took as an insult because they don't never did, or ever will, but that tables beauty to which you're comparing to a Diamond didn't come from Brunswick either, John Leach did all the beautiful restoration work on it because factory built, they really were not all that pretty, and we're built full of flaws. Mark Gregory builds and rebuilds them to a level Brunswick WISHED they could have, but that makes them a Mark Gregory table of beauty! Diamond was never entering their pool tables in a beauty contest, but Olhausen would, so why not make the beauty comment about an Olhausen instead of a Diamond? Why does all pool tables have to be compared to Diamonds, as either better or prettiest....so, that comparison coming from someone who don't even own a pool table, to me, really has no value in the real world. If I've offended to in some way, I didn't set out to do that as a plan
 
realkingcobra said:
You said "if only Diamonds LOOKED' this good" which I took as an insult because they don't never did, or ever will, but that tables beauty to which you're comparing to a Diamond didn't come from Brunswick either, John Leach did all the beautiful restoration work on it because factory built, they really were not all that pretty, and we're built full of flaws. Mark Gregory builds and rebuilds them to a level Brunswick WISHED they could have, but that makes them a Mark Gregory table of beauty! Diamond was never entering their pool tables in a beauty contest, but Olhausen would, so why not make the beauty comment about an Olhausen instead of a Diamond? Why does all pool tables have to be compared to Diamonds, as either better or prettiest....so, that comparison coming from someone who don't even own a pool table, to me, really has no value in the real world. If I've offended to in some way, I didn't set out to do that as a plan
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Huh? What? You start a thread about how much better Diamond is than other tables and then complain that people compare Diamond tables to other tables?

Your logic doth defy you.
 
I designed a frame system and a track router runs on it, on using a 1 1/4" mortise bit to do the cutting. I'm pretty sure I'm the only person there is that can perform this task today, and doubt it would inspire anyone else to do work at this level, takes about 2 hours to cut the frame one pass. In the first pass, I take off enough wood to get the frame pretty close to flat, then adjust to finish what didn't cut flat, in the second pass.

PS, and just like all the rest of my tools, this system is portable, so I take it with me everywhere I work.
Click to expand...
Mr Portable Belt Sander not doing any of that work ?
:grin:
 
realkingcobra said:
You said "if only Diamonds LOOKED' this good" which I took as an insult because they don't never did, or ever will, but that tables beauty to which you're comparing to a Diamond didn't come from Brunswick either, John Leach did all the beautiful restoration work on it because factory built, they really were not all that pretty, and we're built full of flaws. Mark Gregory builds and rebuilds them to a level Brunswick WISHED they could have, but that makes them a Mark Gregory table of beauty! Diamond was never entering their pool tables in a beauty contest, but Olhausen would, so why not make the beauty comment about an Olhausen instead of a Diamond? Why does all pool tables have to be compared to Diamonds, as either better or prettiest....so, that comparison coming from someone who don't even own a pool table, to me, really has no value in the real world. If I've offended to in some way, I didn't set out to do that as a plan
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I play @ The Cue Ball, Salem, Oregon. Every table there is Brunswick, either Centennial or Anniversary. None of them restored or polished to the extent of the one I used in the pic. I sure wouldn't call them unattractive though. The Cue Ball is also an Olhausen table dealer.

I'm not arguing with you on construction details...only posting this to let you know that I have a pretty good idea of what these classic Brunswicks look like normally.

In my opinion, even after having been in the same pool hall for over 50 years, they still play well and look great. I drive roughly 85 miles round trip to play on them.

You're right..I don't even own a pool table. I guess this makes me unqualified to say what is pleasing to my eye?
 
pwd72s said:
I play @ The Cue Ball, Salem, Oregon. Every table there is Brunswick, either Centennial or Anniversary. None of them restored or polished to the extent of the one I used in the pic. I sure wouldn't call them unattractive though. The Cue Ball is also an Olhausen table dealer.

I'm not arguing with you on construction details...only posting this to let you know that I have a pretty good idea of what these classic Brunswicks look like normally.

In my opinion, even after having been in the same pool hall for over 50 years, they still play well and look great. I drive roughly 85 miles round trip to play on them.

You're right..I don't even own a pool table. I guess this makes me unqualified to say what is pleasing to my eye?
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Tell a Jim I said hi, he knows me well, and we do business together sometimes when I'm in his area, so that tells you I know the room well you're talking about.:thumbup:
 
realkingcobra said:
Well, just so you know, remember that slow, nappy cloth that required a stroke to get around the table with? Well, that very same cloth did wonders to hide ball roll off from un-level slates, but today's use of the worsted wool cloths, expose all the flaws in the level of a pool table....that should explain things to your level of understanding, I hope anyway;)
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Sorry snake - my level of understanding is much better than yours, apparently.

Have someone explain the ref to poolrooms where the owner cared...

The cloth used in such places was Stevens 100% wool - or an equiv -
faster than 860 and effectively just as thin.

Did you play in bowling alleys - were you EVER in a room in the 50s?

Dale
 
RKC, your work looks absolutely amazing, im stunned by the amount of work you have had to put in to learning all that. Too bad there are so many haters around here picking on you and your extraordinary work...

My hat is off to you, i would love to have my table set up by someone with your skills, equipment and knowledge :rolleyes:
 
pdcue said:
Sorry snake - my level of understanding is much better than yours, apparently.

Have someone explain the ref to poolrooms where the owner cared...

The cloth used in such places was Stevens 100% wool - or an equiv -
faster than 860 and effectively just as thin.

Did you play in bowling alleys - were you EVER in a room in the 50s?

Dale
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Dale, it was called Stevens 22oz, super weave and it was thicker than Simonis 760, there was no 860 at that time. Other cloths used at that time was Charles House, Warren, and Mali, and most of the cloth back then has a rayon backing on the cloth, even Simonis 760 was available with the rayon backing, so no, the cloth was slower back then. I've been playing pool since 1968, and working on pool tables since 1983, I'm sure I have more experience with the types of cloth used on pool tables than you do since this has been my skilled trade business over 32 years.
 
The Anniversaries, Centennials, and Gold Crowns were built back in the 40's, 50's & 60's. Who was Brunswicks biggest competition back in those days? Was the slate platform that far off level coming out of the factory at the time these tables were built, or did the frame get out of whack over time or through mis-handling. RKC, your fix for the problem looks very impressive, but would it have been needed when the tables were new?
 
realkingcobra said:
This is what the same frame looked like after I cut 1/8" of the top

View attachment 400194

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Glen... I'm not questioning your work as I think it's great. My question is about the floor and the stands the GC frame is sitting on.
Did you level the horses (stands) before working on the frame? It wouldn't make any difference except for the frame thickness.
The frame thickness, end to end and side to side, could be somewhat different. Guess that's what shims are for... just wondering.

.
 
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