Aside from everything else, saying that Allen should have walked after having the situation explained I don't think is right. The situation should have been handled differently (Not on Jay's part) on Barry's part. Allen was told he had a spot, he made his way to the event one way or another and paid hotel etc. He is out whatever money that is. Maybe BB instead of buying out the player to drop out he should have made the money right with Allen for his expenses and loss of potential income. After all it was BB's mistake. End of the day it should not cost Allen because of BB's Mistake.
Jay Helfert resigned as Tourney Director at the US Open
- Thread starter bfdlad
- Start date
Aside from everything else, saying that Allen should have walked after having the situation explained I don't think is right. The situation should have been handled differently (Not on Jay's part) on Barry's part. Allen was told he had a spot, he made his way to the event one way or another and paid hotel etc. He is out whatever money that is. Maybe BB instead of buying out the player to drop out he should have made the money right with Allen for his expenses and loss of potential income. After all it was BB's mistake. End of the day it should not cost Allen because of BB's Mistake.
I don't think this is on Allen. He wouldn't have tried to buy his way in since he was promised a spot by Barry.
This is ALL Barry's doing. Any us who know Barry know this.
I have dealt with Allen for 25 years, EVERY YEAR, and he is one of the classiest and honest people in the industry as far as I am concerned. If Barry told him he is in then he should have no need to check the list.
Barry put Jay on the spot and Jay had no choice but to resign. Why no one could have taken Jeremy Jones' spot is beyond me.
Yes, the situation should have been handled differently but it wasn't.
Hopkins has been around long enough to know exactly what Jay was telling him and why it'd be wrong to change the tournament chart at that point. But BB changed the chart and Hopkins went along with it. It's on him.
Lou Figueroa
People always want to compare pool to golf. So you think in the U.S. Open for golf, they would ask an lower level player to remove himself from the tourney so Lee Trevino could play? Here is the answer - Hell no.
JAM - I love that you instill loyalty in your being but you do it to a fault at times. The adage that 'this is pool and this is the way it has always been'. Well in case you haven't noticed -- it's not working. Tons of empty seats in those stands on the stream. You finally have the Taiwanese players over here who feel they get wronged every time they come step foot on our soil. What if it wasn't Kiamco that got to play Allen but it was Ko. And Allen beat him....not far fetched considering Karen beat Ko and I bet you can't find one person besides Karen that thought that was possible. Well if it was Ko and be lost to Allen, and then they found out Allen wasn't suppose to be in the I can promise you that the Taiwanese would have walked out and never returned. Remember - whoever said it is a slippery slope is exactly right.
You know what does work in pool these days? Integrity. Look at Oscar Dominguez and the Mezz West Tour. He, Desiree and their team turned nothing into something with 100 players per event. Why - cause they do it the right way every time. Not just some of the time. Not just when it effects someone they don't know personally or not. Or someone that could draw their ball better than anyone else in the world 40 years ago.
Look at Sourhwest cues. Laurie has her list and sticks to it. No one moves up the list. No one can buy your spot on the list. You can't walk in her shop and throw money at her and buy a cue. Your number comes up - you get a cue. If you change your mind, you don't get to ponder on it for a later time. You snooze you lose.
I won't point out the negatives and failures of pool. But the negatives -- You know who and what they are even if you don't want to admit it or except it.
Yes the Internet is a negative place. It is the nature of the beast. But I also learned in 8th grade history - the reason you study history is so you don't repeat the same mistakes. Some day maybe pool will do that. A wise friend of mine told me that pool will be changing very shortly as unfortunately some of these long time pool promotors will pass on. Hopefully who ever picks up the pieces takes the good and improves on it, leaving the worst of it behind.
Kudos again to Jay for making a stand and doing what is right.
Oh and Allen Jr - most people know me as Watchez so I use the name here. Come to the DCC next year - we can walk thru the halls together and see if people stop to talk to you or me.
JAM - I love that you instill loyalty in your being but you do it to a fault at times. The adage that 'this is pool and this is the way it has always been'. Well in case you haven't noticed -- it's not working. Tons of empty seats in those stands on the stream. You finally have the Taiwanese players over here who feel they get wronged every time they come step foot on our soil. What if it wasn't Kiamco that got to play Allen but it was Ko. And Allen beat him....not far fetched considering Karen beat Ko and I bet you can't find one person besides Karen that thought that was possible. Well if it was Ko and be lost to Allen, and then they found out Allen wasn't suppose to be in the I can promise you that the Taiwanese would have walked out and never returned. Remember - whoever said it is a slippery slope is exactly right.
You know what does work in pool these days? Integrity. Look at Oscar Dominguez and the Mezz West Tour. He, Desiree and their team turned nothing into something with 100 players per event. Why - cause they do it the right way every time. Not just some of the time. Not just when it effects someone they don't know personally or not. Or someone that could draw their ball better than anyone else in the world 40 years ago.
Look at Sourhwest cues. Laurie has her list and sticks to it. No one moves up the list. No one can buy your spot on the list. You can't walk in her shop and throw money at her and buy a cue. Your number comes up - you get a cue. If you change your mind, you don't get to ponder on it for a later time. You snooze you lose.
I won't point out the negatives and failures of pool. But the negatives -- You know who and what they are even if you don't want to admit it or except it.
Yes the Internet is a negative place. It is the nature of the beast. But I also learned in 8th grade history - the reason you study history is so you don't repeat the same mistakes. Some day maybe pool will do that. A wise friend of mine told me that pool will be changing very shortly as unfortunately some of these long time pool promotors will pass on. Hopefully who ever picks up the pieces takes the good and improves on it, leaving the worst of it behind.
Kudos again to Jay for making a stand and doing what is right.
Oh and Allen Jr - most people know me as Watchez so I use the name here. Come to the DCC next year - we can walk thru the halls together and see if people stop to talk to you or me.
The players list has been "Published" for months. It has been highly visible on accu-stats.com , azbilliards.com, usopen9ball.com, & other sites!!!
Your post is telling me and others that your father "Never" checked to see that his name was on the list???
He was not present at the players meeting? Not present at the draw? Not present on the first day of play?
But, upon arriving a day after play has began, he should be accommodated??? Despite the fairness issues and integrity of the event and those involved in the management of this larger production???
You are truly kidding yourself, if you can not see Allen Sr. part in this "Misunderstanding" / "Miscommunication" as you have described.
Sincerely,
KD
Dennis (Michael) Wilson Jr.
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This is utter bs. If you've been told that you have a spot by the guy who owns the tournament and travel to get there, there's no one in this thread who wouldn't fight a little to get in the tournament. All of this falls on BB and all those who say they'd cross their arms in disgust, pack up and drive back to NJ from Chesapeake are full of shit.
It's astounding to read how many moral models are in this pool forum today. Fuggin' Lou STOLE Mosconi's cue ball during an exhibition but Allen is a bad guy for wanting to play when he was told he could the entire time? GGGGTTTTFFFFOOOO
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This was not as you describe. You get there 2 days before the start and never check the chart. Never check the draw. Not at players meeting . Based on the time line that Jay , and Allen sr. & Jr. depicted. This could have been handled if Allen was "More " timely with notifying anyone about his name missing from the chart. Hopkins is omitting that he was not timely and omitting the "Fact" the draw was already done. This falls on Barry Berhman and no one else. To elude that this "remedy" was acceptable and ethical is really very far fetched.
KD
BS... Rich beam dropped outta Hong Kong so Ian Poulter could play to get on Rider Cup team
Sorry captain but sometimes its ok, even if the board is posted
I think I was alluding that the remedy is on Barry's hands and not Allen's. Furthermore, when someone like Lou who admitted stealing Mosconi's CB just to score a souvenir is making calls on the justness of tournament bracket ethicality is a joke. 3/4 of the pool playing guys posting about the justness and the ethics of this situation would prob let their friends bang their sister for a c-note if it meant they could buy back into a pill pool game after going bust, but they're posting on azb from the Vatican today, making moral judgement calls.
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Are we really here talking about Allen Hopkins being "owed" something from the pool world?
The guy that's made more off pool then any living human.
Runs an event with 1000 players, takes in 75k in entries, and the winner gets 5k?
Not to mention all the other events with the same payout structure.
Is this the same Allen that runs 1 event a year and makes more money off of it then the best players in the world make playing 12 full months?
This is that Allen, correct? He's owed something from the pool community? This is a crying shame. I'm so sorry you made travel plans and the other screwed up promoter this country has forgot to put you on the list, maybe he should of reimbursed you and had the tournament run without some drama for ONCE.
Do us all a favor and quit crying and come next April I'm sure you will make another 100k or more for a weekend of work as the pool players can't help but give it to you. They have no choice of anything else to play.
You should be ashamed
The guy that's made more off pool then any living human.
Runs an event with 1000 players, takes in 75k in entries, and the winner gets 5k?
Not to mention all the other events with the same payout structure.
Is this the same Allen that runs 1 event a year and makes more money off of it then the best players in the world make playing 12 full months?
This is that Allen, correct? He's owed something from the pool community? This is a crying shame. I'm so sorry you made travel plans and the other screwed up promoter this country has forgot to put you on the list, maybe he should of reimbursed you and had the tournament run without some drama for ONCE.
Do us all a favor and quit crying and come next April I'm sure you will make another 100k or more for a weekend of work as the pool players can't help but give it to you. They have no choice of anything else to play.
You should be ashamed
ElCorazonFrio
Banned
I think BB made some incredibly poor decisions and/or mistakes. I think you were in a difficult situation and anyone who besmirches you too harshly isn't being rational.
Reading Jay's post, I never got the feeling that he blamed you in the slightest about his walking away from the tourney. I can also see why what may be a perfectly decent agreement between you and BB might have seemed underhanded and low to someone who was in Jay's position.
Good luck and thank-you for a great post.
anybody bother to think how Allen's opponent had to feel and think about all this???
I must say it had to be "Unsettling" but some here don't want to talk about that!!!
KD
I must say it had to be "Unsettling" but some here don't want to talk about that!!!
KD
I'm sure Kiamco didn't give a shit. Pretty sure.
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I'm not sure why so many assume the guy was happy to give up his spot to Allen.
Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. But I find it a little hard to believe that someone paid their entry and made the effort to go to the US Open only to be happy that they could turn around and leave.
Considering how desperate Barry was (and swearing at Jay etc) to make this happen I have a feeling he probably just told the player that there was an error and he couldn't play. Not "asked" him nicely.
But I wasn't there. Just a thought that crossed my mind...
Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. But I find it a little hard to believe that someone paid their entry and made the effort to go to the US Open only to be happy that they could turn around and leave.
Considering how desperate Barry was (and swearing at Jay etc) to make this happen I have a feeling he probably just told the player that there was an error and he couldn't play. Not "asked" him nicely.
But I wasn't there. Just a thought that crossed my mind...
This is an excellent point.
exactly!
My whole point and argument was regarding the collateral damage from this. Other people are effected by this situation.
KD
The meat and potatoes, thank you sir! :thumbup:
Unlike Fran, I was not sure I knew how to spell Allen or how it all went down. I did guess right on the spelling and my instincts were right when I said, "Thumb up to Jay and thumbs down to Allen."
Sorry you had to post again Jay. Thanks for your integrity.:thumbup:
126 players
Jay
Didn't 2 players NO SHOW? leaving 2 players with BYE's? I heard only 126 players ended up in this event? Or is that not the FACTS?
That way Allen could have did a blind pick to replace 1 of the NO SHOW's?
Mark
Jay
Didn't 2 players NO SHOW? leaving 2 players with BYE's? I heard only 126 players ended up in this event? Or is that not the FACTS?
That way Allen could have did a blind pick to replace 1 of the NO SHOW's?
Mark