Jay Helfert resigned as Tourney Director at the US Open

BRussell

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My admin assistant is in for a pretty shitty day on Monday, if I start subscribing to the "Fran Crimi's book of business ethics".

To me this is the key. Jay saw this as a professional ethical issue. He said he's never once changed the brackets in all the tournaments he's run. I doubt there's a professional ethics board of pool tournament directors, but if there was, I'm sure that changing the published brackets at the request of a promoter would be a violation.

The business world and the rest of the real world are full of professional ethical guidelines, and people face these situations all the time. Imagine a manager telling one of their accountants to change the books just to take care of this one issue. Or a president saying to an attorney general to bend the rules just a little. We know it happens all the time. It might be for a good cause, it might not be a serious ethical breach, maybe no one would ever know.

But Fran is saying Jay should have compromised and worked something out. Just bend the ethical standards a teenie tiny bit. If that accountant or lawyer does that, it would be a clear ethical breach of their professional standards. For Jay it was exactly the same thing.

[edit] I want to ask Fran: Is there an ethics code for pool tournament directors? I believe you said you have been involved in rules committees, is this something that a rules committee could or should take on?
 
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Poolshootindon

Registered Pool Offender
Silver Member
Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but I think this this thread has been beat to death.

Time for a thread drift: Number, one, did everybody get paid?

Number two, token thread-drift photo taken yesterday. :)

JAM..Just don't click on the thread and there will be no problem for you.

This is a thread about doing what is right.

Quite simple. Jay did what was right.

Barry and Allen are wrong and should be called out for it.
 

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
JAM..Just don't click on the thread and there will be no problem for you.

This is a thread about doing what is right.

Quite simple. Jay did what was right.

Barry and Allen are wrong and should be called out for it.

Do me a favor. Please don't post to me ever again. I don't care for your sarcastic retorts.

And, FWIW, I'll click on whatever damn thread I feel like. :angry:

Furthermore, don't force your opinions on others. It's unbecoming. Everyone is entitled to their own.
 

DaveM

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but I think this this thread has been beat to death.

Time for a thread drift: Number, one, did everybody get paid?

Number two, token thread-drift photo taken yesterday. :)

Looks like there is still some interest for a few. Nice photo! :)
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Lou, I like you. I think you're smart cookie and a good guy but I'm afraid you're not right in this instance.


Fran, hugs and kisses right back at-cha but you are off base about what happened at The Open. Jay was hired to be the TD, not a flunky to twist and bend to BB's whims.

Lou Figueroa
 

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Looks like there is still some interest for a few. Nice photo! :)

Seems like this is more important than the fellow who won the Open in some eyes. It is a shame that so much attention is being devoted to this and not the new champion.

Thanks for the compliment on the photo. I'm not a photographer, but you don't need to be when the colors are in full bloom like they are now in my neck of the woods. :) Can you hear the crunch of the leaves?
 

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lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Actually Lou there are countless posts with people saying exactly that.

IMHO : Jay standing up for what he thinks is right - awesome
Ideal conditions - no
Barry messing up - yes
Allen to blame - no
Cheating - no

I can def see everyone's point of view and understand where they are coming from. What I don't see it as is cheating, nor being a huge deal as most are making it out to be.


Saying there was cheating?! Or perhaps Jay was trying to avoid the appearance of cheating and eliminate any charges of impropriety. I know some explained how changing the tournament chart after it was posted could look like cheating but not that there was actual cheating. After almost 600 posts it's a little tough to remember :)

Lou Figueroa
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Do me a favor. Please don't post to me ever again. I don't care for your sarcastic retorts.

And, FWIW, I'll click on whatever damn thread I feel like. :angry:

Furthermore, don't force your opinions on others. It's unbecoming. Everyone is entitled to their own.


I believe what he's trying to say is: don't go into a strip club and then be upset because pretty girls are still taking off their cloths. Of course you're free to go into the strip club in the first place.

Lou Figueroa
best analogy I could
come up with
on short notice :)
 

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I believe what he's trying to say is: don't go into a strip club and then be upset because pretty girls are still taking off their cloths. Of course you're free to go into the strip club in the first place.

Lou Figueroa
best analogy I could
come up with
on short notice :)

One of the strippers is a friend of ours. :smile:

The fact that Allen got to the Open 2 days early to practice, believing he was on the chart, told he was in the tournament, that is a travesty. Somebody made a mistake. It was an oversight. What happened thereafter is blown up into nightmare discourse on this forum.
 

DaveM

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
One of the strippers is a friend of ours. :smile:

I'd say something about racks and rails here but that is a different thread.
Yes I can hear and smell the leaves in your photo, makes me want to take a trip
"upstate", (what us Longuylanduhs call anything north of the Bronx).
 
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JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Great. Hope you brought some dollar bills.

Lou Figueroa
make it rain

If you do the post count on this thread, as one member took the time to do -- :rotflmao1::rotflmao1::rotflmao1: -- I'm making it rain on this thread more than anyone else.

This ---> HERE
 

tableroll

Rolling Thunder
Silver Member
Barry is a huge distraction to pool. I can not stand that he loves to listen to his own drivel and wants everyone else to listen to his stuttering, stammering gibberish. He loves his microphone so much, the play could not get started.
 

HouTexPlayer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It really condenses down to this:

Barry (as the owner of the US Open) made the decision to overrule Jay as the Tournament Director when Jay had made a hard and firm ruling.

We as a group may agree or not agree with either or both actions - but as we don't own the tournament, nor we were involved in it other than spectating from afar our opinions (while valid to us) really don't matter a bit in the overall process.

Jay felt that this decision wasn't fair or valid and not in the best interests of the event and that he could not longer serve as the TD so he resigned.

Take everything else out of the equation and that's what you're left with - a decision and a reaction to that decision - things like this are not uncommon in the business or pool world - I personally think Jay did the right thing for himself and for the event as you can't operate as a TD wondering if the owner is going to overrule the calls/decisions you make - but that's my opinion - I have no real horse in this race.
 
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Poolshootindon

Registered Pool Offender
Silver Member
Do me a favor. Please don't post to me ever again. I don't care for your sarcastic retorts.

And, FWIW, I'll click on whatever damn thread I feel like. :angry:

Furthermore, don't force your opinions on others. It's unbecoming. Everyone is entitled to their own.

Then do us all a favor. Don't try to force your "opinions" on anyone also. I believe in post #580 you said "Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but I think this this thread has been beat to death".

"Time for a thread drift":

I hope you're able to see the hypocrisy in your statements.

And I will post to any thread that I feel like. All you have to do is ignore them if they make you angry.

This is a public forum. Enjoy your weekend.

Don :smile::smile:
 

Poolshootindon

Registered Pool Offender
Silver Member
It really condenses down to this:

Barry (as the owner of the US Open) made the decision to overrule Jay as the Tournament Director when Jay had made a hard and firm ruling.

We as a group may agree or not agree with either or both actions - but as we don't own the tournament, nor we were involved in it other than spectating from afar our opinions (while valid to us) really don't matter a bit in the overall process.

Jay felt that this decision wasn't fair or valid and not in the best interests of the event and that he could not longer serve as the TD so he resigned.

Take everything else out of the equation and that's what you're left with - a decision and a reaction to that decision - things like this are not uncommon in the business or pool world - I personally think Jay did the right thing for himself and for the event as you can't operate as a TD wondering if the owner is going to overrule the calls/decisions you make - but that's my opinion - I have no real horse in this race.

You are dead on. Jay has his integrity to uphold. Barry on the other hand has none.

For the sake of the U.S. Open it would be great if Barry was just gone. Maybe give Barry a lifetime supply of booze.
 

poolguy4u

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
:cool:



Just remember...without Barry there would be no US Open.

Big tournaments have come and gone but Barry keeps on going on every year.



If you don't like it, start your own tournament and see how it goes.

I can't believe all the cry babies on this forum...people that don't even play

in the US Open just want to cry about something:crying:.





,
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Dear Fran, thanks for your contributions to this thread and your opinion on what I should have done other than what I did do. As you can see none of that will change now after the fact. Bottom line is that Barry fired me for not going along with his plan to get ALLEN into the tournament and rather than beg his forgiveness I quit.

I first knew this was coming at 7:30 Sunday morning (the first day of the tournament) when I got a text from Barry telling me that I had to put Allen in the tournament. After I responded that I couldn't do that since we had already done the draw the night before and posted it, he persisted in making more texts which became increasingly hostile and profane. I then called Allen in his room at 8 AM and told him that he could not get into the tournament, even though Barry had made an oversight in leaving his name off the list of past champions. The issue as to why this happened was between Barry and Allen! Allen said that he understood and that he didn't care if he played or not. I thought the problem had been solved.

How wrong I was! Barry went into hyper-drive about getting Allen into the field by hook or crook. He began exploring ways to find a player (any player) who would withdraw and give Allen his spot. He went so far as to post a notice to this effect by the tournament chart at mid day. I continued to go about my business as TD, hoping that no one would go along with this scheme of Barry's.

It has never been easy to run this event (I returned home sick last year) and this year I was left to pretty much shoulder it on my own. There was no Ken Shuman (a previous Barry fire), no Bill Stock, no John Leyman to help with the myriad tasks involved in making this event run smoothly. I had only Karl Kantrowitz to assist me as a referee, a good man but not the co-director that I needed. I was left to do the work of three men. It's not as simple as "just showing up" as you so innocently described it here. In fact I prepare for several weeks to do this job, communicating with Barry and Pat to make sure things are in order.

So on the first day of the event (after having done the players meeting and draw the evening before) I was faced with running a very difficult tournament on my own and dealing with an out of control promoter who was breathing down my neck asking me to bend my ethics to cover up his failures. I refused!

Unbeknown to me Barry had found a candidate who was willing to withdraw from the tournament for a nice settlement (more than his entry fee!). It may have helped him to make that decision knowing he was facing Warren Kiamco in the first round. So during the dinner break Barry had one of his workers white out the name of the player and write in Allen Hopkins name. I found this out when I returned from a quick dinner. No one was willing to do this while I was around! Barry then left a message on my phone saying I was fired. I continued to work the rest of the night (until after 1 AM) posting up the results, officiating the matches and scheduling the next two days of matches on the tournament board.

Barry never showed his face or spoke to me in person after his nefarious plan was enacted. He knew how I felt about it. I think you get the gist of what was at stake here from all the posters who understand what integrity is. I could have stayed (once again begging the forgiveness of Lord Barry) and just compromised my principles and tacitly condoned what had gone on, leaving my ethics at the door.

For me Fran, it was a Sophie's Choice. I couldn't win either way. If I stay I'm part of what went on and if I leave I deserted my post. I did my best to prepare Scott (our emcee) to take over in my absence, leaving him all the materials I use to run things. The man that I brought in to assist me (Bobby Chamberlain) was willing to stay and help out, even though Barry at first wanted him off my team. Barry needed Bobby now so he switched course and asked him to stay on.

I talked with several players that night and told them what had happened (none of them agreed with Barry and what he did) and that in good conscience I could not stay as TD. Whatever authority I had was now gone and Barry could continue to do things his way, right or wrong. Pat Fleming also asked me to stay, and he tried to rectify things and get Allen to not play. Unsuccessfully I might add.

I couldn't sleep that night, knowing what was ahead. The combination of Barry's abusive texts, feeling totally exhausted after only one day and then being asked to look the other way while the tournament board was compromised was a little more than I could bear. Unless you were in my shoes Fran you wouldn't have any idea what I was going through. It may have been the hardest decision I've ever made as a TD to accept Barry's firing and leave, but for me it was the right one to make. And I would do it again under similar circumstances.

I flew home the next day (on Monday) and slept good on the long flight back to California. I woke up with no self doubts, knowing that I had done the right thing, and in the end that's what matters most to me. Not how people feel about what I did, but how I feel about what I did. To thine own self be true and I was!
 
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couldnthinkof01

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So, Allen was a innocent bystander huh. Nice work Jay hopefully people will follow your lead so pool can grow with respect. Barry Behrman should never again have a sanctioned tournament with any w.p.a. or governing body. When will we get respect and money in pool? When powers that be learn we have to step up and do the right thing!
 
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