Jay Helfert resigned as Tourney Director at the US Open
- Thread starter bfdlad
- Start date
guys- this isnt a weekend open tourney at a local poolroom...there is no soft draw.btw most good players dont think like that anyway
to be the best you have to beat the best
You still don't get it. Try to really think it out this time. I didn't say Allen got a soft draw. I didn't say that this was done in this case to try to give any advantage to Allen. What I said is that if exceptions are ever allowed for changing a posted bracket it can and will at times be used for blatant cheating just like I described. And much and maybe even most of the time a bracket is changed after it was posted many people are going to suspect cheating even if there was none and now you have lost the integrity and trust in your event with those players because of it.
It all comes down to which of these two ways of having an event you feel is most important.
1. Having events where cheating by bracket manipulation of the type I described literally cannot take place, ever, nor can it ever be suspected. The integrity of the event is kept and players and fans have full trust in it and know without doubt nothing shady is going on with posted brackets. The trade off is that on rare occasion if somebody gets left off the bracket on accident they are going to miss that event.
Or
2. Having events where cheating of the type I mentioned can and does happen. People will hook up their buddies with better draws. And even when changes to the bracket are legitimate, lots of people are going to suspect that it was actually done for cheating purposes. This means those people no longer have any trust and faith in the honesty of that event. When that happens, the people who have lost trust in it tend to stop playing and supporting it. They won't play somewhere where they believe cheating is happening or can happen. Not to mention many of those people that end up with tougher matches because of a bracket change are going to be pissed as hell about it even if they don't suspect it was done for cheating purposes. Some of them are going to want to stop supporting the event because of that too. In exchange for all that cheating, and players suspecting cheating and having no faith in the honesty of your event and all the players who are pissed off at how bracket changes affected them the good news is that if somebody was accidentally left off the bracket you can just change the bracket and put them in and that one player doesn't get screwed. Of course the whole field will be getting scammed and screwed at times but oh well.
So, you get cheating, players suspecting cheating even when there wasn't any, no trust in the integrity of your events, and many pissed off players due to the bracket changes, but the one guy that got forgotten on the bracket isn't going to get screwed. Or, the guy that gets accidentally left off the bracket unfortunately gets screwed and doesn't get to play this time around but the event will never have any of that bracket cheating, never have anybody even wrongly suspect it (since it can't happen), never have pissed off players due to match changes, and your event maintains its integrity and always has the very highest levels of trust from all the players and fans. Which of the two is better is clear to me. The integrity of the event, which can or does affect everyone and because it can cause the event to fail and no longer exist or because the whole field can get screwed is much more important than any one single player who might be getting screwed due to an honest mistake.
But to be the Best of the Best, you have to travel to Korea and beat Dae Han Park......... :thumbup:
A forum is not a forum, if you dont rib the shit out of each other........... :thumbup:
Tap, tap, tap.
You don't walk out in the middle of a major event. Nobody would have blamed Jay for staying. NOBODY. In fact, it's the opposite.
Barry was used to maintaining control of the roster, and this time it was different. If you've ever done something the same way for decades and then suddenly you're doing it differently, you're bound to make a mistake or forget something.
You're all trying to turn this into a cheating event. It's not. You can take as many polls here as you want but I know a lot of people in our industry who don't post here and what they're saying, and I happen to agree with them. So, the fact that Barry was able to come up with $70,000 (or whatever that figure was), wasn't good enough for you? I don't know about you all, but I'm impressed. I didn't think he could do it. But that's not good enough for you all. In your eyes he's still a criminal because he forgot to add Allen Hopkins to the roster and tried to fix the problem. Seriously? Get down off your high horses and get real and commend the guy for what he was able to do here instead of beating him to the ground. Instead you're applauding the TD who didn't have to sweat and toil and beg to get this event done. He just had so show up, and if necessary, do damage control, and he even failed at that.
There were possible solutions to be explored. None of those possibilities were even discussed because Jay walked out.
Barry was used to maintaining control of the roster, and this time it was different. If you've ever done something the same way for decades and then suddenly you're doing it differently, you're bound to make a mistake or forget something.
You're all trying to turn this into a cheating event. It's not. You can take as many polls here as you want but I know a lot of people in our industry who don't post here and what they're saying, and I happen to agree with them. So, the fact that Barry was able to come up with $70,000 (or whatever that figure was), wasn't good enough for you? I don't know about you all, but I'm impressed. I didn't think he could do it. But that's not good enough for you all. In your eyes he's still a criminal because he forgot to add Allen Hopkins to the roster and tried to fix the problem. Seriously? Get down off your high horses and get real and commend the guy for what he was able to do here instead of beating him to the ground. Instead you're applauding the TD who didn't have to sweat and toil and beg to get this event done. He just had so show up, and if necessary, do damage control, and he even failed at that.
There were possible solutions to be explored. None of those possibilities were even discussed because Jay walked out.
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Anyone know what a bye to the final would co$t me? That's the tone I'm taking from everyone on this.
I have a theory here : being absent the usual suspects; ie payout issues there NEEDED to be something for everyone to be outraged about.
You do if someone is trying to force you to compromise your integrity. But good to know that you would compromise your integrity and go along with it if the promoter asked you to do something you felt was completely unethical. Duly noted.
What other possible solutions are there that don't involve changing the bracket in any way? I can't think of any but perhaps I am missing something.
The way I understand it (and nobody has disputed it) is that it wasn't open for discussion on Barry's end anyway. Barry gave the order to buy someone's spot out so Allen could take their place and it wasn't open to negotiation on his end. And when it didn't happen he just bought out a player and changed the bracket himself because that is the only thing that was acceptable to him. Do you have information that this was not in fact Barry's firm position on the matter after all?
You are completely wrong. If word got out that Jay had aided and abetted BB in changing the chart after it'd been posted a massive load of ca-ca would have rained down on him here.
And no one is trying to turn it into something about cheating. People are trying to turn this into something about integrity.
Lastly, trying to justify what happened based upon the completely and totally irrelevant issue of funding for the tournament is ludicrous.
Lou Figueroa
Lou, I like you. I think you're smart cookie and a good guy but I'm afraid you're not right in this instance.
lfigueroa;5344886 And no one is trying to turn it into something about cheating. Lou Figueroa[/QUOTE said:
Hi Fran;
I def appreciate your point of view but I believe, according to Jay, it went a little different than that.
Sounded to me like Jay, as Tournament Director, made the call that since Allen wasn't in the draw, oversight or not, that once the brackets were set, they were set.
I can fully understand the desire not to fool with brackets once they are drawn so as not to have any appearance of impropriety. To my mind, this is something *all* US Open personnel should be extremely keen on, given the Open's rocky track record over the last, at least, decade.
The "solutions to be explored", I think those did actually occur and, as Jay described them, they were rather one-sided and laced with obscenities from Barry.
Bottom line; Jay was the TD and in charge of the event's competition side, he made a call, explained it to Allen who reportedly said he was okay with that decision, then next morning Jay wakes up to a match being called featuring Allen, for the TV table, no less.
Call me Madcap, but to me this sounds like Jay's authority was undermined; a real slap in the face. How do you think he should he have reacted to that? And before giving your answer, please remember what a peach Barry had been to chat with about this.
You might think Jay was being unduly rigid but, again, if you take a couple of steps back and look objectively at it, perhaps you'll give him the benefit of doubt that all he was trying to do was his job, and that included ensuring integrity, the best he could.
Unfortunately, it looks like Jay knew he was in a losing battle as far as trying to maintain the tourney's integrity, but at the same time, he also knew he didn't have to trade in his own. :thumbup:
It's amazing how many awkward and unpleasant occurances there have been that are so easily traceable straight back to Barry. :angry:
best,
brian kc
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So, the Coles Notes summary is: a drunkard with a history of financial issues in paying prize money, who is able to raise $70k to put on an event, is allowed to verbally abuse and insult his tournament director because he did more work behind the scenes in putting on the tournament. Got it.
My admin assistant is in for a pretty shitty day on Monday, if I start subscribing to the "Fran Crimi's book of business ethics".
