Jay Helfert resigned as Tourney Director at the US Open
- Thread starter bfdlad
- Start date
I've been curious about the Jeremy Jones mixup.
I'm pretty sure a couple of people there know what he looks like.
Didn't anyone realize he wasn't there!!!!!!!!!
If Allen went in his spot there wouldn't have been any problems so who's fault is that one???
Jay, Pat or Barry?
I'm pretty sure a couple of people there know what he looks like.
Didn't anyone realize he wasn't there!!!!!!!!!
If Allen went in his spot there wouldn't have been any problems so who's fault is that one???
Jay, Pat or Barry?
What has really got me upset is that the US Open is toughed as the most prestigious event in the world, etc. If that's the case how can bracket tampering even be considered once the draw is concluded?
Hell, the guy who runs the $5 weekly tourney at Nick's Ice House refuses to change the bracket once it's drawn.
I don't get it...
Hell, the guy who runs the $5 weekly tourney at Nick's Ice House refuses to change the bracket once it's drawn.
I don't get it...
See post #524....
I just think Barry has a criminal mind. It's the norm for him to act in scandalous ways. He's crooked and corrupt. It's just the way he's wired. I guess nothing he does should be shocking to anyone...
Roger that....
The one thing Barry was in charge of regarding entries was to provide Pat Fleming with a correct list of free entries who were past champions. Pat went by what Barry provided to him. Maybe we were expecting too much for Barry to get this one thing right. After all he had other priorities which I prefer not to discuss on here.
Allen's beef is with Barry, since he is the one who dropped the ball on his entry. And Allen should know better than to trust the word of someone who has proven to be untrustworthy. He could have checked with Pat or myself at any time prior to us doing the draw or actually been there while we did it in the tournament arena. He didn't bother to do any of these things, simply ASSUMING that Barry had taken care of him.
Shame on all of us for putting our faith in the wrong 'man', and I use that term loosely.
The plaque should be thrown in the garbage.
Jay what do you think about FranCrimi's posts saying that you should have stayed and tried to work something out?
Jay might have made the exact same call and still not allowed it but only he can say. The problem is not in who was replaced, or in how much they were or were not paid off to step aside, but that the tournament bracket was already final and public.
Let me give you a hypothetical situation for next year. Barry works out a deal to back SVB in the US Open and also places large bets on SVB with people on the side. Before the start of the tournament he sets up the bracket with Jeremy Jones name on it, but he already knows Jeremy cannot attend and will not be attending. He makes sure Jeremy has a real easy draw on the bracket. He also "forgets" to put SVB down on the bracket.
So sometime after the bracket is out but before the tournament starts Barry suddenly realizes the big "mistake" they have made in "accidentally" leaving SVB off the sign up list and brackets even though SVB signed up and paid months ago. It just so happens that they also realize the big "mistake" they made in having Jeremy on the bracket when he isn't actually going to be attending. Well no problem Barry tells everyone, it just so happens that it works out that we can just put SVB into Jeremy's slot since Jeremy isn't playing.
And many like yourself are perfectly happy with how this goes down and are none the wiser. In fact you are thinking that ended up working out incredibly well in the end and no harm no foul for anyone. Except that Barry was actually cheating, got his horse a hand picked soft draw that gives him an advantage over the field and Barry will likely be laughing all the way to the bank with all the big bucks he will probably make from the arrangement. Meanwhile the whole rest of the field got cheated.
The same cheat can be worked differently too. Instead of rigging it with a non-attending player like Jeremy on the bracket like in the example above, Barry could just look at the bracket after the draw and buy out someone with a softer draw so he could fix his "mistake" of having "accidentally" left SVB off the sign up list. And not only will nobody know it was actually a cheat, Barry will look like a great problem solver for being able to get SVB back into the event and will even get praise and accolades for paying out of his pocket to buy out that volunteer's spot. Meanwhile Barry will laugh all the way to the bank with the profits the scam will net him.
My question to you is this. Are you ok with Barry or any other tournament promoter or director pulling this type of scam? If any changes are allowed to the brackets after they have been posted then there is nothing that stops the above or similar cheats from being able to happen and of course the person setting up the scam is going to set it up in a way that looks above board like subbing in the "forgotten" player for the non-attending player like a Jeremy. The only way to prevent these type cheats is with a "no changes to final posted brackets for any reason" rule with no exception (because the cheat will just use a good exception excuse), which is why that rule is standard practice and why Jay put his foot down so firmly in this case.
The other problem is that if you allow changes to final public brackets, even if no cheating ever takes place, players are still going to suspect it when there are bracket changes. And if players suspect cheating the event has now completely lost its integrity and trustworthiness in the eyes of the players. To have an event that can fully be trusted, which is of the utmost importance to everyone, things must be done in a way that removes any chance that cheating can take place which in turns removes any chance for suspicion of it. And the way you do that is to not allow changes to final posted brackets even for "special exceptions". Now you have an event full of integrity that players can trust and believe in.
(To be clear, all names above were picked at random or because they made good examples considering the specific things that happened this year and there is no insinuation being made that any of the specific names listed above have or would pull any cheats.)
Good story. I also understand what your saying but, Allen did not in fact have a soft draw. Also inferring that Barry could rig the whole draw would infer the Jay would have had to be in on it and we all know that's not the case whatsoever.
I know this is much to ask since it's Barry's show, but one would think that an RSVP would be sent well ahead of the event to know which former winners are claiming a spot and plan to play.
Doing this allows for PAID entries to be figured into the prize fund as well while knowing what the TRUE and ACCURATE cut-off limit will be.
At a minimum, past winners should check-in to let folks know they are there and prepared to play in hopes of derailing any situation such is unfolding here.
Jay, next year when you TD I encourage you to look at this as an option. Send out a press release to any past champion to have at least up to date contact information in case they elect to play in future events. Otherwise, they can be a spectator.
Doing this allows for PAID entries to be figured into the prize fund as well while knowing what the TRUE and ACCURATE cut-off limit will be.
At a minimum, past winners should check-in to let folks know they are there and prepared to play in hopes of derailing any situation such is unfolding here.
Jay, next year when you TD I encourage you to look at this as an option. Send out a press release to any past champion to have at least up to date contact information in case they elect to play in future events. Otherwise, they can be a spectator.
NYC cue dude
Banned
I posted this on 8/20/15 @ 1:30 pm
Hi Jay,
You and I both know that not everyone got paid on time. And further, you also know that even though the money was in escrow, at the time payouts were due, Barry fought tooth and nail to distribute the money, HIMSELF. Because Johnny's own credibility was on the line, he forced Barry into compliance. But only after threats of physical violence, threats of law suits and the possibility of law enforcement involvement. Yes, it got that bad. Still, I AM 100% CERTAIN YOU ALREADY KNOW THIS. Please don't try to mitigate the damage Barry has already done to his own credibility and the viability of his event.
I'm a huge believer in your and Pat's abilities. Not to mention your integrity. I know about some of the things you've done in the past, at great personal financial sacrifice. There's no doubt in my mind that if given the opportunity to turn this event into the premiere US event it has been historically, you will do it. But that is going to require Barry relinquishing all financial control. Will you actually get that opportunity, come crunch time? Only time will tell. I'd advise you to prepare for last minute shenanigans. Prior planning prevents poor performance.
Hi Jay,
You and I both know that not everyone got paid on time. And further, you also know that even though the money was in escrow, at the time payouts were due, Barry fought tooth and nail to distribute the money, HIMSELF. Because Johnny's own credibility was on the line, he forced Barry into compliance. But only after threats of physical violence, threats of law suits and the possibility of law enforcement involvement. Yes, it got that bad. Still, I AM 100% CERTAIN YOU ALREADY KNOW THIS. Please don't try to mitigate the damage Barry has already done to his own credibility and the viability of his event.
I'm a huge believer in your and Pat's abilities. Not to mention your integrity. I know about some of the things you've done in the past, at great personal financial sacrifice. There's no doubt in my mind that if given the opportunity to turn this event into the premiere US event it has been historically, you will do it. But that is going to require Barry relinquishing all financial control. Will you actually get that opportunity, come crunch time? Only time will tell. I'd advise you to prepare for last minute shenanigans. Prior planning prevents poor performance.
How about this. The powers that be (wpa, bca, csi, accu stats) whoever does such things, get behind a fella like Jay Helfert and about this time next year have the all american open. West coast, something to be proud of, sponsors that would like a little back bone. Please put an end to this babysat sideshow run by bozo the drunken clown. On the international level we look retarded, for lack of a better term.
Once the bracket is drawn it is frozen?
"next year when you TD"? Err, what?
I say we all put Jay in next year ( not that he couldn't put himself in ) and just sit back and watch him snap it off!
I clearly said it was a hypothetical situation that occurs next year in my made up example. The point is simply that cheating can be done a number of ways if brackets are allowed to be changed after being posted. The only way to prevent this kind of cheating is not to allow bracket changes for any reason no exceptions, otherwise the cheater will just use whatever exception is considered acceptable as the excuse they use for why they changed the bracket when pulling their cheat.
As far as Jay having to be involved, I also don't think he would pull something like this. But not all the players know him well, and some would likely suspect it if Jay allowed the brackets to be changed after being posted. And now your event has lost trust among many of the players. You know what prevents this loss of trust though? Just not allowing bracket changes for any reason after they are posted. Now Jay can't even be wrongly suspected of this cheat by anyone and you maintain the integrity of the event. The integrity of the event is more important than any one player.
My bad. I guess I shouldn't assume that Jay will participate next year given the current state of affairs but I didn't think he would this year either given last year's current state of affairs.
It was only a suggestion if by chance he should try to ride that bull just one more time.