MARK WILSON Phase3 and Phase 4

[AtLarge]

To what extent is this due to poor kicking by the US and to what extent is it due to more safeties by Europe? I don't mean to give you more work AtLarge, but I'm just thinking out loud that it seems from those numbers like the US had poor kicking, but if they missed 12 out of 18 and Europe missed 4 out of 18, that's quite different than the US missing 12 out of 18 and Europe missing 4 out of 6. The first suggests poor kicking, the second suggests a lack of safety play.

OK; the bill is in the mail.

First, a couple corrections. Last night, I attributed one of the USA's missed kicks to Deuel when it should have been Dechaine. And I didn't include Bergman's scratch on his final shot of the event, kicking at the 8-ball after hooking himself. So I now have Team USA for 13 fouls on kicks (Woodward 4, Bergman 4, Dechaine 3, Deuel 1, and Van Boening 1).

As to the total number of kicks, I went through my notes rather quickly and spotted 30 for USA and 34 for Europe. So that would make it 13 fouls on 30 kicks for USA (43% fouls) and 4 fouls on 34 kicks for Europe (12% fouls).

But jumping after a safety is often an alternative to kicking, so how did they do on jumping? I find 3 fouls on 13 jumps for USA (23% fouls) and 4 fouls on 16 jumps for Europe (25% fouls).

And then adding together both forms of attempted escape, we have 16 fouls on 43 jumps and kicks for USA (37% fouls) and 8 fouls on 50 jumps and kicks for Europe (16% fouls).

 

[ENGLISH!]

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[alstl]

Justin played/gambled in places in St Louis like The Sportscenter and Ride the Rail or Billiards on Broadway. He learned how to take the heat - that is why he played the best under the pressure of the MC.

Exactly. Before I moved away from St Louis I played in tournaments with Justin when he was younger. It is comical to suggest he would fall apart by having Earl on the team.

 

[BRussell]

As to the total number of kicks, I went through my notes rather quickly and spotted 30 for USA and 34 for Europe. So that would make it 13 fouls on 30 kicks for USA (43% fouls) and 4 fouls on 34 kicks for Europe (12% fouls).

But jumping after a safety is often an alternative to kicking, so how did they do on jumping? I find 3 fouls on 13 jumps for USA (23% fouls) and 4 fouls on 16 jumps for Europe (25% fouls).

And then adding together both forms of attempted escape, we have 16 fouls on 43 jumps and kicks for USA (37% fouls) and 8 fouls on 50 jumps and kicks for Europe (16% fouls).

Thanks, wow so Europe actually kicked & jumped more than the US, but made 1/2 the errors. That really tells a story.

 

[watchez]

OK; the bill is in the mail.

First, a couple corrections. Last night, I attributed one of the USA's missed kicks to Deuel when it should have been Dechaine. And I didn't include Bergman's scratch on his final shot of the event, kicking at the 8-ball after hooking himself. So I now have Team USA for 13 fouls on kicks (Woodward 4, Bergman 4, Dechaine 3, Deuel 1, and Van Boening 1).

As to the total number of kicks, I went through my notes rather quickly and spotted 30 for USA and 34 for Europe. So that would make it 13 fouls on 30 kicks for USA (43% fouls) and 4 fouls on 34 kicks for Europe (12% fouls).

But jumping after a safety is often an alternative to kicking, so how did they do on jumping? I find 3 fouls on 13 jumps for USA (23% fouls) and 4 fouls on 16 jumps for Europe (25% fouls).

And then adding together both forms of attempted escape, we have 16 fouls on 43 jumps and kicks for USA (37% fouls) and 8 fouls on 50 jumps and kicks for Europe (16% fouls).

Just an FYI - Mark doesn't normally read AZ (you can imagine why) but I did send him this info. Mark uses the metric that every ball in hand = 1.14 racks lost. So the USA being at a -8 fouls vs Europe computes to approx. 10 games lost.

 

[sjm]

Bergman hooking himself was NOT a bad roll.

No, just a bad mistake .... and it virtually ended any hope of a Team USA victory. Bergman will be a year wiser next year and will do better than 1-2 in singles. Fine player on the rise, but let's not delude ourselves -- this year, the biggest moment of the Mosconi was too big for him.

With Bergman, SVB, Woodward and Dechaine a combined 2-7 in singles, it's truly remarkable that we only lost 11-7.

 

[SmoothStroke]

SmoothStroke,
That particular video is about choking and while it is a great video,the kicking deficit by the USA team had nothing to do with choking, imo.

One on one lessons with a successful sports psychologist is the way to go for improving the mental game.

Like you, I have learned plenty about the mental game in recent years by mining the Internet but have also spent money working directly with sport psychologists.

JoeyA

P.S. Still need massive work on mental game.

I just grabbed a video and linked it in, it wasn't meant to say they choked. That video should take you to everything you are looking for and then some.

If you are interested search Dr. Patrick Cohn or Dr John Mathers, there is a ton of info and that should also take you to other links for the brain, it's endless, keep an open mind,,hahaha. If you don't find it send me a message and I will get you all the links. It's not one on one with a psychologist but it can't hurt to study them.


Hope it helps
Sincerely:SS

 

[AtLarge]

Just an FYI - Mark doesn't normally read AZ (you can imagine why) but I did send him this info. Mark uses the metric that every ball in hand = 1.14 racks lost. So the USA being at a -8 fouls vs Europe computes to approx. 10 games lost.

For completeness on comparing balls-in-hand (total fouls), we need to add the other types of fouls to the kicking and jumping fouls.

USA committed 3 breaking fouls (1 by SVB and 2 by Woodward) and 7 other fouls that were not on kicks or jumps -- 4 fouls while making a ball, 1 while playing safe, 1 missing a swerve shot from a partial hook, and 1 by hitting another ball with the CB on the way to the intended OB. So in total the USA committed 26 fouls (3 breaking, 13 on kicks, 3 on jumps, and 7 other).

The distribution of the 26 fouls by USA was 3 for SVB, 5 for Deuel, 4 for Dechaine, and 7 each for Bergman and Woodward.

Europe committed 4 breaking fouls (all by Boyes!), and just 3 other fouls that were not on kicks or jumps -- one by Appleton when he was down for a shot and inadvertently touched the 8-ball, and two by Ouschan in the event's final match (one on a miss and one on a safety). So in total Europe committed 15 fouls (4 breaking, 4 on kicks, 4 on jumps, and 3 other).

The distribution of the 15 fouls by Europe was 4 for Feijen, 2 for Appleton, 1 for van den Berg, 5 for Boyes, and 3 for Ouschan.

 

[sjm]

For completeness on comparing balls-in-hand (total fouls), we need to add the other types of fouls to the kicking and jumping fouls.

USA committed 3 breaking fouls (1 by SVB and 2 by Woodward) and 7 other fouls that were not on kicks or jumps -- 4 fouls while making a ball, 1 while playing safe, 1 missing a swerve shot from a partial hook, and 1 by hitting another ball with the CB on the way to the intended OB. So in total the USA committed 26 fouls (3 breaking, 13 on kicks, 3 on jumps, and 7 other).

The distribution of the 26 fouls by USA was 3 for SVB, 5 for Deuel, 4 for Dechaine, and 7 each for Bergman and Woodward.

Europe committed 4 breaking fouls (all by Boyes!), and just 3 other fouls that were not on kicks or jumps -- one by Appleton when he was down for a shot and inadvertently touched the 8-ball, and two by Ouschan in the event's final match (one on a miss and one on a safety). So in total Europe committed 15 fouls (4 breaking, 4 on kicks, 4 on jumps, and 3 other).

The distribution of the 15 fouls by Europe was 4 for Feijen, 2 for Appleton, 1 for van den Berg, 5 for Boyes, and 3 for Ouschan.

To make this complete, and I'm definitely not asking you to do so, you'd have to include the cost of misplayed safeties by team USA. If kicking fouls cost us about 10 games (13 - 4) x 1.14, I'd guess poor defense cost us just as many games. If so, that would be 20 games lost because of inadequacy in the moves game, which is more than one rack per race to 5 (as 18 races were contested). Put another way, our inadequacy in the moves game alone is worth about one on the wire in a race to five to Europe. That's a huge spot!

 

[AtLarge]

To make this complete, and I'm definitely not asking you to do so, you'd have to include the cost of misplayed safeties by team USA. If kicking fouls cost us about 10 games (13 - 4) x 1.14, I'd guess poor defense cost us just as many games. If so, that would be 20 games lost because of inadequacy in the moves game, which is more than one rack per race to 5 (as 18 races were contested). Put another way, our inadequacy in the moves game alone is worth about one on the wire in a race to five to Europe. That's a huge spot!

Yes. What Accu-Stats calls a "safety error" gets at that -- when the opponent makes a ball on his next shot after the safety or misses a shot that is easier than a spot shot. Sometimes a safety error costs the player or side the game and sometimes it doesn't, but it is one good measure for judging defensive play.

 

[JoeyA]

All good!

JoeyA

I just grabbed a video and linked it in, it wasn't meant to say they choked. That video should take you to everything you are looking for and then some.

If you are interested search Dr. Patrick Cohn or Dr John Mathers, there is a ton of info and that should also take you to other links for the brain, it's endless, keep an open mind,,hahaha. If you don't find it send me a message and I will get you all the links. It's not one on one with a psychologist but it can't hurt to study them.


Hope it helps
Sincerely:SS

 

[(((Satori)))]

The problem is what happens when you get three "teams" who say they are coming? One shows up with four, one shows up with three and Earl stabs someone.

It sounds good in theory but as someone who has herded his share of cats it would be a bloody nightmare in execution. Plus you would lose all the hype of the points throughout the year.

Earl hasnt stabbed anyone yet... afaik!

If someone doesnt show up then they let their team down. I really dont see that being a problem for the teams that have a chance to win this.

And what is lost in hype due to points is more than made up for in hype when different teams start to form and the hype of the anticipation for the final elimination event. If the concern is that higher powers are looking to use the mosconi cup as incentive to create more activity in regional and national tournaments the perhaps there could be a rule that in order to be eligible to play on a team you must have played in at least 5 of any of the specified tournaments throughout the year. The specified tournaments could be made up of all majors and regional tours. In other words if a pro plays in 5 mezz tour stops then he would qualify to put together or be a part of a team. He just needs to find 4 other friends that have qualified and they decide to be a team and enter the mosconi cup team usa event.

This idea gives a lot of pros a chance to form a team and possibly win who would otherwise never have a chance to be on the mosconi cup this year. Guys like Putnam, Moore, Bartram, Saez, Daulton, etc. Lots of five man teams could be formed to compete and the event would produce one team as the winner to go on and represent the US.

 

[Ranmar]

The round robin thing would have to have to the hammer of the Captain picking the whole squad to reduce the amount of BS. Just knowing that even if you miss the top five by one loss you may still have a chance if you do everything else right could mitigate the nonsense. But still tough because players gonna player.

The more I think about it the more I like the idea of two five man teams playing the whole cup format and choosing from there. You are gonna see guys get stuck with partners that shoot up in the air and see how they deal with it. Does a guy focus or just give up? You put the guys in the grease and pick the ones who make the best squad at that time and place.

As far as points I dont think there is an easy solution. Of the cuff it seems you either do a small number of big events or give points to everything over $1000 added so it evens out the chance for people to get to them. One way to mitigate any weirdness in the points availability is to take the top ten for trials.

Interesting point about keeping track of all domestic tournaments with over $1000 added. Is there value in attempting to keep accurate statistics of who played and how they finished in all decent sized (domestic) local and regional tournament play?

It seems that midsize tournament play is one thing pros/players can semi-count on these days.

Calculating a Player Rank seems possible as a function of 1) the results of the calcutta and 2) how that player finishes in the tournament. I think I have a spreadsheet on this somewhere If the tournament director took the extra 15 minutes to enter these two sets of data for every tournament into a central database an interesting Rank would emerge...And it doesn't feel like Fargo Rate is the answer here...not sure that formula excites all that much.

 

[(((Satori)))]

Earl hasnt stabbed anyone yet... afaik!

If someone doesnt show up then they let their team down. I really dont see that being a problem for the teams that have a chance to win this.

And what is lost in hype due to points is more than made up for in hype when different teams start to form and the hype of the anticipation for the final elimination event. If the concern is that higher powers are looking to use the mosconi cup as incentive to create more activity in regional and national tournaments the perhaps there could be a rule that in order to be eligible to play on a team you must have played in at least 5 of any of the specified tournaments throughout the year. The specified tournaments could be made up of all majors and regional tours. In other words if a pro plays in 5 mezz tour stops then he would qualify to put together or be a part of a team. He just needs to find 4 other friends that have qualified and they decide to be a team and enter the mosconi cup team usa event.

This idea gives a lot of pros a chance to form a team and possibly win who would otherwise never have a chance to be on the mosconi cup this year. Guys like Putnam, Moore, Bartram, Saez, Daulton, etc. Lots of five man teams could be formed to compete and the event would produce one team as the winner to go on and represent the US.

Suppose somewhere between 5-10 5man teams were formed. The final determining event could be a best two out of three, race to 5, double elimination tournament to determine the winner. Set one being team against team, set two scotch doubles, set three best player against best player.

 

[BasementDweller]

I love theorizing about pool but we can hardly fill one team of players with world class talent and now you guys want to have a bunch of teams compete for the chance to represent the U.S.?


Let's get real here -- we don't have the players to do this.

 

[JoeyA]

I love theorizing about pool but we can hardly fill one team of players with world class talent and now you guys want to have a bunch of teams compete for the chance to represent the U.S.?


Let's get real here -- we don't have the players to do this.

I agree. Let's work with what we've got.

The gap between U-Ruppp and the USA Mosconi Cup players is CLOSING.

For the USA, a little improved teamwork, some kicking improvements, improved safety play, some new mental tool and techniques and the boys from across the pond will be asking for breaks in between matches to change their shorts.

JoeyA

 

[denzilla171]

Do you think Scotty Bowman was a good hockey coach? He only won 9 Stanley Cups and over 1200 games. Find me a YouTube video of him going over and telling Steve Yzerman, don't worry kid you will score on the next shot.

Here's Scotty, including a quote from Yzerman...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oadl3XPzqVQ&feature=youtu.be

 

[watchez]

Scotty Bowman behind his bench 98.43% of the time