Real Pool Reality Show crowdfunding

[cleary]

Events that take money from most of the players and give it to a few don't seem to work. Because most of the players lose money.

My idea is to get teams from all over the place to play each other and give the players a large cut of the video sales.

They put up their own money for the match. I was hoping to get a lot more by a pre-selling of the videos, but that looks gloomy according to you guys. But even so, after a few video sales, no one will lose money and that may be a turning point.

Hopefully there will then be city teams to maybe get some hometown type support.

This doesn't depend on your help, but it would sure be good if we got some.

Jim

Jim, no offense but it's just a bad idea. Your idea has the best intentions it just doesn't have any legs.

First of all, I'm sorry to say but if a pool player isn't making money, it's for a reason. The simple truth is that just because you're good at something, doesn't mean you should make a living doing it. Sure, some can and do... but there is only so much that can go around. Should I donate my money to a cause that helps some people carry on a dream of making it in a world they cannot? Nothing successful can be created like that.

Secondly, your idea. It seems as if your idea is to create videos that will be for sale on a PPV basis. Or, not live. That will never work. I'm not trying to be a hater, you just need to realize that doesn't work. It won't work for pool... it wouldn't work with the NFL/MLB/NBA/NHL.. it barely works in porn these days. The model just doesn't work. If it's not live, nobody cares. Even when it is live, people need to care about the people involved. Sadly, few people involved in your project could draw any sort of gate. Even live streaming the best, most known players on earth, barely breaks even for everyone involved. For a reason...

Trust me, I really do respect that you try but you need to realize it's just not going to work. Sorry.

 

[Icon of Sin]

This is a forum. Surely you understand that not everyone is going to agree with you on a public forum. I thought Icon's reply was respectful and well thought out. In no way did it appear to be "hateful".

You would do better in your approach in trying to attract people to funding your project if you would stop throwing out the term "hater" and firing away at anyone who is making a point that doesn't agree with yours. Otherwise, why would anyone want to contribute to a project run by someone who flies off the handle at conversation on a public forum?

Thank you.

I have nothing against Jim (with the exception of calling me a hater and my comments stupid of course, but that's the nature of a public forum). He is a great case maker and an asset to the pool community in that fact and a few others.

I just dont see crowdfunding another pool show to be a good idea, especially when the last one, which had corporate funding, did not get renewed.

 

[watchez]

Maybe Jim should look into buying the Bonus Ball arena and making that work.

 

[PETROBOY]

I was wondering when Bonus Ball was going to make an appearance lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[justadub]

Maybe Jim should look into buying the Bonus Ball arena and making that work.

The way its being handled here is certainly comparable.

 

[krupa]

I'd like to hear from some of the people who aren't haters if there are any. Maybe you wonderful guys have intimidated them. Or maybe they just don't exist.


Jim

I'm not a "hater", but this is not a product I want to buy for the following reasons:
I don't know the players.
I don't care who wins.
I don't like "reality show" formats.
I don't watch online streams because of quality and availability. Accu-stats DVDs are higher quality than the streams I've seen and I can watch my DVDs whenever I want.

 

[JCIN]

I think a lot of the push back in this thread could of been avoided by simply saying "I am pre-selling videos of my new project if anyone would like to check it out"

Soon as you say the word "crowdfunding" people lose their shit...and rightly so. Especially here.

As for the idea itself I guess my question is that if an experienced production company with a TV deal and real budget couldnt make it work why would a DIY version of it funded $10 at a time have any chance of success? This isnt hate its really the first thing that popped in my mind.

 

[watchez]

As for the idea itself I guess my question is that if an experienced production company with a TV deal and real budget couldnt make it work why would a DIY version produced and filmed by a case maker with no support by the players involved and it funded $10 at a time have any chance of success? This isnt hate its really the first thing that popped in my mind.

Sorry I had to add to your post

 

[bfdlad]

I think a lot of the push back in this thread could of been avoided by simply saying "I am pre-selling videos of my new project if anyone would like to check it out"

Soon as you say the word "crowdfunding" people lose their shit...and rightly so. Especially here.

As for the idea itself I guess my question is that if an experienced production company with a TV deal and real budget couldnt make it work why would a DIY version of it funded $10 at a time have any chance of success? This isnt hate its really the first thing that popped in my mind.

Justin is probably right as far as the wording with the fund me, crowd funding goes. That may have avoided a lot of the negativity.

I think that Jim is a good guy, he makes great cases and has been involved in all kinds of pool related projects to promote pool and players and from what I can gather at his own expense. Having said that, I am also in the same mindset of people wanting to come to AZB only when they are pushing something. Not Jim, he has been around a while but the players he is raising money for. As one poster said AZB are tight knit and for the most part don't want to just give to players who have no interest in giving back to the community and some that have a negative opinion of the members here. The AZB community are actually a generous bunch and are willing to give and support fellow members for the right cause. I have been a recipient of this in the past and actually that includes JimM. So the fact remains there are a number of issues that are not helping the cause here but I do not want to blame Jim for trying, as I have said he is one to give when needed.

 

[jimM]

I misunderstood

My name is Heath and I live in Baltimore, MD. Some people from here and another Pool forum know me and have met me in person. I will be at the Billiards expo as well. I'm not hiding from anyone nor am I "in the shadows". I'm just a pool player and have no credentials.

What's laughable isnt the fact that she is making that much money, it's the fact that a top pool pro and our most reconignized player has to do commericials for a sporting company which has absolutely nothing to do with pool. That is what is laughable.

The first time I saw one of those commercials, I was thinking, what the hell is Jeanette doing there and on top of that, the only way the general public would have been able to differentiate her from any other random pretty girl is that they had to put a little subtitle under her name labeling her as a Billiards Champion.

That is what is laughable Jim.

I'm not trying to convince you to do nothing. I'm trying to show you that asking an already broke and untrusting community for money is not going to go well especially when a previous attempt at a pool reality show which actually went mainstream did not get renewed for a second season.

Hell, if anything, I would watch your show because I'm a pool player. The other thing I'm trying to say is that the non-pool playing public will not.

Sorry, I misunderstood your point.

Jim

 

[jimM]

answer

Jim, no offense but it's just a bad idea. Your idea has the best intentions it just doesn't have any legs.

First of all, I'm sorry to say but if a pool player isn't making money, it's for a reason. The simple truth is that just because you're good at something, doesn't mean you should make a living doing it. Sure, some can and do... but there is only so much that can go around. Should I donate my money to a cause that helps some people carry on a dream of making it in a world they cannot? Nothing successful can be created like that.

Secondly, your idea. It seems as if your idea is to create videos that will be for sale on a PPV basis. Or, not live. That will never work. I'm not trying to be a hater, you just need to realize that doesn't work. It won't work for pool... it wouldn't work with the NFL/MLB/NBA/NHL.. it barely works in porn these days. The model just doesn't work. If it's not live, nobody cares. Even when it is live, people need to care about the people involved. Sadly, few people involved in your project could draw any sort of gate. Even live streaming the best, most known players on earth, barely breaks even for everyone involved. For a reason...

Trust me, I really do respect that you try but you need to realize it's just not going to work. Sorry.

Ok Cleary, I should quit. I'll listen to you. You aren't a hater, you just say what haters say. If all the haters bought a video, It would probably work better. You can't do a reality show live. You should know that much, I would think.

Jim

 

[watchez]

Jim - what if you made a video and sold it for just $1 and got the Chinese fans to buy it. You could make a billion dollars. Oh wait - that was your last idea before this one that never got off the ground.

 

[jimM]

answer

I'm disrespectful? Oh ok. Funny I thought that of you when you spent all morning calling everyone you thinks your idea stinks a hater or an idiot.

Go back to selling over priced pool cases and stick to what you know. You couldn't promote free bananas to a monkey.

And you want to hear from people that aren't haters? You have collected $75. Doesn't that tell you that people that think your idea is promising don't exist.

Why would you have to tell anyone their idea stinks. No one wants to hear from you. That is what is disrespectful. I didn't say you were an idiot. Maybe you know better than me. And tell me, you're not a hater?

I thought you were rich. You could afford one of my cases. They aren't over priced and just the fact that you say something childish like that shows me that you are more interested in the hate than anything else.

Oh, it's up to $115 now. It's going up, up, up!!! You still have time to buy a video stream.

Jim

 

[cleary]

Ok Cleary, I should quit. I'll listen to you. You aren't a hater, you just say what haters say. If all the haters bought a video, It would probably work better. You can't do a reality show live. You should know that much, I would think.

Jim

lol You just don't learn. Nobody will buy this. Not enough to have any sort of impact on anyone's lives. That's not hate, that's being honest. If you made wings out of iron and tried to jump off a building, I'd tell you it wouldn't work. A hater would watch you fall, a realist tells you not to hurt yourself.

 

[Icon of Sin]

You're going to have more competition. Just heard on a Youtube vid from a recent tourney that Inside Pool is putting out a show also. The World Pool Show.

https://youtu.be/HQpzW8jyWf0?t=2583

Video is linked to the time it is stated.

 

[mia]

Please tell me what you are thinking.

Jim

I'm sure I missed something somewhere because I skipped through most of this thread and even skipped through a lot of the video (something more compelling than Bill Finnegan making sure his watch was shiny was streaming on another screen).

But what I did catch was that there are no fake shots in this and no retakes. That seems to be the selling point here. Real pool. You're just going to have a reality show like The Hustlers about pool players... that has an actual pool match in it?

If that's the case, what will make this more successful than The Hustlers? The Hustlers wasn't a hit or a miss because of the setup shots or the authenticity of the pool. ANY reality show's success is based on the cast of characters within it AND/OR the drama and action from the subject matter. Not the niche audience it targets. People watch reality shows about gold mining or crab fishing or guys making duck calls with little first-hand experience or personal attachment to either. They watch because of the action, the drama, the characters, the laughs, etc..

So if what you're selling is (more or less) The Hustlers but with REAL pool, no one is going to care about this any more than they do about that show. Maybe a handful of pool players yearning to see 'real' pool... but that crowd isn't going to get you funded OR on get you on tv. The pool world is a small world and your primary demographic (actual pool players) are more interested in the being IN a pool hall where the real action / drama is. Not in front of a tv when there are 1,000+ other things on that may be more entertaining a few remote clicks away.

 

[maha]

he is right, most here are haters. so i am starting a crowd funding (begging for free money) site to give the haters money for doing nothing. then if successful you may get a picture in the mail of a hater with a smile.

the one with the most hate posts just so happened to be the op, so lets all give him money so he will no longer think bad about this hateful pool site.

 

[cleary]

Just a friendly business tip: If your target market thinks the idea stinks, the idea stinks.

Then again, maybe you think AZBilliards and the people of this forum aren't your target market. In that case, you're going to be even more disappointed.

 

[tableskills]

The Action Report (TAR) was a great example of almost everything done right but they were still not able to make the business model work over time. But I don't think that means you can't be successful.

We now have 30+ great matches on dvd or streaming to watch. So even though in the long run it didn't work, I'm glad I supported it because future players can learn a lot by watching those matches. So TAR was successful when you realize the great content we have available to us.

To think that only 1,000 people would pay for a TAR match means that even Shane couldn't get pool players to contribute to making great videos.

Jim, if you really want to make this work you need to show more than just pool and appeal to more then just the people at AZ. Do something super creative and new. Why not film the match with a 3D camera or have the first pool show available for the Oculus Rift VR. Now you are opening up your market to other audiences.

Just use the forums here for reality checks, but by no means make any life decisions from anything anyone on here writes.

 

[mia]

Just a friendly business tip: If your target market thinks the idea stinks, the idea stinks.

Then again, maybe you think AZBilliards and the people of this forum aren't your target market. In that case, you're going to be even more disappointed.

Hater!