Dirty Pool

TATE

TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Silver Member
Seems everybody wants to clean up the game.

Maybe it's just me, but I've always been attracted to the "dark side" of pool. Who hasn't watched all-night gambling matches, met all kinds of characters, and walked on the dark side? When those pool room doors close behind you, all you have is your cue, your wallet, and your brain.

While I consider myself a good guy, I find the dark side kind of entertaining. Face it, today's kids are playing "Call of Duty" and splattering people.

Pool's not so bad.
 
My Late Brother and I always seemed to the same thing at times.

We just had a fascination or would gravitate to the seamier parts of a town or city when we went on holidays.

That usually meant Pool halls, peeler bars and such. I mean, we also visited Museums and Historic sites also.

When we had many Pool Halls, in the downtown core, lets just say that they weren't exactly Family Rec Centers.

When our last Hall finally closed, it had just the right amount of old pool hall, coupled with just a tad of modern.

Now, the only Hall left, and the reason I didn't include it as the last one, is because it is nothing but a noisy student bar with wrecked up Connelys and poor lighting.

When you walk in, the last thing that you think of is, Pool Hall, even tho there are at least 20 tables inside. If I want to play on a wrecked up 8 foot table, I know of a lot of bars that I can go to, and at least get a few better games in. And for much cheaper.
 
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Couldn't agree more. When i first started there was a place in Tulsa, BoulderBilliards. Place dated from the 30's and was a walk-down spot. Old Brunswicks, bead counters, oak sweater's chairs. You name it ,they had it. A local legend, Randy(FatRandy) Wallace was running it at the time and it was pool Nirvana. Because it was downtown the cast of characters was truly a rogue's gallery. Action(of ANY kind) could be had. Pool, "recreational shrubbery", short-term female companionship, ponies, sports, everything was on the menu. Saw my first really good players, Buddy and Matlock, in this spot. Man I still miss this place.
 
People need to responsible as Adults. Careers, Companions and children all come with that. Despite that, it is my belief that 4 things have withstood the test of time. They are Sex, Violence, Drugs and Gambling. People are drawn to it. Pool is heavy into the drugs and Gambling. I feel that I'm a responsible adult with a career that supports my family. Despite that, I will always be drawn to watching the Dark side of the Game.It is very entertaining. This year's Derby City Classic did not deviate from that.
 
TATE said:
Seems everybody wants to clean up the game.

Maybe it's just me, but I've always been attracted to the "dark side" of pool. Who hasn't watched all-night gambling matches, met all kinds of characters, and walked on the dark side? When those pool room doors close behind you, all you have is your cue, your wallet, and your brain.

While I consider myself a good guy, I find the dark side kind of entertaining. Face it, today's kids are playing "Call of Duty" and splattering people.

Pool's not so bad.
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I agree 100%.

But then....this is me...


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:thumbup:

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TATE said:
Seems everybody wants to clean up the game.

Maybe it's just me, but I've always been attracted to the "dark side" of pool. Who hasn't watched all-night gambling matches, met all kinds of characters, and walked on the dark side? When those pool room doors close behind you, all you have is your cue, your wallet, and your brain.

While I consider myself a good guy, I find the dark side kind of entertaining. Face it, today's kids are playing "Call of Duty" and splattering people.

Pool's not so bad.
Click to expand...

It's entertaining at a distance, like listening to French's interview or hearing stories about hustlers taking a sucker's money. I just want it to be no part of my life.
 
TATE said:
Seems everybody wants to clean up the game.

Maybe it's just me, but I've always been attracted to the "dark side" of pool. Who hasn't watched all-night gambling matches, met all kinds of characters, and walked on the dark side? When those pool room doors close behind you, all you have is your cue, your wallet, and your brain.

While I consider myself a good guy, I find the dark side kind of entertaining. Face it, today's kids are playing "Call of Duty" and splattering people.

Pool's not so bad.
Click to expand...

You read my mind lol.without even had seen this thread, I just spent a couple hours going back and forth writing a long post about this in another thread. Must be the Super Bowl!!!
 
Yup, I agree too. Pool Halls have traditionally attracted so many diverse "characters" they just end up being fascinating and fun.

I could write a pretty entertaining book about the people I've met and the things I've seen in Pool Halls.

Even now that I'm an older family man and a professional in my career, I still always feel most at home in a seedy, run-down Pool Hall. There's just no other place quite like it.
 
I don't get this "clean up" thing. I play in Lansing, MI and know a great deal of the pool players through leagues and tourneys. The vast majority of the people are good people, in fact can't really think of any "bad apples".

The reputation to the lay person will always be what it is unless pool gets catapulted into the public lime light in a very positive way. Like golf w tiger woods. Its not gonna happen.

More than that though, who cares? Really, what does it matter what the people who don't enjoy the game think?
 
TATE said:
Seems everybody wants to clean up the game.

Maybe it's just me, but I've always been attracted to the "dark side" of pool. Who hasn't watched all-night gambling matches, met all kinds of characters, and walked on the dark side? When those pool room doors close behind you, all you have is your cue, your wallet, and your brain.

While I consider myself a good guy, I find the dark side kind of entertaining. Face it, today's kids are playing "Call of Duty" and splattering people.

Pool's not so bad.
Click to expand...

Define 'everybody'.
I, for one think pool is fine. This fantasy that pool will become a respectable sport, in my opinion, will only manifest in shorts spurts. When that happens, it should be celebrated and those involved should be rewarded. Anytime pool becomes 'G' rated, it's a good thing for the economy of the sport. But in its entirety, pool will always have it's backroom action.

I love it all because cuesports pushes us beyond human boundaries. No matter what the competition, it's a game of Gods!
 
Daniel:

Are you streaming from Hard Times today?

Ditched cable a year ago, so I won't be watching the super bowl.
 
Pool hasn't really ever tried to clean up it's image, and look where it's at right now. It needs to be done if you ever want it to have a chance to be on a major network.

Let's compare it to Golf. Plenty of players, both amateur and professional, place wagers while on the course. Heck, there are even some players (not necessarily pros) that will hustle their opponents. The biggest difference is that it's not a major caveat of the sport.

Most parents will gladly send their 12 year old child to play golf. Most parents aren't going to drop off their 12 year old child at a pool hall to practice.
 
The goal is to be on a "major network"? As in TV?


Wow.


That's the goal of pool?


Golf?

I remember when we were looking for the house we have. I am busy so the wife shopped for it. The agent kept sending us links to houses in golf communities with jacked up prices. I asked why. She said "Well, you are a doctor."

The house we got is A LOT closer to the biker bar with a pool table. It's a big house. Lots of room. That's what we wanted. The agent asked "Do you really want to live there? Do you know what people live there?" Yes. I also informed her she was breaking federal housing laws.

One of my co-workers said "You know that neighborhood isn't all white. There are blacks and Hispanics. Be careful with your daughter." I am Hispanic! Nobody ever said anything like that about the golf communities.



I am not so sure I would want pool to become what golf is in any way.



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Chopdoc said:
I am not so sure I would want pool to become what golf is in any way.



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Not sure what you mean, but I read this as, you don't want pool to be successful.

Is that right? Are you satisfied with the current state of pool?
 
BeiberLvr said:
Not sure what you mean, but I read this as, you don't want pool to be successful.

Is that right? Are you satisfied with the current state of pool?
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I like to play pool. I dig cues.

Success is defined in many ways. Perhaps we just don't see it the same.

Most people people think football is successful. But I would never encourage somebody to do it. I don't think our schools should have it or support it at all. There should be no scholarships for it. It is one of the worst aspects of the educational system in the US. I laugh when people try to point out how it benefits the schools.

But most people feel football is very successful.

Many of the old rooms have closed. I think that is sad. But they were old, often not so pretty places, places not for family recreation. Do I want to see them replaced with another kind of pool room? No, I simply wish they had not gone away.

Saunier Wilhelm closed. I loved that place, and there was a lot of pool history there. Am I satisfied to see it replaced with online retailers? No.

So, am I satisfied with the state of pool? I am not entirely certain but I would say no.

But at the same time I am not so sure I like what some others envision either. I am not sure I define the success of pool the same way.


My daughter went to the pool hall with me last night. She wants to play some. She wants a cue. I find that very satisfying. I gave her future husband a JOSS recently. I am very satisfied to see him play and enjoy it.

Sometimes I think people lose sight of what they perhaps could be enjoying in favor of concentrating on their frustration with other aspects of the game or industry.

If pool gets "bigger" and more "commercialized" than it already is it might lose some of what I already am satisfied with and enjoy.

Personally, I think the best thing that any of us can do for the game is to just go play, and teach somebody to play. Just enjoy it.

I don't work in the industry, so I am not so worried about that aspect of it nor do I seek my satisfaction with matters that concern it.

But, that's just me.


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TATE said:
Seems everybody wants to clean up the game.

Maybe it's just me, but I've always been attracted to the "dark side" of pool. Who hasn't watched all-night gambling matches, met all kinds of characters, and walked on the dark side? When those pool room doors close behind you, all you have is your cue, your wallet, and your brain.

While I consider myself a good guy, I find the dark side kind of entertaining. Face it, today's kids are playing "Call of Duty" and splattering people.

Pool's not so bad.
Click to expand...
To me, the dark side of pool used to be fun. Playing in bars for money, until of course a group of guys decided to not let me take the money or leave until I gave them their money back. That was not so fun. But playing drunks in bars could be very entertaining, especially considering that I drank too.
 
BeiberLvr said:
Pool hasn't really ever tried to clean up it's image, and look where it's at right now. It needs to be done if you ever want it to have a chance to be on a major network.

Let's compare it to Golf. Plenty of players, both amateur and professional, place wagers while on the course. Heck, there are even some players (not necessarily pros) that will hustle their opponents. The biggest difference is that it's not a major caveat of the sport.

Most parents will gladly send their 12 year old child to play golf. Most parents aren't going to drop off their 12 year old child at a pool hall to practice.
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Huh? There's like a thousand times more action at the golf course than the pool room - literally!
 
Chopdoc said:
The goal is to be on a "major network"? As in TV?


Wow.


That's the goal of pool?


Golf?

I remember when we were looking for the house we have. I am busy so the wife shopped for it. The agent kept sending us links to houses in golf communities with jacked up prices. I asked why. She said "Well, you are a doctor."

The house we got is A LOT closer to the biker bar with a pool table. It's a big house. Lots of room. That's what we wanted. The agent asked "Do you really want to live there? Do you know what people live there?" Yes. I also informed her she was breaking federal housing laws.

One of my co-workers said "You know that neighborhood isn't all white. There are blacks and Hispanics. Be careful with your daughter." I am Hispanic! Nobody ever said anything like that about the golf communities.



I am not so sure I would want pool to become what golf is in any way.



.
Click to expand...

I work stressful long hours on rotating shifts. I can make it to the poolhall two weekends a month at best. When I go, I will be having a few (if my wife can chauffeur me). Pool players look down on this behavior. Talk about surreal behavior, poolplayers hanging out in bars, gambling and judging others because they drink. People that barely make enough to feed their own selves much less a family are looking down their noses at people who make a decent living and are actually spending money in a bar supporting the game that they love while they hold their free refill cup of Coke in their hands lamenting the downfall of the "real" pool hall.

All types of people judge other types. I do too.

I grew up in a middle to lower middle income family on or around military bases. I do like the poolhall and bar atmosphere and frankly, I prefer this class of people over the upper crust. Making a decent living might not change you but it will definitely change the way people look at you. The people struggling to make a living will judge you too and it most likely won't be good.

I, like Chopdoc, chose to live in a neighborhood that was below my income level when I had lived in Michigan. It was a white hood and I'm not. I found the house and had to make the real estate agent show me the place. In eight years of living there, the most negative thing that I heard was that I needed to move into a hood of my income level because I didn't belong in theirs. (I still have good friends that I keep in contact with 15 years later.)

Prejudice crosses all boundaries be it race, color, creed, religion or income level. This includes the upper crust. Sometimes mixing people from different income levels can be more volatile than mixing races.

I believe pool will continue to struggle in bars until middle to upper middle income class people enter the fray and embrace the game. They will bring the money. If that happens, the gambler/hustler will be looked down on to a higher degree than the guy that has a good time drinking and playing pool. The pool atmosphere will change and most of the people that support pool now will not be welcome just like Chopdoc was pointing out in the response above. Gambling on pool won't go away, the way it's currently done will. I gave up my membership to the golf country club long ago. Golfers gamble too but without all the drama. I would never expect to see an incident like the Orcullo/French incident at the club house.

I would love to see a pro tour AND keep the pool scene as-is. But sadly, I don't think that will ever work. Oil and water don't mix. The future will be glitter and money or cashless seediness.
 
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