my two headed monster,.,.,.,.

Originally Posted by 9BallKing View Post
What I don't get is Leon asked Tony if he could do his own version many years ago while I was at the BB shop, He called me and asked me to ask Tony! Tony said I would be tickled to death if he can do it do it I don't give a shit I'd like to see it when it's done.

Also Manzino has done that butt cap in his own way

JMW has his own way and done it see it here
http://www.pro9.co.uk/html/print.php?sid=489

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showth...ht=James+white
Crown cues has done it in their style

That's to name a few

As far as the design, I've talked to many people who buy cues like this. They ask Leon for the design. They do so because it takes them into a cue that would be 5x Leon's price from another maker and it's affordable to them, they know the cue will play well, and it's Leon's style it's slightly different he doesn't do it exactly the same.

We could sit here and say no one should use a notched diamond , a dot, or barbell because Gus did first. But that would be foolish. Since the cue is different Leon still has to spend some time on the design on the CNC because he did not get the exact specs from BB or Vollmer or anyone else


I just didn't see any people bashing James Whites crown butt cap and I realize you guys are talking the design in general but only the Windows the same lol everyone uses Windows

I don't have a dog in this fight but if you own a black boar or Vollmer it doesn't effect your cues value or the fact you own one. So who cares at the end of the day. You do your high end cues and Leon will make his to the customers who obviously like them and ask for them. He must have a market cause he sells every cue he makes

Great points 9ballking,

However, I have seen Notched Diamonds on a ukulele built in the 1800s.

If you examine artisan work and designs from eastern, western and native cultures, I would bet you could not find any elements on cues that were not hundreds or thousands of years old.

"The game is the same, the players are new".

That dude Jimbo and his CDT (Cue Design Theft Rants) is so ignorant and egotistical in the premise of his flawed Philosophy that I find myself being embarrassed for him when I read his mouth crap. A sad case indeed looking for attention like all the Cuezilla Morons and the Cue Poet, LOL. Get a life!

Jimbo is an elitist that thinks he is qualified to be a critic when in reality he could not muster the energy of sticktoitofness to build a mere Plain Jane cue let alone have the skill sets or talent to make the simplest of inlay or design grouping geometries himself. He has no idea!

Leon is a great example of a very talented CM who owes no one anything and just makes his customers happy.

Let's not forget how important it is for the maker to produce a cue that plays great before he gets all artsey fartsey. Leon has that in spades.

JMO

Rick

Thanks Steve & Rick
that's how i Roll.

couple more in the works all ebony with wrapless burl handles.
can't wait to post these up for sale when completed price range from 3 - 4k

Don't mess with the farm truck you"ll get your ego hurt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58y-IU5Yel4
Edit/Delete Message
 
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scdiveteam said:
Great points 9ballking,

However, I have seen Notched Diamonds on a ukulele built in the 1800s.

If you examine artisan work and designs from eastern, western and native cultures, I would bet you could not find any elements on cues that were not hundreds or thousands of years old.

"The game is the same, the players are new".

That dude Jimbo and his CDT (Cue Design Theft Rants) is so ignorant and egotistical in the premise of his flawed Philosophy that I find myself being embarrassed for him when I read his mouth crap. A sad case indeed looking for attention like all the Cuezilla Morons and the Cue Poet, LOL. Get a life!

Jimbo is an elitist that thinks he is qualified to be a critic when in reality he could not muster the energy of sticktoitofness to build a mere Plain Jane cue let alone have the skill sets or talent to make the simplest of inlay or design grouping geometries himself. He has no idea!

Leon is a great example of a very talented CM who owes no one anything and just makes his customers happy.

Let's not forget how important it is for the maker to produce a cue that plays great before he gets all artsey fartsey. Leon has that in spades.

JMO

Rick
Click to expand...
I Like this post!!!!!!! IMO Your comments and insight about Leon are Spot On.
 
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copy cat

What he said. Anyone with a pair of eyes and see that this cue is a copy and has no original design elements. Which is more than half the work for cue makers who want to be known for their own style.

Tribute..replica..imitation...it's all the same.

When you get a replica rolex (michael kors watch/ invicta) and all they do is change a few design pieces. It's still an imitation of the original. It's made of different techniques and process.

Congrats to leon for teaching himself how to copy a high end cue maker. But that goes as far as it can because most educated cue guys know the difference between a copy and an original.

it's made for a different consumer with different quality in mind as it's not as detailed or precise in design or execution.

Leon has hit a certain ability in his cue making skills...but as far as being up there with the rest of legends like Manzino or Tony..he's got a lifetime of learning ahead of him.

People should have nothing to worry about the value's of their originals being affected.

shadowmoss said:
As a copy I like the way you act clueless. As for calling you I have no need to (Sorry but I would never buy one of your cues) and for a lot of people they would rather buy the original than a copy that won't hold any value.
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classiccues said:
I hate when people try and rewrite history. Crown 2003, Paul Rubino late mid to late 90's...The picture is called 7 years ago from when it was originally posted in 2006.

I don't know when Tony did his first cap, but lets say he did copy it. I don't think he did, but lets say he did for the sake of discussion. He has done enough of his own designs, IMHO he can justify grabbing a butt cap.

JV
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And before this, the idea was more than likely taken from Bill Stroud's use of that style crown in the butt sleeve of some of his cues.
 
leon sly said:
i can build anything i'm always open for a challenge:cool::thumbup:
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EDIT: I responded BEFORE I read all the other posts regarding the similarity between this cue and the one it copies.

No offense Leon, but I think the challenge would be to come up with your own unique design. Honestly, I think you should be ashamed of yourself. You have proven you have the ability to produce very nice cues but this is completely unacceptable. In the real world, this is a crime. And while I'm not a BB fan because I think Tony completely rips people off with the money he charges for his cues, I still think he is entitled to some protection from infringement.
 
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certain ability, to me cue making is pretty easy ..........

Leon has hit a certain ability in his cue making skills...but as far as being up there with the rest of legends like Manzino or Tony..he's got a lifetime of learning ahead of him.


there's no life time of learning needed. ??? for what creating designs or designs
that already exist the elements of a floret with a oval......all of these elements are free and just about ready for anyone to use with a little knowledge, no life time learning needed it simple.
if you want me to post sites & pics of these free designs just let me know.
end of story.
 
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leon sly said:
certain ability, to me cue making is pretty easy....there's no life time of learning needed. ??? for what creating designs or designs that already exist.....
Click to expand...

I'm sure if you ever attempt to do some of the work like Bob, Ernie, Dennis, Jerry (McWorter), Randy, Jake, Thomas, Paul, Richard (Black or Chudy),..etc have done, you'll find out quick there's a LOT to learn.... Have at it.
 
skins said:
I'm sure if you ever attempt to do some of the work like Bob, Ernie, Dennis, Jerry (McWorter), Randy, Jake, Thomas, Paul, Richard (Black or Chudy),..etc have done, you'll find out quick there's a LOT to learn.... Have at it.
Click to expand...
Tim, i appreciate your phone call last month and our conversation...i told you i build what i want how i want regardless the out come....please keep this thread going i'll post all my future builds here
can't wait to show Jim Harrison, next cue.
creative, imagination, really for designs that are free and already exist.
you can trace these images scale to size and re radius...or no radius and knife the pockets and fill with adding matching color pigment to your slow drying glue.....but remember my fellow cue makers it takes a life time of learning to figure this out Lol.
 
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Please Leon, show us the website from which Manzino traced the images for his Evolution cue. It had to be very simple to do....
 
leon sly said:
certain ability, to me cue making is pretty easy ..........

Leon has hit a certain ability in his cue making skills...but as far as being up there with the rest of legends like Manzino or Tony..he's got a lifetime of learning ahead of him.


there's no life time of learning needed. ??? for what creating designs or designs
that already exist the elements of a floret with a oval......all of these elements are free and just about ready for anyone to use with a little knowledge, no life time learning needed it simple.
if you want me to post sites & pics of these free designs just let me know.
end of story.
Click to expand...

Leon,

There is a significant difference between using inlays, points, etc that have been used before and completely copying another makers distinct design in which he is known for. With this cue, it is a complete ripoff of a Black Boar. Everyone knows I'm not a fan of BB cues or the fact that I think anyone one that buys ones for the money Tony charges is a complete idiot so my response here is not just ball washing BB/Tony. Add in the fact that I actually like you and I think you're a very good cue maker and I hope you see that I am not just bashing you.

That being said, I lost a lot of respect for you with this cue. You are well capable of building cues that are well thought out and executed without having to completely rip off another maker's unique design. If the payday is really that important to you then maybe you should consider a new line of work. Either that or just keep doing what you're doing.... If you have no conscience.
 
Monstermash said:
Leon,

There is a significant difference between using inlays, points, etc that have been used before and completely copying another makers distinct design in which he is known for. With this cue, it is a complete ripoff of a Black Boar. Everyone knows I'm not a fan of BB cues or the fact that I think anyone one that buys ones for the money Tony charges is a complete idiot so my response here is not just ball washing BB/Tony. Add in the fact that I actually like you and I think you're a very good cue maker and I hope you see that I am not just bashing you.

That being said, I lost a lot of respect for you with this cue. You are well capable of building cues that are well thought out and executed without having to completely rip off another maker's unique design. If the payday is really that important to you then maybe you should consider a new line of work. Either that or just keep doing what you're doing.... If you have no conscience.
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no problem tom,......but then again i have no conscience because i play with wood all day;)
 
Two headed monster

Please read this

I am the person who purchased the cue in this thread.

I am not sure of the purpose of all of the negative statements on this thread.

I saw the cue liked it called Leon and chatted with him about it and then purchased it.

The cue is really beautiful, I have over 50 cues and his is in the middle of the pack in the price of them. I do know what a nice cue is and this one plays as good as it looks.

I see no reason for this thread to go on. I bought the cue and am glad I did. You should all be happy for me as I got a really good playing cue that also looks awesome.

I am so happy with this cue I am having Leon build another one for me based on what I would like to see in a cue.

I think that if you have nothing nice to say then don't say anything.

Have a great day all.....I know I will
 
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