New Joss Cue & Conversation
- Thread starter DrCue'sProtege
- Start date
One thing that turned me off was the "custom" cue that DAN built that was terrible.
You are probably right, Dan's bank account could be larger, I dont know. It seems a lot like the DP cue path in a lot of ways.
My point has been and continues to be the best deals are the used customs right now.
But if someone buys a new production cue and is happy, all is good. Just don't tell me that new Joss cues are in the same league as Tim or Bill's work.
Your mileage may vary.
Ken
I recently purchased a Joss and talked to Dan. What he told me was a little different than what has been said previously. They have their standard cues, which are largely done by hand but are more of a production cue in they way they are built and assembled. What Dan told me is that the customs that are listed on the site are mostly built by him personally just like he did early in his career with some upgraded techniques but it allows him to just build whatever he wants. The truly custom one of a kind Joss cues are made mostly by his son. So three levels of cue. I know that mine is a very solid cue that plays remarkably similar to the custom he made in the early 80s for me.
Indeed.
Joss Handmade are made by both Dan and Stephen, and generally signed I believe, so you know who made it.
I was speaking of their general catalog of Joss cues. I believe they both work on them.
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I believe that's basically what has been said actually.
His son does build a lot of the customs. But you can still get one made by Dan and signed by Dan.
I was assure by Dan personally that nobody else would touch the cue he would build for me. I have no reason not to believe him.
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I agree, the best deals are in used customs right now. The market is depressed. That can change. Used production cues are the second best value. That could change as well.
But if you want a new custom ordered cue made for you by Bill or Tim you obviously can't get one. So that point would be moot.
So I am having a conversion done of a 1930's cue. Do you really believe that Dan Janes cannot convert that cue done to the level of fit and finish of an equivalent cue that Tim or Bill might have done? I am asking, not trying to tell you anything at all.
I don't know that any of this has to do with Dan's bank account. And I honestly don't think he got rich doing what he is doing anyway. But I do believe he is a successful business owner.
As far as comparing Dan Janes to Dale Perry, I think that is WAY off base and out of line. Dan Janes is a HOF maker that has sponsored many events and is a leading cue maker. He isn't a factory owner. He is a cue maker. He works at a lathe, not a desk. And he has certainly not gone the way of Dale Perry who circumnavigated the dealer and distribution network in favor of Ebay while backing off on production quality.
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I think we agree on most everything.
I think ANY cuemaker can do the conversion for you, including Joss.
Ken
This is the cue I want converted by Dan Janes. This is a copy of my post from 3 years ago. I want it made with the modern Joss core.
The core on the Joss web site:
Dan Janes would build the cue with his modern dimensions, the modern Joss core, Ivory piloted joint, traditional Joss dashed rings but ivory set in brown phenolic instead of maple in black phenolic, ivory butt cap, and ivory ferrules. Brown lizard skin wrap. A lot of that design (most of it) came with Dan's design advice after he saw the pictures. If that design does not rock with these butterflies and wood, then I don't know what does. I do admit Dan advised me to go with a Titlist for inherent value, but I want an old butterfly conversion. This is one of the best I have found next to something like a 360. And IMHO the zebrawood in this one really is spectacular with these perfect butterflies. I looked long and hard for this blank.
My old post:
This is the one I found. It is already cut. Looks like zebrawood into maple. Three very nice veneers. Butterflies are dead even, two long and two short. It's a bit darkened with age and the old school varnish on it yellowed.
Since it is already cut I was thinking to have the splices moved forward and a handle put in. I would have the nice sharp bottom points showing above the wrap if I had the splices moved forward. There is more than enough of the zebrawood for a butt sleeve. I have an additional piece of it about five inches long as well.
I haven't measured it yet. I still have to unpack my tools since we moved. But it is very obviously fat enough to do whatever I want with it.
I really don't know what it is...but it looks very old and very good quality.
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The core on the Joss web site:
Dan Janes would build the cue with his modern dimensions, the modern Joss core, Ivory piloted joint, traditional Joss dashed rings but ivory set in brown phenolic instead of maple in black phenolic, ivory butt cap, and ivory ferrules. Brown lizard skin wrap. A lot of that design (most of it) came with Dan's design advice after he saw the pictures. If that design does not rock with these butterflies and wood, then I don't know what does. I do admit Dan advised me to go with a Titlist for inherent value, but I want an old butterfly conversion. This is one of the best I have found next to something like a 360. And IMHO the zebrawood in this one really is spectacular with these perfect butterflies. I looked long and hard for this blank.
My old post:
This is the one I found. It is already cut. Looks like zebrawood into maple. Three very nice veneers. Butterflies are dead even, two long and two short. It's a bit darkened with age and the old school varnish on it yellowed.
Since it is already cut I was thinking to have the splices moved forward and a handle put in. I would have the nice sharp bottom points showing above the wrap if I had the splices moved forward. There is more than enough of the zebrawood for a butt sleeve. I have an additional piece of it about five inches long as well.
I haven't measured it yet. I still have to unpack my tools since we moved. But it is very obviously fat enough to do whatever I want with it.
I really don't know what it is...but it looks very old and very good quality.
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Indeed.
But only Joss (Dan Janes) uses that core. If I have it cored by almost any other it will be a straight dowel just glued in.
There are others that use a stepped core. I do admit that. But they are not showing their construction for me to see that I can find. And how many HOF cue makers will build what I want, in six months, with a stepped core, threaded into the cue?
Answer....probably only Dan Janes.
Some might say: "over-built", nothing wrong with just gluing in the core. My gut tells me this is better. Call me emotional.
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Just received word from Dan that my new Joss Cue was shipped yesterday, 1 July. Arrival date is next Wednesday, 6 July.
Now as long as I am not in the hospital due to all the pain I am having in my lower back, lower right abdominal area, and down near the groin I should be able to play with it on Wednesday.
r/Mike
Now as long as I am not in the hospital due to all the pain I am having in my lower back, lower right abdominal area, and down near the groin I should be able to play with it on Wednesday.
r/Mike
Nice. Always exciting to get a new cue.
Now that is great service for a non production,custom cue.
I may be mistaken but didn't you just order the cue to your specs less than a week ago?
I doubt any other cue maker on the planet can match this,I'm gonna consider ordering one!
He has a bunch of custom cues listed on his website.
https://josscues.com/cues/custom/
He does not update it often as the custom I bought is still listed but it is gone. Had a friend try to buy it to double check.
He put a red/black linen on mine and adjusted the weight and put a Champion on the shaft. Took like three days.
And according to Dan, these are all made by him, they are not production type cues.
r/DCP
Yes, which is why I snap bought one. I am quite happy with it. It plays extremely well. Firm, bordering on staff but super solid and nice feedback. Not sure of my tip choice. It is cool having a NOS real Champion on it, and he says they have been temperature and humidity controlled for 30 years but it is HARD. a Kamui Clear medium might be a better fit for the cue, but it is an excellent cue.
What he said to me is at his age he still likes to make "custom" cues, but does not want to make someone else's design, so he just makes his own cues the way he wants. I suspect he just likes completing cues, and trying new things so the Dan Janes hand made customs are actually pretty simple but you can see he is experimenting with things, like the CNC inlays on my cue. And I 100% believe him that they are truly handmade as the points are sharp, etc... And it feels handmade, (i know that is not scientific)
That said, to some it will probably not be 100% hand made because I am certain he uses the graduated threaded core he mass produces for his cues. Other than that though it is I think one of the better bargains in the cue world, though he does not differentiate that it is a custom so they are not an investment, just almost like a little secret that only you know.
Actually, if you look on that page posted above in this thread, not all have sharp points.
Sharp points really have nothing to do with"handmade" anyway. Sharp points can be cut with CNC and commonly are. It's just done a little differently than cutting an inlay pocket for inlaid points. The CNC can be used to cut the V groove for a traditional short splice forearm.
But I don't mean to rain on your parade at all, I am very glad you are happy with your cue and I think these cues are excellent bargains. I do see Dan Janes as a custom cue maker, and I would like him to do my conversion. And I want him to use the Joss core.
The Joss production cues are an excellent value as well IMHO. But it's hard to argue with the prices on used customs these days. There are some real bargains. Sometimes a brand new cue is just what we want though. To each his own.
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UHHHH......WHATTTTTTTT???????
What Joss production cues???
Dan has already said him and Steve make EACH AND EVERY CUE.
I don't believe that the terminology of all Cue Makers is created equal. Every cue is "produced" in one way or another, hence inside even a custom cue shop there is "production".
My take from this is that many people feel a "Production Cue" is massed produced with little special care, like a Twinkie or something. This is true with something like a Lucasi, McDermott or a Players cue.
In the shop of a Custom Cue maker, a "Production Cue" is one or several cues that the Custom Cue Maker is featuring in their line for which they have made more than a few so they have an existing stock for quick delivery. It is made with no less care than their "Custom Cue" which is made specifically to the specs of an individual. In the shop of a custom cue maker all the cues are made more or less with the same special care, it's just that some have an existing stock and others are made to order. With a maker like Dan, I can't imagine there's a difference other than time & materials.
The cue I ordered from Dan is from his 2003 line. The line & model I asked him to make is retired. Nonetheless he is making one for me. In 2003 he had many on hand. Today he has none. In 2003 it was a Production Cue, today it's a Custom Cue. I am absolutely certain there are absolutely no significant differences between the cues readily available in 2003 and the one I'll receive from him in 90 or so day, except the 90 day wait.
I hope this clarifies things. Best, -Z-
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The fact that they make each and every cue does not contradict the term production in any way.
In fact, if it were only one man doing it he could engage in production.
They simply do indeed produce lines of cues for distributors that carry those cues "on the shelf".
There is nothing wrong with it and it does not degrade Joss or Dan Janes in any way. I do not believe that they have compromised quality in any way in order to produce more cues. Their production numbers certainly aren't terribly high even for their most common cues. Why? Because there are only two cue makers in the shop.
The use of the term is not incorrect.
I never said the cues were not made by Dan and his son. They do indeed make production cues. They also make Limited cues. What do you think limited means? It means limited production.
They also make one of a kind Handmade cues.
Maybe a picture from the Joss shop will help you understand:
I am looking for another pic on my hard drive for you as well. It is a shaft cutting machine that Dan had for sale a few years ago. It was huge. If I remember correctly it turned something like 50 shafts at a time. Basically just a bunch of shaft lathes with routers laid out in parallel in one big machine. Obviously shafts were not finished on that machine.
Additionally, you can go to a cue seller like J&J. http://www.jjcue.com/josscues.htm
They actually stock Joss cues like this: http://www.jjcue.com/josspage1.htm
You can see Joss cues are not listed under Custom cues in the menu on the left. But they do have a special page for the one of a kind cues Dan and Stephen make. http://www.jjcue.com/josscues-handmade.htm
Lastly, you might want to remember I am on your side in the matter of Dan Janes being a custom cue maker. Far too many don't consider him that. They act like he's a factory owner.
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DCP, I'm on your side as well.
I s/w Dan on Friday. He shared with me that unlike the cue makers before him, he openly shares with other cue makers about what he has learned and technology he utilizes. He believes that for the craft to move forward, all cue makers should communicate openly with one another and he has held testament to the same by example. He has hosted many well known cue makers in his shop, some of which he knew were the source of nasty rumors about him. He suspected that these rumors were what these cue makers honestly believed was the truth (as opposed to malicious lies) In several cases he held no grudge as once the cue makers saw how Dan can do what he does, they no longer were of the belief that he was a factory, or that he imported cues from China, whatever. In several cases Dan helped his competitors make their operations more advanced, efficient and increased their sales by doing so. Dan doesn't see these people as competitors, he see's them as colleagues.
I'm not a psychic, but I am a psychotherapist and have been for over 20 years. Dealing with those suffering from addiction for as long as I have I've gotten to know the scent of BS when I smell it. My take is Dan is very decent, giving, honest man. I think I'd enjoy talking to him whether we were talking cues or about something else.
Dan also shared with me that Joss has just moved to a smaller location. Hardly the behavior of a purveyor of mass produced cues.
Rest easy my friend, you're getting a Custom Cue, made by the hands of one of the industry's biggest icons. Cherish it. Best, -Z-