getting started with 105/ 207 finish and have a couple of questions

mortuarymike-nv

mortuarymike-nv

mortuarymike-nv
Silver Member
First question
It might be a tiny air bubble but it looks like micro bumps in the epoxy even when its in its measuring mixing cup before being mixed..

The way I measure my epoxy I get very very few bubbles , and when I do I use a tooth pick and squish it against the side of the mixing cup .
But I notice these little bumps on the surface, not allot of bumps like 10 or 15?
These micro bumps , not that many show up on the finish of the cue as the cue is turning on the lathe wet.
I have been using a propane torch to bust bubbles .
But I make sure there isn't bubbles in the epoxy before applying the epoxy on the cue.
I guess I am missing something or doing something wrong ?






Second question is between coats I sand the surface level.
Do I need to polish the surface before applying another coat of resin ?
Or can I sand to 400 and apply another layer of epoxy ?
Been completely polishing the cue out before applying next coat .
 
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Epoxy finish

mortuarymike-nv said:
First question
It might be a tiny air bubble but it looks like micro bumps in the epoxy even when its in its measuring mixing cup before being mixed..

The way I measure my epoxy I get very very few bubbles , and when I do I use a tooth pick and squish it against the side of the mixing cup .
But I notice these little bumps on the surface, not allot of bumps like 10 or 15?
These micro bumps , not that many show up on the finish of the cue as the cue is turning on the lathe wet.
I have been using a propane torch to bust bubbles .
But I make sure there isn't bubbles in the epoxy before applying the epoxy on the cue.
I guess I am missing something or doing something wrong ?






Second question is between coats I sand the surface level.
Do I need to polish the surface before applying another coat of resin ?
Or can I sand to 400 and apply another layer of epoxy ?
Been completely polishing the cue out before applying next coat .
Click to expand...

You need to make sure everything is dust free before you start mixing. Pour the 207 hardener first then the 105 resin, tilt the cup and mix well with something clean and smooth; I use a baby spoon and apply the epoxy with a 1" foam brush to the cue.

Wait 24 hrs and sand to 1500, make sure that you sand along the length of the cue, apply next coat. I do run my air filter when finishing and usually a fan while the cue is turning on the lathe for about 15-20 minutes to level out the finish. Three coats gives you a nice deep finish after polishing.

Mario
 
Thanks

Mcues said:
You need to make sure everything is dust free before you start mixing. Pour the 207 hardener first then the 105 resin, tilt the cup and mix well with something clean and smooth; I use a baby spoon and apply the epoxy with a 1" foam brush to the cue.

Wait 24 hrs and sand to 1500, make sure that you sand along the length of the cue, apply next coat. I do run my air filter when finishing and usually a fan while the cue is turning on the lathe for about 15-20 minutes to level out the finish. Three coats gives you a nice deep finish after polishing.

Mario
Click to expand...

Hi Mario

You are wet sanding to 1500 ?
 
Would the epoxy bond better to a rougher finish, say 800 grit, than sanding with 1500 and applying another coat. I'm not a cue builder, been a custom painter for many years so I thought I would check. Thanks
 
I've always read on here that almost every finish sticks best if you stop at 320 or 400 at the most,of course removing any dirt,oil,etc after that. Tommy D.
 
I have for quite some time, been mixing my epoxies in ziploc sandwich bags. I put the bag on the scales, put in the hardener 1st. Then I calculate the amount of resin required. I then bind and twist the bag at the level of the resin. I knead it slowly mixing the resin.Let it sit for a while, then snip the bottom corner off to pour out. The bag then becomes like an icing bag and gives you very good control of resin placement.
Neil
 
It is the nature of epoxy to develop bubbles when applying, even if you mix it without any bubbles like in the bag or vacuum chamber. Some epoxy bubbles will pop with the torch and others the torch just makes thing worse as they instantly come back or make dry craters. As far as sanding goes 320 to 400 grit is as fine as I think we need between coats.
 
Epoxy

I am not having issues with bubbles in the epoxy, least I don't think I am in less the bubble are so small I cant see them .
I am heating the cue and the epoxy un mixed and pouring the epoxy from one measuring cup to another to mix it , I do that for 5 minutes or more.
I don't want to rush and not get the epoxy correctly mixed.

Just a few little bumps on the surface of the epoxy .
The bumps are more like a pin or the very end of a needle.
I don't think its dirt or dust the I clean up where I am mixing and lay down butcher wrap paper over the top of the table and on my lathe , and I bought a big pick up load of surgical latex sterilized glove from this outfit going out of business, 75% off .
I am always gloved up .........................
It just weird to me and don't know if I am doing something wrong or not.
bumps seem to be on the surface , but everything is so transparent I cannot tell ?

Yes my second coat had craters in it, I don't know if it was me not spreading the epoxy correctly or the torch .

But sense I started to dig out these bumps and get the bubbles out of the mixed epoxy before applying to the cue, it seemed I get allot better apply coat of epoxy or finish.
I have been dipping a tooth pick in the epoxy and what it is sticking to the tooth pick and I wipe the tooth pick off.


There is not allot of these little bumps and there are so small I think it would be hard to photograph them.

I will try to photograph these bumps my next mix.

Sanding question between coats .
The finish is on a cue that has been dyed jet black , and I am worrying the swirls will be seen or will the next coat fill them in so they will not show ?

It take a few hours to get all the swirls out between coats on the finish over the black part of the cue.
The rest of the cue is deer and elk horn and these swirls cannot be seen near as easy as on the jet black dye part.
 
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can you post a picture of what you are talking about?
It sounds like mini fish eyes to me,but a picture will clarify the situation.
 
Next mix

conetip said:
can you post a picture of what you are talking about?
It sounds like mini fish eyes to me,but a picture will clarify the situation.
Click to expand...

I will next mix , or tomorrow. I will photograph it

Not fish eyes,,, I have painted a few cars and bikes and semi's.
I wipe down the cue with denatured alcohol ) a couple of times before putting on the next coat.
 
mortuarymike-nv said:
I am not having issues with bubbles in the epoxy, least I don't think I am in less the bubble are so small I cant see them .
I am heating the cue and the epoxy un mixed and pouring the epoxy from one measuring cup to another to mix it , I do that for 5 minutes or more.
I don't want to rush and not get the epoxy correctly mixed.

Just a few little bumps on the surface of the epoxy .
The bumps are more like a pin or the very end of a needle.
I don't think its dirt or dust the I clean up where I am mixing and lay down butcher wrap paper over the top of the table and on my lathe , and I bought a big pick up load of surgical latex sterilized glove from this outfit going out of business, 75% off .
I am always gloved up .........................
It just weird to me and don't know if I am doing something wrong or not.
bumps seem to be on the surface , but everything is so transparent I cannot tell ?

Yes my second coat had craters in it, I don't know if it was me not spreading the epoxy correctly or the torch .

But sense I started to dig out these bumps and get the bubbles out of the mixed epoxy before applying to the cue, it seemed I get allot better apply coat of epoxy or finish.
I have been dipping a tooth pick in the epoxy and what it is sticking to the tooth pick and I wipe the tooth pick off.


There is not allot of these little bumps and there are so small I think it would be hard to photograph them.

I will try to photograph these bumps my next mix.

Sanding question between coats .
The finish is on a cue that has been dyed jet black , and I am worrying the swirls will be seen or will the next coat fill them in so they will not show ?

It take a few hours to get all the swirls out between coats on the finish over the black part of the cue.
The rest of the cue is deer and elk horn and these swirls cannot be seen near as easy as on the jet black dye part.
Click to expand...

why are you heating the cue?
i've found when applying epoxy sealer, the cooler the cue is, the better.
i warm the epoxy .
still have a few bumps & pits.
sand to 320, hit it again .
 
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mortuarymike-nv said:
Hi Mario

You are wet sanding to 1500 ?
Click to expand...

Not wet sanding. Try to simplify your process. I don't heat the cue or the epoxy. I think pouring from one container to another in order to mix probably traps more air in the epoxy.

When preparing the cue I sand to 600 then the first coat goes on and thereafter dry sand to 1500 for the next two coats


Mario
 
Tommy-D said:
I've always read on here that almost every finish sticks best if you stop at 320 or 400 at the most,of course removing any dirt,oil,etc after that. Tommy D.
Click to expand...

When using the epoxy as a sealer I sanded to 600 and never had any problems. Now if I'm doing an epoxy finish I sand the cue to 600 and put the first coat on thereafter 1500 on the next two coats. You want the smoothest surfaces for the finishing coat.

I didn't choose this method without trying what was usually recommended.

Mario
 
I used west system but have switched to Max 1618........... seems to be very similar.............

Some woods will gas out and the bubbles come from that not from the epoxy........

The cue and the epoxy should be at 72 deg or above and you will get less bubbles or none..............

Also try thinner coats........... no need to sand in between coats the epoxy will stick just fine................ Apply the epoxy using a rubber glove and wipe it in hard.......... then wind up the lathe speed and do a slow pass up and down using 2 fingers and a thumb......

I mist my wet epoxy with DNA......it will flow out better and pop the bubbles....... note .... if you try that ...do not use the torch.

Kim
 
whammo57 said:
I used west system but have switched to Max 1618........... seems to be very similar.............

Some woods will gas out and the bubbles come from that not from the epoxy........

The cue and the epoxy should be at 72 deg or above and you will get less bubbles or none..............

Also try thinner coats........... no need to sand in between coats the epoxy will stick just fine................ Apply the epoxy using a rubber glove and wipe it in hard.......... then wind up the lathe speed and do a slow pass up and down using 2 fingers and a thumb......

I mist my wet epoxy with DNA......it will flow out better and pop the bubbles....... note .... if you try that ...do not use the torch.

Kim
Click to expand...

Are you saying your not sanding at all and polishing the cue. I've found that sanding in-between coats makes less work when I'm ready to polish. Just my opinion and experience.

Mario
 
Mcues said:
Are you saying your not sanding at all and polishing the cue. I've found that sanding in-between coats makes less work when I'm ready to polish. Just my opinion and experience.

Mario
Click to expand...

I am saying that I don't sand between coats of epoxy.................. and I use thin coats............ applied by hand with a rubber glove............. it requires a lot less sanding that way.....................

Kim
 
whammo57 said:
I am saying that I don't sand between coats of epoxy.................. and I use thin coats............ applied by hand with a rubber glove............. it requires a lot less sanding that way.....................

Kim
Click to expand...

So you are getting enough material on there before doing any sanding that the thinnest spots are still thick enough to not sand through with only one sanding process at the end? And the epoxy has no trouble sticking to itself in an unsanded state?

That makes sense as I have read to add layers this way to keep it clear on table top epoxy applications.

JC
 
JC said:
So you are getting enough material on there before doing any sanding that the thinnest spots are still thick enough to not sand through with only one sanding process at the end? And the epoxy has no trouble sticking to itself in an unsanded state?

That makes sense as I have read to add layers this way to keep it clear on table top epoxy applications.

JC
Click to expand...

the epoxy will stick to most anything......... don't worry about it not sticking....... I do rub it in and not just lay it on.................. I build my joint from .842 to start to about .855 to sand it.............in about 3 to 4 coats ....about 6 hours apart
.............. I weigh my epoxy mix and apply about 9 grams per coat


I sand it back to .846 and apply solarez UV finish.............

Kim

Kim
 
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