Ginacue popped over ivory, hopefully much or all fake.

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Ivory

As per what I read on the book of faces, it was unclear exactly how this all went down but what it did say is the Taiwanese guy Lui was arrested immediately following SBE, which of course was in April ( well before the ban took effect ). So there may be more to this story than what we've heard as of yet?????

For the love of humanity, if a cue was really worth 80K, I hope it was hollow and slam full of blow. Maybe that's what we are missing and it will come out later. Maybe then Ernie will be cleared of all this ivory mess! LOL
 
Ernie doesn't need to prove the ivory is legal.....the gov't needs to prove the ivory is ILLEGAL

Which can require destroying the cues just to prove whether it is ivory, let alone whether it is illegal or not.


I won't speculate on what happened or what will happen, but I will say I believe this is likely real trouble and of serious concern. These are feds, and there are politics involved. Look what happened to Gibson Guitars.


The reality, like it or not, is he may have a lot to prove, and it may not matter anyway. One can go broke just defending such a thing.




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13 cues is a lot of work and glue and woods need to set! Of course he could sacrifice quality for speed!

But then you would be the first to complain about such poorly made cues if he did "slap" them together and make the" window"

Kd

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You've obviously got it all figured-out.
 
The public disclosure of the new law did not allow sufficient time before going into effect and created a situation where citizens are instantly in violation of the law as soon as the law went into effect!

Legislation did not account for the contractual obligations and time of completion adequately!

A decent lawyer should be able to articulate the dilemma and get him off!

Kd

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There are no decent lawyers.

Look at the Supreme Court.

4 vote one way and the other 4 vote the opposite.

Does Ernie have "heads" or "tails".

I'd say the government has a rigged coin.
 
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Ernie doesn't need to prove the ivory is legal.....the gov't needs to prove the ivory is ILLEGAL

The way it was explained to me over a year ago and I don't want to drag anyone in to this but it was a pretty good source. With Ivory like with the IRS you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent.
 
This sucks and a huge turn off to owning such a material.

I live in California and can anyone tell me if I can get in trouble if i get pulled over with an ivory cue? Knowing the police I will assume they will want to check what is in the cue case since it looks like something suspicious for those not in the know.

What if i drove to a tournament in vegas?


I took my ivory jointed cue to China. They didn't even know what a pool cue was.
 
Gibson

Which can require destroying the cues just to prove whether it is ivory, let alone whether it is illegal or not.


I won't speculate on what happened or what will happen, but I will say I believe this is likely real trouble and of serious concern. These are feds, and there are politics involved. Look what happened to Gibson Guitars.


The reality, like it or not, is he may have a lot to prove, and it may not matter anyway. One can go broke just defending such a thing..

You are right, some pretty stiff fines to have and legal fees on top of that....

This is just crazy for a cue maker.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/2...rried-govt-will-take-their-guitars-away.shtml


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This is just horrible. Soon it will be politically incorrect to play with an ivory cue.

Players will now protest to tournament directors.

Tournaments will impose rules to disallow such items to be used.

I can see this happening.
 
I have learned a lot from reading all the comments about this here and on fb. Most can't read and understand simple English. Smh
 
Ebony and Ivory...
Two materials I can't use in harmony...
Some liberal jackass says that its not good
To mix elephant tusk with ebony wood...
Want to hang those tree hugging morons by a rope....
Starting with Obama and his change and hope...
 
How will this affect cue sales here on AZB, with sellers listing their cues that contain ivory?

Is it illegal to buy one?
 
The way it was explained to me over a year ago and I don't want to drag anyone in to this but it was a pretty good source. With Ivory like with the IRS you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent.

Who-whaaaaa????

As a tax accountant I'm not sure what you are referring to here. The IRS's first correspondence with you will be to alert you to where your calculations *may* be wrong and they invite you to open dialog (via snail mail) to support your facts. I have successfully defended many clients with no more than a single mailing to the IRS. They don't strong-arm people.

This is no different than the criminal proceedings which are currently in process against Ginacue. Now the opportunity to present one's case will be had. There are too many unknowns in this particular case to make an educated guess towards guilt or innocence at this time.
 
This law has caused a shit show.

Watch the FBI do stings on the for sale section. Get a seller to agree to send to a state where it is illegal and they are seeing federal charges.
 
I've Been Telling Ya "This is Real" per CA Fish & Wildlife Enforcement

It is going to come down to this........The only way Ernie can be found innocent of violating the CA ivory ban (AB-96 effective 7/1/16), not the Federal regulation, is if Ginacue can legally substantiate the following:

1. The ivory he used in the cue was actually pre-ban ivory.
2. The cue was actually built and shipped prior to July 1, 2016.

Both of these conditions are inviolate requirements under the CA ban and Ernie & possibly his customer under certain circumstances, have a big legal problem if the aforementioned conditions were not satisfied. If Ernie even assisted the shipping of a cue with ivory that he built before the ban took effect, it has no bearing. If shipping involves the sale of a cue, or a cue repair and "any" ivory was used, the cue had to be shipped by June 30, 2016. Any cue completed or shipped thereafter is a violation of the law. I know this to be factually true and I communicated that to Bob Owen & Jerry Rauenzahn whom were building me custom cues scheduled for completion after July 1, 2016. This past March, I updated them about what I was told by CA Fish & Wildlife and both guys moved heaven & earth to get my cues finished by this past Memorial Day weekend. And there's a shitload of ivory in these cues so I was definitely concerned about the CA regulation. Thank goodness both of these cues now safely reside in my cue case.

California cue-makers that have anything in their shop had better get rid of everything involving ivory because the head of Enforcement at CA Fish & Wildlife could be sending agents to your shop tomorrow.....and they have the authority to inspect your premises and business records. I've been warning about this on the Forum since May after I started having communications with the Enforcement Division about obtaining CITES documentation for my cues for my own protection.

If you get caught, you may not wind up receiving the criminal imprisonment penalty allowed under the law but rest assured, you will absolutely lose you cue and receive a substantial fine and the maximum fine is not totally unimaginable for a buyer ($5k). The ivory ban is a serious impediment to cue-making and naturally for all other uses & applications as well. Do not order a cue from a CA cue-maker with ivory or else just be prepared for problems. You are far better off buying the cue in person from a individual seller. If you reside in CA, meet on the other side of the Nevada state line when you buy or sell the cue. I was told very specifically what I need to do to sell my EP cue to help finance the purchase of a Hercek cue that would also have ivory. As long as I am not in the state of California when that takes place, i.e., both the sale of my EP cue & purchase of a Hercek cue, I satisfy California Assembly Bill AB-96 and it is completely legal & permissible.


Matt B.



p.s. If Ernie has documentation that the ivory was purchased legally and can show inventory control records for usage, he will not have to do anything else.
But the burden of proof is on Ernie....he must show he abides by the law that banned ivory after 1978. He just cannot state the ivory is legal and he must
prove it because ivory was banned long ago. If he does not have adequate documentation, then US Fish & Wildlife is permitted to test sample the ivory and
carbon date it for age. They drill into the pool cue and take as many samples as they are inclined to take. Some of the ivory in a cue might be a combination of
legal pre-ban ivory and more recently poached ivory. The only way to know is to sample all of the ivory. AND......damage to the cue is not the responsibility of
CA Fish & Wildlife......they are not liable for any damages under the law even if the ivory turned out to be all legal, pre-ban ivory......I got that straight from my
local Assemblyman's legal staff. Otherwise, the cost of enforcement could become prohibitively expensive that undermines the intent and overall purpose of
the regulation. CA Fish & Wildlife is indemnified under the law for testing the ivory in any article if proper documentation evidencing its legality is not available.

A photo is worth a thousand words......the below is why I follow the ivory ban so closely.
 

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