Eye Pattern Before Shooting

PoolBum said:
But more than accuracy is needed for cueball control (we can't control the cueball directly, of course, but obviously we can do so indirectly in how we execute the shot, otherwise there would be no such thing as playing position).

When I attempt to pocket a ball and also play position on the same shot, I not only have to be accurate in where my cueball contacts the object ball (and in where my tip contacts the cueball), but I also have to execute the shot in terms of the many other factors involved in controlling the cueball in order to get position for the next shot.

So, my question is, does the quiet eye technique help with those other factors as well, and if so, how?
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Simply put it gives the brain more visual data.

If I flipped 2 pages if images at you in
.250sec or quicker you will find them harder to describe. Give yourself .500sec and you can give more info. If you went say a whole 2...you can give a buttload of info.

Those stupid picture recognition games at the bars are based off similar principles.

That's where the idea of consistency comes in. If even say Scott and I are talking and I say the shot speed is a 5.

Let's say that's what everyone means by medium.

Well of course the speeds of the table change. Of course Scott and I understand each other.

But at the end of the day the real "system" is the visualization and the actual visual images those are based off of.

If feel is such a big proponent of the game no matter what, then wouldn't you say the eyes could possibly play The SINGLE most important role before anything else?

Yea sure some of us practice eyes closed....but we don't stumble into the pool hall with a blindfold on lol.

At the end of the day just don't be "twitchy" at a minimum. Slow your roll and pay attention.

-greyghost


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Gorramjayne said:
This is one of those things that you should probably not consciously think about, no matter what the studies say works best.



Besides, it's not just cue ball + object ball, you have your cue and the pocket to check too. Your eyes will do what they have to for your brain to work out the spacial relationships for all these objects, and depending, it could be a lot, it could be very little. I just don't see eye movement being part of PSR, because different shots require special consideration. When you have to back cut into a blind pocket, kick or bank, your eyes are also soaking in other reference points. Especially when you're hitting with sidespin on a longer shot, you're going to need to repeatedly check your tip, the edge of the CB, imagine the swerve. Every shot is going to require a different level of calculation and different reference points.



When I'm having a good day I hardly look at the CB, and when the pocket I'm going into isn't in the same line of sight as the object ball, I have no problem just relying on my peripheral vision to make the final aim adjustments. When I'm not having a good day or I've been playing for too many hours straight or I'm hungover or whatever, I end up having to focus extra hard to look at contact points on balls, to draw the path the ball is going to take, second guessing. Once you have to consciously tell yourself what to look at it's over you might as well pack it in and go home.



Because the thing is, your ability to judge spacial relationships and even your depth perception can be greatly affected by fatigue, blood sugar levels, and just natural fluctuations in your body throughout the day. If you try to turn these mostly subconscious and highly variable considerations into a routine you're going to just frustrate the living piss out of yourself.
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You practice things till they become natural.....so there's none of this consciously telling yourself any such thing.


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So I went to the pool hall last night with the idea that I would try and implement some semblance of the quiet eye method. It was interesting how this exposed my total lack of understanding on what I was doing with my eyes.

In any event, I think it went well. At times things felt funny, and I missed shots that I might not have previously, but I think certain shots that were not made consistently before have not become easier.

I can totally see how the ideas behind this method are helpful in shooting a pool ball or anything else. Since other methods have not worked for me, I am now giving this the "college try". I suspect I am going to stick with it.

Thank you to Scott Lee for posting on this thread.

Thank you to the others too.

kollegedave
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
This is about the biggest crock I have ever heard. And this is NOT a jab at Scott because a lot of people and instructors teach this ridiculous concept.

I was shooting an easy shot the other night and as I shot I was looking over at my old 1992 Sanyo 25 inch TV. It was to my left about 45 degrees. My cue went right through the target and I made the shot. My cue did not move towards my old 1992 25 inch Sanyo TV. Which, according to so many, it should have if the cue goes where the eyes go. But, of course, it didn't.

As our old buddy ENGLISH! would say.....oh, nevermind. If people are gullible enough to believe this garbage they can go and vote for Hillary.

r/DCP
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This, coming from a guy, that has owned his own table for years. Yet still struggles with the most basic of shots.

FTR, I don't think Scott was being literal.
 
kollegedave said:
To the extent most people talk about pre-shot routines, I hear and see them talk about how they physically move into a shooting position. I think there is comparatively little talk about a routine for eye movement between the cue ball and object ball prior to the shot.

I have tried a couple of routines for eye movement and none of them have really felt comfortable. I would be interested to hear what people on the forum do and why with regard to eye movement just before a shot.

I am NOT trying to get into a debate on whether to look at the cue ball or object ball last, I am more interested in what you do to get to that point.

Thank You in advance

kollegedave
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FYI, lots of info on this topic, including many links to "quiet eyes" study results, can be found on the eye pattern "best practices" resource page.

Enjoy,
Dave
 
kollegedave said:
So I went to the pool hall last night with the idea that I would try and implement some semblance of the quiet eye method. It was interesting how this exposed my total lack of understanding on what I was doing with my eyes.

In any event, I think it went well. At times things felt funny, and I missed shots that I might not have previously, but I think certain shots that were not made consistently before have not become easier.

I can totally see how the ideas behind this method are helpful in shooting a pool ball or anything else. Since other methods have not worked for me, I am now giving this the "college try". I suspect I am going to stick with it.

Thank you to Scott Lee for posting on this thread.

Thank you to the others too.

kollegedave
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Try this to help:

Don't worry so much about your eye patterns when you're standing up or even slightly bent over before your final stance. Look, look some more, look again, and don't worry about it yet.

But when you bend over into your final stance, you should reduce your eye movements to just what is necessary to finish your line up.

Distinguishing between the standing up part and the bending over part makes the whole quiet eye thingy work better, imho.

I think you're on the right track, as Scott says.


Jeff Livingston
 
You see how damn confusing this thread has become? We were doing alright until the two "experts" showed up. I don't know whether to shit, or go blind. No pun intended. :D
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
OH YES HE IS!

As well as a lot of other instructors too.

Like I said, the old saying "The cue goes where the eyes go".........COMPLETE GARBABE!

r/DCP
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Complete? 100% Total? Absolutely?

Didn't you just do what you accused Scott of doing?

As a general rule, your cue will go where you eyes go. If not, you'd better change something so you don't miss so often. I'm sure any player could use his eyes carefully and quietly to line up perfectly and then throw his cue over his head into the bar area. But so what? That's OBVIOUSLY not what Scott was advising.




Jeff Livingston
 
chefjeff said:
Complete? 100% Total? Absolutely?

Didn't you just do what you accused Scott of doing?

As a general rule, your cue will go where you eyes go. If not, you'd better change something so you don't miss so often. I'm sure any player could use his eyes carefully and quietly to line up perfectly and then throw his cue over his head into the bar area. But so what? That's OBVIOUSLY not what Scott was advising.




Jeff Livingston
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If your cue goes where your eyes go, what do you do on shots with english? Offset your head and throw off your sight picture? When you look at the object ball (assuming you do), now you no longer look at the contact point, or even where the cue ball is aimed, but rather wherever the cue is aiming?

What do you do on cut shots where the center line doesn't get anywhere near the object ball? Focus on a point on the rail 5 or 6 feet away, or find a spot on some other ball to look at?

I'm not trying to give anyone a hard time, and I understand the general concept Scott is talking about...and it may even be a good concept. I don't have an opinion one way or another because I don't pay much attention to it, and I'm not such a great player that I'd think what's good for me is good for everyone, anyway.

But what I can say is I hope to God the cue doesn't go where I look, because regardless where your quiet/noisy/whatever eyes are looking now, THAT'S going to force you to look in some pretty bizarre directions IMHO.
 
Let's see MIke...you've had your own table for more than 10 years. You have never played league, never played in a tournament, and you've taken lessons from a number of instructors (who all taught you the same basic principles)...yet you still struggle with the simplest shots, which you continue to diagram here, and ask us how you can continue to miss these shots.

I, on the other hand, teach all ability players, even pros, and for them the PEP is one of the most important things they learn. Believe what you choose to believe, but what you "poo poo" could well be what's holding you back from gaining even a toehold on a solid stroke...that, and an open mind. :rolleyes:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

DrCue'sProtege said:
OH YES HE IS!

As well as a lot of other instructors too.

Like I said, the old saying "The cue goes where the eyes go".........COMPLETE GARBABE!

r/DCP
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john coloccia said:
If your cue goes where your eyes go, what do you do on shots with english? Offset your head and throw off your sight picture? When you look at the object ball (assuming you do), now you no longer look at the contact point, or even where the cue ball is aimed, but rather wherever the cue is aiming?

What do you do on cut shots where the center line doesn't get anywhere near the object ball? Focus on a point on the rail 5 or 6 feet away, or find a spot on some other ball to look at?

I'm not trying to give anyone a hard time, and I understand the general concept Scott is talking about...and it may even be a good concept. I don't have an opinion one way or another because I don't pay much attention to it, and I'm not such a great player that I'd think what's good for me is good for everyone, anyway.

But what I can say is I hope to God the cue doesn't go where I look, because regardless where your quiet/noisy/whatever eyes are looking now, THAT'S going to force you to look in some pretty bizarre directions IMHO.
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On shots where I use side (english), my eyes have figured out the line on which the cue will travel and when I look up towards the OB for my final stroke, I slowly look up and as I do that, I "see" the line on which my cue will travel, and then my eyes go to the OB and stay there until the shot is over.

Does that make sense?

Jeff Livingston
 
chefjeff said:
On shots where I use side (english), my eyes have figured out the line on which the cue will travel and when I look up towards the OB for my final stroke, I slowly look up and as I do that, I "see" the line on which my cue will travel, and then my eyes go to the OB and stay there until the shot is over.

Does that make sense?

Jeff Livingston
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Sure it makes sense, but your cue isn't going where you look, and that's my only point. It's one of those things people say, but when you actually examine what it really means you see that no one actually shoots like that. I think generally speaking we like the cue ball to go where we look (or contact point, or whatever...some part of the cueball), and hopefully our bodies and mechanics work together to make that happen sort of naturally.
 
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