Eye Pattern Before Shooting

[chefjeff]

Sure it makes sense, but your cue isn't going where you look, and that's my only point. It's one of those things people say, but when you actually examine what it really means you see that no one actually shoots like that. I think generally speaking we like the cue ball to go where we look (or contact point, or whatever...some part of the cueball), and hopefully our bodies and mechanics work together to make that happen sort of naturally.

Yes, my cue IS going right down the line that I sighted, pointing at the OB or whatever target I have chosen for that shot (rail, spot on the wall, etc.).

Maybe you don't or can't do that and that's ok, to each his own. I'm not the expert teacher here, but I do it and it does work for me.

Perhaps we're just not communicating what it is we each do precisely.

 

[Scott Lee]

Your cuestick IS going where you look...you're looking at the OB. We're not talking about where the CB goes after striking the OB. That is determined by the spin and speed of the CB.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Sure it makes sense, but your cue isn't going where you look, and that's my only point. It's one of those things people say, but when you actually examine what it really means you see that no one actually shoots like that. I think generally speaking we like the cue ball to go where we look (or contact point, or whatever...some part of the cueball), and hopefully our bodies and mechanics work together to make that happen sort of naturally.

 

[john coloccia]

Yes, my cue IS going right down the line that I sighted, pointing at the OB or whatever target I have chosen for that shot (rail, spot on the wall, etc.).

Maybe you don't or can't do that and that's ok, to each his own. I'm not the expert teacher here, but I do it and it does work for me.

Perhaps we're just not communicating what it is we each do precisely.

In your last post you said you look down the cue line, and then look at the object ball. Since they're not lined up, you can't possibly look where the cue is going if you're looking at the object ball. It's not a matter of what I don't or can't do. It's what YOU said you do. I don't know what I look at. I just get comfortable and shoot.

It's just that there are number of people pushing this idea, but I don't think anyone actually does it. Scott himself said earlier that you either look at the object ball or cue ball, if I remember correctlyt? How do you do that, and still look where the cue is going, when the cue isn't even aimed at the object ball for many shots? That's a question that deserves an answer, even if the answer is a simple, "Well, I didn't mean it literally."

 

[john coloccia]

Your cuestick IS going where you look...you're looking at the OB. We're not talking about where the CB goes after striking the OB. That is determined by the spin and speed of the CB.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

You only shoot straight in shots? Even a beginner can see that for many, many shots the cue is not lined up anywhere near the object ball. And for anything other than straight in shots, even if the cue happens to fall on the OB, it generally doesn't fall on the contact point, or any other useful point.

 

[BRussell]

I think it's a good point, john coloccia. In most of the quiet eye studies they can look at the rim of the basket or the lip of the hole or the center of the target. In pool sometimes you're staring into space. I don't know for sure but my guess is that it would still be better to stare at something like the contact point (which may be different from the aiming point) than flit your eyes around while shooting.

 

[Pete]

MikeF...PEP stands for Pesonal Eye Pattern. It's how, where, when, why, and how long we look back and forth between the CB and the OB.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Crap, I thought it was how fast you get around the table for your next shot (he sure has a lot of PEP in his step:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup...

 

[BeiberLvr]

You only shoot straight in shots? Even a beginner can see that for many, many shots the cue is not lined up anywhere near the object ball. And for anything other than straight in shots, even if the cue happens to fall on the OB, it generally doesn't fall on the contact point, or any other useful point.

Technically, every shot is a straight in shot.

Whether or not you subscribe to the ghost ball method, your tip is always lined up with the ghost ball. This is true whether or not you are using any side spin.

So on a 90 degree cut, you can think your lined up to nothing, or you can realize that you're actually lined up to the ghost ball.

That's your target. That's where you look when making your final forward stroke. Unless you're one of those weirdos that looks at the CB last :grin-square:

 

[john coloccia]

Technically, every shot is a straight in shot.

Whether or not you subscribe to the ghost ball method, your tip is always lined up with the ghost ball. This is true whether or not you are using any side spin.

So on a 90 degree cut, you can think your lined up to nothing, or you can realize that you're actually lined up to the ghost ball.

That's your target. That's where you look when making your final forward stroke. Unless you're one of those weirdos that looks at the CB last :grin-square:

Well, that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about looking at the object ball, and the cue going where you look...which obviously can't work as a general rule. That's what is claimed. Yes, there are a lot of places that you can look where the cue goes where you look, but that's different than what's suggested.

Also, I don't understand how the cue is lined up with the ghost ball. First, there is no ghost ball, so there's no where for your eyes to focus, but there's squirt and swerve and often your cue is not even aligned to hit the imaginary ghost ball at all. So right there it seems like this can't possibly be true in a general sense. If you completely neglect those effects, at best you're focusing your eyes on a very specific spot, off center, on an already non-existent ball, so exactly where are the eyes focused again?

But since there is squirt and swerve to deal with, again I question how this can possibly work, even assuming your eyes can magically focus on a non-existent ghost ball.

To me it sounds like something that was maybe said off the cuff and not really thought through.

And guys, please keep in mind that I'm not the one making claims. If someone can show me how it's true in a way that take longer than 20 seconds to riddle it with holes, I am sincerely all ears. I'm well familiar with the concept of "shoot where you look", and trust it whole heartedly for things like archery, firearms and things like that. I just don't see "the cue goes where you look" as being something anyone actually does.

 

[Tramp Steamer]

Well, that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about looking at the object ball, and the cue going where you look...which obviously can't work as a general rule. That's what is claimed. Yes, there are a lot of places that you can look where the cue goes where you look, but that's different than what's suggested.
To me it sounds like something that was maybe said off the cuff and not really thought through.

Well, here's a flash for you. Very damn little is thought through, around this place.

 

[Skippy27]

Unless you're one of those weirdos that looks at the CB last :grin-square:

That would be me for a vast majority of my shots.

Though I would agree with you in that if you are looking at the object ball all the time, then you are not looking at where the CB is going and thus you are not looking down the shot line on many of your shots. Any shot further than half ball will be out in space, thus if you go by looking where you want the stick to go, then you should be looking off to the side of the OB as you stroke.

There was also a comment about side and the shot line. Using side causes the shot line to be slightly different as you are still wanting the CB to end up in the same spot after the squirt. So your stick is either parallel to the actual shot line or you are aiming away from the shot line and using the "squirt line" as the shot line. Would you guys agree with that?

 

[ceebee]

AGREE.. did you say AGREE...? Send me some stuff that you're smokin...

The term "agree to disagree" or "agreeing to disagree" is a phrase in English referring to the resolution of a conflict (usually a debate or quarrel) whereby all parties tolerate but do not accept the opposing position(s). It generally occurs when all sides recognise that further conflict would be unnecessary, ineffective or otherwise undesirable. They may also remain on amicable terms while continuing to disagree about the unresolved issues.

The phrase "agree to disagree" first appeared in print in 1770 when, at the death of George Whitefield, John Wesley wrote a memorial sermon which acknowledged, but downplayed, the two men's doctrinal differences:

There are many doctrines of a less essential nature ... In these we may think and let think; we may 'agree to disagree.' But, meantime, let us hold fast the essentials...

Hmmmph...

 

[greyghost]

If your a stick Aimer like myself your eyes follow cue stick and vice versa they are on same line ....ball Aimers and pivoters not nec so.




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[greyghost]

That would be me for a vast majority of my shots.



Though I would agree with you in that if you are looking at the object ball all the time, then you are not looking at where the CB is going and thus you are not looking down the shot line on many of your shots. Any shot further than half ball will be out in space, thus if you go by looking where you want the stick to go, then you should be looking off to the side of the OB as you stroke.



There was also a comment about side and the shot line. Using side causes the shot line to be slightly different as you are still wanting the CB to end up in the same spot after the squirt. So your stick is either parallel to the actual shot line or you are aiming away from the shot line and using the "squirt line" as the shot line. Would you guys agree with that?

In a really bland sense......I'm a parallel Aimer but I enter skewed and it takes lots of squirt out the shot. It's not really parallel.

I just shoot straight. Like delivery of cue i don't swoop etc.

Just straight


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[chefjeff]

In your last post you said you look down the cue line, and then look at the object ball. Since they're not lined up, you can't possibly look where the cue is going if you're looking at the object ball. It's not a matter of what I don't or can't do. It's what YOU said you do. I don't know what I look at. I just get comfortable and shoot.

It's just that there are number of people pushing this idea, but I don't think anyone actually does it. Scott himself said earlier that you either look at the object ball or cue ball, if I remember correctlyt? How do you do that, and still look where the cue is going, when the cue isn't even aimed at the object ball for many shots? That's a question that deserves an answer, even if the answer is a simple, "Well, I didn't mean it literally."

I said what I do and how I do it.

Take it or leave it.

Jeff Livingston

 

[dr_dave]

In your last post you said you look down the cue line, and then look at the object ball. Since they're not lined up, you can't possibly look where the cue is going if you're looking at the object ball

When people say "look at the OB last" they don't necessary mean "focus on the center of the OB." Sometimes they mean "focus on an aim point or line through or relative to the OB." And sometimes they just mean "don't look at the CB last."

I hope that helps,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

Sometimes they mean "focus on an aim point or line through or relative to the OB."

Check out the following video:

NV D.9 - How to Aim Pool Shots - from Vol-II of the Billiard University instructional DVD series

Once one decides on the required line of aim for a shot (e.g., by "seeing the angle," "visualizing the required ghost ball position," etc.), one can focus on an "amount of ball overlap" or a "spot or feature on the ball" or "a perceived distance relative to the ball edge, inside or outside" or "a spot on the cloth outside of the OB edge." All of these things can be characterized as "look at the OB."

Regards,
Dave

 

[john coloccia]

When people say "look at the OB last" they don't necessary mean "focus on the center of the OB." Sometimes they mean "focus on an aim point or line through or relative to the OB." And sometimes they just mean "don't look at the CB last."

I hope that helps,
Dave

It doesn't help because we're talking about the concept of "the cue goes where you look", not what it means to look at the object ball.

 

[dr_dave]

It doesn't help because we're talking about the concept of "the cue goes where you look", not what it means to look at the object ball.

Could some people mean "the CB goes where you look?" That would make more sense to me.

Dave

 

[john coloccia]

Could some people mean "the CB goes where you look?" That would make more sense to me.

Dave

We're in complete agreement here.

 

[evis]

Hey Scott,

How do you feel about focusing on the cb when getting down on the shot instead of the contact point first? I sight everything when I'm standing and when I'm ready to get down on shot I focus on the where I want to hit the cb, then I shift My eyes to the object ball and pull the trigger if everything looks good.