Jayson Shaw victim or defeated foe

captainjko said:
If I am playing someone and the call the wrong ball, even though it is clear which ball they are shooting, I am not going to say a word. People make mistakes everyday. So what, big deal..... If that was called a foul and I only needed 1 ball, or even run 100, to win the match, I would not feel like a champion winning in that way. Its crazy how many people want to "just win" no matter how they have to do it. I have stopped many opponents from shooting the wrong ball and lost because of it.... I guess I am just too much of a sportsman...
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Yeah, we all do that I'm guessing. I know I do, but this was a big tournament. To continue with the golf analogy, it's like if we were out with our weekend foursome and one of the guys just barely taps a ball during a friendly game, no harm no foul. You think that would stand in a PGA event? No way. You have to go by the rules in a real event or the event isn't legitimate. Sorry I should have said the results aren't legitimate.
 
Alex Kanapilly said:
Earl called the 2 and made the 10. He should have lost his turn. I don't know what you guys are arguing about this being a "technicality" are talking about. Either we have rules or we don't.

This wasn't some league night with a couple of hackers, this was supposed to be an important tournament. They lost all credibility in my opinion.

You don't get his mickey mouse shit in golf because they follow their own rules, and that game is seen as serious sport. It's obvious why pool isn't taken seriously.
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I've read all the threads on this....I like this the best...David, voice of reason.

image.jpg

There will always be two kinds of people in these arguments....
...for me, I always side with the SPIRIT of the law over the LETTER of the law.
 
So let me ask this question, if Irving Crane was playing Willie Mosconi and Crane called the two and shot the ten at the world championship what do you think would have happened?

Firstly, I believe the ref would have called loss of turn on Crane for calling the improper ball and if he didn’t you can be damn sure Mosconi would have jumped from his chair to bring it to his attention!
The TD made the only ruling he could with the available information, even attempting to utilize video replay. But there is no way a spectator’s footage should be used to over rule the official feed. Could you imagine the NFL over ruling a touchdown based on cell phone footage from a fan! That would be bush league

The TD’s preening and prancing definitely exacerbated the situation but I can understand his nerves in that situation but in future he should just come out and say upon review this is the call.
Once Jayson shook Earls hand Earl should not have been allowed to continue hitting balls, the TD should have instructed him to breakdown his equipment and leave the playing area. His continuation was a slap in the face to Shaw and Shaw reacted poorly as until that point he was nothing but a gentleman in dealing with a bad situation.

This kind of thing happens in all sports, as a college football review crew was just suspended and barred from working in the playoffs due to their call in the Central Michigan/Oklahoma State game. Jayson and Earl’s situation should be used as a learning experience for the future.

Bern
 
Big Bad Bern said:
So let me ask this question, if Irving Crane was playing Willie Mosconi and Crane called the two and shot the ten at the world championship what do you think would have happened?

Firstly, I believe the ref would have called loss of turn on Crane for calling the improper ball and if he didn’t you can be damn sure Mosconi would have jumped from his chair to bring it to his attention!
The TD made the only ruling he could with the available information, even attempting to utilize video replay. But there is no way a spectator’s footage should be used to over rule the official feed. Could you imagine the NFL over ruling a touchdown based on cell phone footage from a fan! That would be bush league

The TD’s preening and prancing definitely exacerbated the situation but I can understand his nerves in that situation but in future he should just come out and say upon review this is the call.

Anyone who knows business knows that this is how people in business holding titles of authority are taught to speak this way.In corporate authority training; you are taught to move continually while speaking. This gives naysayers a moving target in questioning/challenging you. The belief is that a naysayer is less likely to be able to accurately hit a moving target.

Once Jayson shook Earls hand Earl should not have been allowed to continue hitting balls, the TD should have instructed him to breakdown his equipment and leave the playing area. His continuation was a slap in the face to Shaw and Shaw reacted poorly as until that point he was nothing but a gentleman in dealing with a bad situation.
Jogging my memory; didn't Shaw have an "issue" with Earl at some other tournament last year ?? (possibly at Snookers on the Joss tour last year?)
If Karen didn't beat Earl at TS, would this have happened in the final at TS??

This kind of thing happens in all sports, as a college football review crew was just suspended and barred from working in the playoffs due to their call in the Central Michigan/Oklahoma State game. Jayson and Earl’s situation should be used as a learning experience for the future.

This arch enemy player thing (ala Oregon Duck Mascot) is starting to wear thin Jason.
Bern
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLBMnWHd6aw&feature=youtu.be <----- Note: NSFW there is language
 
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I don't know if anyone has posted this yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDcA4D9LDQY
It is very clear he said "two ball". I read somewhere in this thread that maybe he called the 10 but with accent that wasn't clear. No. And even if this was the case, why did Earl got furstrated when Jason pointed out that he called the 2? He smacked his cue because he realised his mistake.
 
Dunnn51 said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLBMnWHd6aw&feature=youtu.be <----- Note: NSFW there is language
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Awesome video of a supercharged moment.

If Earl had just shaken Jason's hand and said a few kind words in reply, Jason would have probably just accepted it. Jason was already steamed, but was clearly willing to move on. Earl's bad sport reaction is what set Jason off. Earl was lucky to get out of that one with all his teeth.
 
TATE said:
Awesome video of a supercharged moment.

If Earl had just shaken Jason's hand and said a few kind words in reply, Jason would have probably just accepted it. Jason was already steamed, but was clearly willing to move on. Earl's bad sport reaction is what set Jason off. Earl was lucky to get out of that one with all his teeth.
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Earl may have a history of poor sportsmanship, but in this case I agree with those who say that Earl didn't want the concession and wanted to finish shooting the balls. (he did shake his hand, BTW). I don't think that is bad sportsmanship.
 
Neither victim nor defeated foe. He conceded, quit, whatever you want to call it.
 
GideonF said:
(he did shake his hand, BTW). I don't think that is bad sportsmanship.
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Yeah, he shook his hand.... and then continued shooting. Not a bad sportsmanhip huh?

In the video I posted here (post #288), you can clearly hear him calling the 2. And then in this video (https://www.facebook.com/arturo.reyes.104855/videos/10154118342558401/ ) in about 19 second in, you can hear Earl arguing that "nobody called a ball!"... Lying and not admitting your mistake isn't a bad sportsmanship in your opinion sir? He could at least admit he called the wrong ball and argue that he confused, both being blue, but he didn't. He straight up lied.

Also, in the video I posted he smash his cue on the floor when Jason says that he called the 2. Smashing your cue is the "gentlemen thing to do in pool", right?...
 
Koop said:
Did I read correctly that a spectator got hit with a flying pool ball?
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Yep. The European fans and supporters continue to demean Earl Strickland and say nothing about his opponent throwing pool balls in anger at the railbirds. Go figure!:o
 
AlienObserver said:
Yeah, he shook his hand.... and then continued shooting. Not a bad sportsmanhip huh?

In the video I posted here (post #288), you can clearly hear him calling the 2. And then in this video (https://www.facebook.com/arturo.reyes.104855/videos/10154118342558401/ ) in about 19 second in, you can hear Earl arguing that "nobody called a ball!"... Lying and not admitting your mistake isn't a bad sportsmanship in your opinion sir? He could at least admit he called the wrong ball and argue that he confused, both being blue, but he didn't. He straight up lied.

Also, in the video I posted he smash his cue on the floor when Jason says that he called the 2. Smashing your cue is the "gentlemen thing to do in pool", right?...
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I have said that in the video I saw, it sounds to me like Earl said "two ball". In this video, when he says "nobody called a ball" it isn't clear to me that he is saying it about this time, because he follows it up with something like "I could have called you for not calling shots" - in other words, he could be saying that it doesn't matter what he said.

Is there any video where someone asks Earl what he called and he says 10b? If that is there, then I consider it bad sportsmanship if he knows he called the 2 (as I've also previously said, a player who actually meant to say 10 but says 2 probably would think he said 10).
 
GideonF said:
I have said that in the video I saw, it sounds to me like Earl said "two ball". In this video, when he says "nobody called a ball" it isn't clear to me that he is saying it about this time, because he follows it up with something like "I could have called you for not calling shots" - in other words, he could be saying that it doesn't matter what he said.

Is there any video where someone asks Earl what he called and he says 10b? If that is there, then I consider it bad sportsmanship if he knows he called the 2 (as I've also previously said, a player who actually meant to say 10 but says 2 probably would think he said 10).
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As I said in post #288, Earl smashed his cue when Shaw said that he called the 2. In my opinion this indicates that he acknowledges he made a mistake. Why would he smash his cue if he called the correct ball? Imagine a scenario where you did nothing wrong (or think you did nothing wrong) and your opponent jump of his seat and argues you made a foul. I think that you would be surprised and ask what did you do wrong.
But, if you know you made a foul, and even worse a stupid foul (not caused by missing or stroking the ball wrong) you would be angry with yourself straight away, as was Earl 2 seconds after shooting the cue ball.
Now, imagine that you were Earl Strickland, and smashing your cue when you make a mistake is your signature move. (https://youtu.be/stJqzaHMNZs?t=55s)
 
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Vohladio said:
Interesting to see an official rule about this situation. I personally disagree with it, but if this is the official rule then it should be upheld.

However, in some of the videos and Facebook comments Jayson is saying that earlier in the match Earl did the exact same thing (called a ball, shot a different ball) and the referee gave the table over to Shaw. So a precedent had been set during the match and was then changed.
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Vohladio,
There are always different perspectives about things like this. Another person might say that the earlier call going against Earl was a "mistake" and not a "precedent".

Personally, I don't like to hear about professional players arguing over rules. I think the 14.1 committee has more clearly defined the rule that governs this situation. It is easy to see how Jayson was disappointed in not getting the same result as the earlier shot with Earl (where Earl was penalized).

Earl should have shaken Jayson's hand at the end regardless, UNLESS there were bad words exchanged between Jayson and Earl BEFORE Jayson attempted to shake Earl's hand, that I could not hear..

The rule is much clearer now that I have read it and hopefully this will reduce or eliminate the acrimony that erupts from situations like this.

Also, on a personal note: I believe that if a player is undoubtedly shooting a particular ball and accidentally makes a verbal faux pas, the evidence should take precedence over the verbal faux pas. So I guess I agree with the redefined ruling of 14.1.

JoeyA
 
JoeyA said:
Vohladio,
There are always different perspectives about things like this. Another person might say that the earlier call going against Earl was a "mistake" and not a "precedent".

Personally, I don't like to hear about professional players arguing over rules. I think the 14.1 committee has more clearly defined the rule that governs this situation. It is easy to see how Jayson was disappointed in not getting the same result as the earlier shot with Earl (where Earl was penalized).

Earl should have shaken Jayson's hand at the end regardless, UNLESS there were bad words exchanged between Jayson and Earl BEFORE Jayson attempted to shake Earl's hand, that I could not hear..

The rule is much clearer now that I have read it and hopefully this will reduce or eliminate the acrimony that erupts from situations like this.

Also, on a personal note: I believe that if a player is undoubtedly shooting a particular ball and accidentally makes a verbal faux pas, the evidence should take precedence over the verbal faux pas. So I guess I agree with the redefined ruling of 14.1.

JoeyA
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Joey, professionalism and common courtesy are totally alien subjects to Earl..You can absolutely count on him, to be at his worst in any given situation!..I am actually shocked when he gets through an entire match, without throwing a complete tantrum, or breaking a stick!

I know I have bad-mouthed him before, but I am always surprised when someone as pool savvy as you, expects anything different from him..He is, and always has been, an embarrassment to the game!..John MacEnroe was a mild-mannered 'cub scout' compared to Earl Strickland! :rolleyes:

PS..I fully expect the "Earl lover's" to try to defend the indefensible! :cool:
 
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The rule in question is to inform the intent of the shot. Not for a nit to take advantage of a slip of the lip. Shaw and everyone else knew what he was shooting at. To sit there and let a person make that kind of slip up and to try to capitalize on it is a nit move. Who wins should be about who shoots the best and not about calling the balls the correct number. Again, the rule is to show what the intended shot is, not to catch someone calling a ball the wrong number. It is a pool shooting
tournament and not a ball calling tournament.
 
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