Good to know. I've only heard good things about Eddie Cohen. I think you should ask Pete to send him an email.
Freddie
Money lost but unethical Cuemaker found
- Thread starter enyaw
- Start date
Freddie
We agreed on the price and timeline.
You cancelled with no reason.
All i asked was to have cuemaker email me, asked 3 times
NO response then you post on here.
You have already wasted peoples time on Open Billiards Market.
You have a track record for doing this.
You cancelled with no reason.
All i asked was to have cuemaker email me, asked 3 times
NO response then you post on here.
You have already wasted peoples time on Open Billiards Market.
You have a track record for doing this.
It would be more helpful if you had an actual contact then the right thing to do would be whatever the contract said in case of a breach.
But you don't.
Here is the thing, creatives, artists, etc... all take deposits. Although technically it should be a retainer because there are different laws about deposits vs. retainers. Especially in California.
The reason they take deposits is because they have to do several things when they get a new commission. They have to schedule time to work on it. They have to get materials, they have to think about it and plan it. They have to prep the materials and they have to deal with the customer.
From your perspective, he hasn't done anything. From his perspective he has done a lot already:
He has obtained material.
He has prepared material.
He has thought about your design.
He has driven around.
He has spent hours communicating with you.
He has worked up another estimate.
He has arranged his work schedule to fit in your project - possibly turning down other work that he might not be able to get now.
You might think well, it's only a few hours and his time should be worth $XX per hour so $XXX is plenty of money. Being paid by the hour is irrelevant for business people. In order to survive in business he needs to be paid for his effort, inconvenience, hassle, thoughts and resources.
And most of all he needs to be paid for the opportunity cost of dealing with you. Opportunity cost is the amount he would make if he were doing something more productive with the time he's spent dealing with this. The time, resources and schedule that he has devoted to your project he couldn't devote to making other cues, finding more business, etc...
Otherwise it just isn't worth it.
It's a business. It sounds like you had a misunderstanding about timelines and you're pushing him a little - and he doesn't want to deal with someone who doesn't understand that his time is valuable and these things take time.
He's letting you off easy by giving you anything back at all. He obviously wants to be done with this as much as you do.
Honestly I have no idea about Southwest, I am speaking about contracts and in general. I can tell you in anything cues SW is the exception - not the rule. As others have said deposits keep certain kind of people from wasting other people's time. Couple things it seems you don't realize. In the professional world when you pay money it's not just for physical work, materials, etc If he spends time thinking about what he is gonna do to your cue well that is part of the service you contracted. If you don't like paying for that aspect then you should buy a Player or something. And once again the email was to cover his ass, as he surely saw trouble possibly coming out of it. One last thing, when you and he contracted he very well may have had to turn down a different full paying job.
Running out of popcorn......
So , it's a tale of two makers now.
Whatever.
So , it's a tale of two makers now.
Whatever.
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A tale of a California CueMaker
You can't even answer simple questions like how does your cue hit or give me a solid quote of everything. You tell me you bought materials, I offered to buy them off you. Then you give me other excuses.
I have asked him 3 times to email you but for god knows what reason he doesn't want to. I am just trying to resolve the matter, get my blank and start building my cue. And you just reply me with that last email. Saying I forfeit everything. Am I supposed to point a gun to omens head and ask him to contact you?
I've done my best to show you what he has emailed me so we can both move on?
Additionally, I have heard people tell me that you live 20 mins away from Martin.
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You can't even answer simple questions like how does your cue hit or give me a solid quote of everything. You tell me you bought materials, I offered to buy them off you. Then you give me other excuses.
I have asked him 3 times to email you but for god knows what reason he doesn't want to. I am just trying to resolve the matter, get my blank and start building my cue. And you just reply me with that last email. Saying I forfeit everything. Am I supposed to point a gun to omens head and ask him to contact you?
I've done my best to show you what he has emailed me so we can both move on?
Additionally, I have heard people tell me that you live 20 mins away from Martin.
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I'll say it again. Just ask Pete to send an email to Eddie to confirm he is on board with this. He can CC you. Are you trying to tell us that Pete has denied you in sending an email directly? That doesn't make sense.
This is simple. You want out. Eddie wants out.
A tale of a California CueMaker
You think I've not tried it already? I've asked him to send Eddie the mail 2 or 3 times do I need to take screenshots of the email for you to see to be convinced?
What can I do if y'all cue makers do not want to email each other. I've tried my best to screen shot omen acknowledging that he would receive the blank and sending it to Eddie.
Tell me what else can I do.
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You think I've not tried it already? I've asked him to send Eddie the mail 2 or 3 times do I need to take screenshots of the email for you to see to be convinced?
What can I do if y'all cue makers do not want to email each other. I've tried my best to screen shot omen acknowledging that he would receive the blank and sending it to Eddie.
Tell me what else can I do.
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You think I've not tried it already? I've asked him to send Eddie the mail 2 or 3 times do I need to take screenshots of the email for you to see to be convinced?
What can I do if y'all cue makers do not want to email each other. I've tried my best to screen shot omen acknowledging that he would receive the blank and sending it to Eddie.
Tell me what else can I do.
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Have it shipped to you?
I would gladly have him ship it to me if he's willing to pay overseas shipping
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now you have more demands over petty amounts of money. no one is going to want to deal with you. you want too much hand holding form someone making you a cue. it doesnt work that way.
you want him to pay you for the postage to get your blank back when you backed out of a deal. whats wrong with you.
he has every right and should keep all your deposit and make you pay full postage and handling charges for returning your blank.
you have a lot to learn about dealing with people.
you want him to pay you for the postage to get your blank back when you backed out of a deal. whats wrong with you.
he has every right and should keep all your deposit and make you pay full postage and handling charges for returning your blank.
you have a lot to learn about dealing with people.
I ordered 4 cues from Cohen,put up over $1000
he missed several promised delivery dates and I told him I wanted my money back
He returned all the money cheerfully
I will never work with him but he returned my money
So I see no reason why he would not return yours ,unless he
felt you reneged
you have not convinced me
I am not sure that you are making a good case
he missed several promised delivery dates and I told him I wanted my money back
He returned all the money cheerfully
I will never work with him but he returned my money
So I see no reason why he would not return yours ,unless he
felt you reneged
you have not convinced me
I am not sure that you are making a good case
The response from Pete screams to me that you have a communication issue with Pete as well.
You think I've not tried it already? I've asked him to send Eddie the mail 2 or 3 times do I need to take screenshots of the email for you to see to be convinced?
What can I do if y'all cue makers do not want to email each other. I've tried my best to screen shot omen acknowledging that he would receive the blank and sending it to Eddie.
Tell me what else can I do.
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Good luck. I'm out.
Freddie
Eddie has done a great job on everything I know he's been involved with. Yes he is getting a lot of orders and is busy because he really does a nice job.
To the OP - Let me get this straight. You place an order with a cue maker, have him run around for you, pay a deposit, change the order, shop the price with other cue makers, then cancel the order and ask for a refund?
What do you consider to be your responsibility as a buyer?
To the OP - Let me get this straight. You place an order with a cue maker, have him run around for you, pay a deposit, change the order, shop the price with other cue makers, then cancel the order and ask for a refund?
What do you consider to be your responsibility as a buyer?
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I remember when you first dealt with EC how much you liked his work. It's a shame that cue makers cannot manage their time but that's how custom work is right. All they have to do is say it will take 6 months,1 year, whatever. That seems to be the biggest issue. When I bought my first custom the cue maker said it will take a few months and I waited. Worked out great. I dealt with Sly last year. 5 weeks for a sneaky stretched out to 5 months. If he said that to begin with everything would be fine. So I'll never use or recommend him. The one man shops beat the same drum.
You don't get to arbitrarily decide how much his time is worth unless you can give it back to him. You wasted his time by backing out of the deal and reneging on the contract, so the deposit you left with him is at his mercy. If he decided to back out or failed to live up to promises it would be a different story, but because you are the problem here, any leverage you have has been forfeited.
Why aren't custom cue buyers and cue makers demanding terms in writing???? It would be the best fair way to protect BOTH parties. These stories come up way too often. Heck, I don't even hire a plumber or general contractor unless terms are agreed upon in writing, even for work that's paid only a few hundred dollars!
I have been very honest with Eddie from the outset and explained to him my situation and what i was looking for in a cue maker, he didn't have much problem asking me for my deposit straight away. If Eddie feels that he isn't much of the hand holding cue maker, then he should have told me i should find a different cue maker because our values don't align but he did no such thing.
And evidently everyone misses the point here. I'm not sure if it was too long that y'all didn't bother to read it or just missed it.
If Eddie has been outright frank and honest with me about the investment of his time instead of giving me some lousy excuse about the materials, and changing his story immediately when i offered to buy his materials, things would not have gone to this stage.
Secondly he told me he was a 2 hours drive to Martin's place which i have been told was 20 minutes tops. (At this point in time i was still considering on simplifying the design to reach my budget)
The main point is not whether he is right to hold the deposit but he keeps changing his story when i offer a solution to the problem he proposed. This is what i have issue about somehow everyone is too fixated on the problem with money and forgets that the issue i have here is about morals and how he cooks up stories.
Back to the point, how much is time is worth is not not up to you to decide it's between me and Eddie, so i offered him 50 dollars for his time, pay for paypal fees and cover shipping over to the new cue maker. Eddie himself was the one that said he would pay for the shipping and refund me 125.
So don't go and assume that i forced him to pay for shipping when i did no such thing. That was the agreement between me and Eddie.
Which then somehow broke down due to Eddie refusing to take a screenshot that Pete sent me as proof he would receive it or passing all responsibility to me and somehow Pete didn't mail Eddie which i've no idea why also. And Eddie started to be a dick and threatened for me to forfeit everything if he doesn't get a mail from Pete, like i said so many times i asked him twice and somehow he hasn't sent the mail. I can't possibly point a gun to his head to force him to do it can i.
So Eddie instead of saying you take full responsibility for the shipping of the blank to which i will say sure i will, decides to threaten me. I thought y'all cue makers were all better friends with each other.
But hey capitalism right? Who has time for friends.
And to Mr Cornerman, i believe that my communication with Pete is good enough despite the fact that he's facing a typhoon and has no power. I don't see how you can see any response from Pete. Anyway, Pete just informed me that power has been restored and he is cleaning up his shop right now to begin work tomorrow.
Once again i hope the meaning behind this message isn't lost.
For those who forgot, or was too lazy to read the main points are
#1 Eddie gave was material cost which i offer to buy after which he didn't talk a single thing about materials
#2 He claimed he was 2 hours away from Martin when people have told me he was just 20 minutes away.
#3 We have reached an agreement so all of y'all who want to play the judge or jury can carry on to do to humour yourself. But the point here is not how much his time is worth but rather how we reached the end after he kept giving me different reasons to keep the deposit, if he was so sure about one thing he'd have said it and be done with it.
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Are you saying that if he failed to live up to his promise i can demand that he charges me lesser or gives me extra inlays for free?
Eddie has a good reputation around Los Angeles and environs. Sounds to me like Eddie conducted his business here in a pretty straightforward manner. The OP got his britches in a bunch when he found out he wasn't Eddie's only valued customer. The OP's statement about wanting some hand holding from his cue maker was when he lost me.
I'm waiting now for a couple of months for a cue made by a well known cue maker, with no inlays. It was a fairly simple job since he had previously prepared blanks. He told me 6-8 weeks on this one and we've gone over that now. One e-mail from him with an update and I'm cool with the process. I will wait patiently by the mailbox until it arrives. :thumbup:
I'm waiting now for a couple of months for a cue made by a well known cue maker, with no inlays. It was a fairly simple job since he had previously prepared blanks. He told me 6-8 weeks on this one and we've gone over that now. One e-mail from him with an update and I'm cool with the process. I will wait patiently by the mailbox until it arrives. :thumbup: