The whole point of this thread is that, one, USA is still in the lead of almighty Cup wins.
Number two, the Mosconi Cup, as you rightly pointed out, favors European style of pool -- short races to 5 and slop counts.
Team USA Still in the Lead
- Thread starter JAM
- Start date
The whole point of this thread is that, one, USA is still in the lead of almighty Cup wins.
Number two, the Mosconi Cup, as you rightly pointed out, favors European style of pool -- short races to 5 and slop counts.
SUREEE if u say so.
Then why are the americans shooting blanks on those huge buckets n why arent they slopping in em 9 balls on the break then
The only usa player that really played well i feel is Rodney who delivered a major k-o to hotshot jayson but it was a little too late.
Maybe if the referee would ask the European spectators to be quiet when the Americans shoot, it would change the tempo.
Between the screaming, singing, and foot stomping of the European audience, it's a wonder the Americans can even make a ball.
Yes, I do applaud Rodney for his calmness at the table. Of course, he's got more seasoning than the younger guys. :smile:
Maybe we have a language barrier, but that's a little too much for me to visualize when it comes to pool.
And wu chia ching was winning the world 9ball when sky n justin was learning how to shave then except wu was younger lol.
If Niels is too old, lets look at Albin, man's 26 , runner-up at 2014 world 9ball runner-up, 2015 champion killing Shane n China open 2015 champ ( big money comp ), strong finishes in Euro Tour n won many european tournies.
Decahine n Bergman is 30 and what have they acheive ?!!
World titles ?
Us open ?
International titles ?
Major us titles ?
Change is life.
Mosconi himself was not a huge fan of 9 ball IIRC
Wasn't he pretty decent at that new fangled game straight pool?
You're right, Mosconi wasn't crazy about 9 ball, he wasn't a big gambler & 9 ball was ALWAYS about gambling, my father referred to it as a "Carnival Game" compared to Straights.
As far as change being a part of life, yeah it is in life, but this is pool & it shouldn't be. Again what I love about pool is the dynamic that no other sport has, domination.
14.1 rules remain, as do those in 1 pocket, banks. Only 9 ball rules are changing & only really in the last 15 years or so. Euros & others getting dominated by big breaking, risk taking American players led to the others whining, bringing about alt breaks completely changing the game & its unique dynamic, that's a loss IMO, not progress.
Then again I like playing ahead sets vs races also as in ahead sets your opponent has to BEAT YOU, DOMINATE YOU, or you him. No slithering out hill-hill on a roll, that's leaves one feeling so unsatisfied, well unless you're a ninny. This has become a game for ninnies, perhaps that's why gambling has shifted to 1 pocket vs 9 ball as it used to be. I don't like the new civilized everybody gets a turn game.
My other half agrees with this line of thinking, 100 percent, and has stated so many times.
Thati dont deny, european fans r known for being rowdy , but wldnt the cup alternate between each country every year , so the americans will get their chances when its hosted last year or next ?
Im not sure about that , just asking.
I think it wld be fair to alternate yearly to give each other home ground advantage
Thati dont deny, european fans r known for being rowdy , but wldnt the cup alternate between each country every year , so the americans will get their chances when its hosted last year or next ?
Im not sure about that , just asking.
I think it wld be fair to alternate yearly to give each other home ground advantage
Americans are not as loud when we host the Cup. Of course, Americans show a lot of class when it comes to hosting pocket billiard events.
what a bs
102 - 64 games now since 2007......... nuff said, dominance in every department!
btw i would love to see a big moneymatch between any of the US team except shane vs any of euros team esp niels or jayson..... gl finding someone staking them lol
and yes, the short races might favour the euros, but also those tricky races to 9 or 11 doesnt seem to fit for the US players since i see noone except shane winning something big...... not even shane globally! i only see one solution for team US to win the cup in near future, 9b back where it belongs on the break, ball in hand when the euros get a roll and let shane play ALL the matches, maybe he finally finds some rythm then!
102 - 64 games now since 2007......... nuff said, dominance in every department!
btw i would love to see a big moneymatch between any of the US team except shane vs any of euros team esp niels or jayson..... gl finding someone staking them lol
and yes, the short races might favour the euros, but also those tricky races to 9 or 11 doesnt seem to fit for the US players since i see noone except shane winning something big...... not even shane globally! i only see one solution for team US to win the cup in near future, 9b back where it belongs on the break, ball in hand when the euros get a roll and let shane play ALL the matches, maybe he finally finds some rythm then!
lol, this alone speaks volumes about the attitude to, and issues with, pool in America.
Keith watched a few matches yesterday and said the short races don't favor Americans. If they were longer sets, we might see a new sheriff in town.
Shows how much Keith knows, then.
You'd still lose, only this time you'd be losing to a country with a few hundred pool players, tops.
If only it were held in America every other year...
Honestly, this whole thread is utterly ridiculous. But I suppose that's to be expected.
Well..,
People have shifted to One Pocket because its alternate break which means you get a chance to start with the advantage. You don't have to make that tough shot for your Money you can duck or take a foul. One Pocket doesn't require any special break skills and if you really understand the game you can stay in there with a player far better then you, still be competitive.
The whole world is playing 9 Ball and now that we cant win its the game, no its the player. Don't hate the game, hate the player!
People have shifted to One Pocket because its alternate break which means you get a chance to start with the advantage. You don't have to make that tough shot for your Money you can duck or take a foul. One Pocket doesn't require any special break skills and if you really understand the game you can stay in there with a player far better then you, still be competitive.
The whole world is playing 9 Ball and now that we cant win its the game, no its the player. Don't hate the game, hate the player!
European tournament soldiers are one-trick ponies. The Mosconi Cup is tailored to European style of play -- short races to 5. Let those tournament soldiers play a long race for real money and see who comes out on top. My money is on the Americans.
The Mosconi Cup is all fun and games, and I enjoy the festivities. I know where the real strength lies in pool. That's why most European players move to the States and live. Where does Jayson live? Where does Darren live? Speaks volumes.
One trick ponies indeed.
What a joke. Europe has 3-4 teams of people that would smash you team of "best players". We have players travelling all over the world, winning titles wherever they go.I put it to you that it's the US players who are the one trick ponies! Every time the gambling thing comes up, is after the US got stomped in some tournament. "Yeah, well if they were playing on a gaff 7 foot table for money, the US would win". Well, they don't, so you won't!
Gambling isn't about pool at all. Tournament pool is the pure pool, where it's about the shots and not the circumstances surrounding the players. Nobody gets jarred, high rolled or tricked by a gaffed up table! It's all about shooting the shots.
The European players travel to the US because your tournaments pay out more money and it's easier to win. That's the whole reason. It's not because US pool players are better. If that were true, they'd go to Taiwan or the Phillipines, that's where the very best live at the moment! BTW, both Americans and Europeans have gone to the Phillipines to hone their games. The Eurotur has very tough competition, but it doesn't pay very much to win one, so it's impossible to make it as a pro in Europe.
Its the same story every year.
americans are the better money players, shane would beat them all, bergman would rob them all... longer sets no chance for europe...
appleton was playing for money in the phillipines, feijen did, nearly all other euros play for money too.
so dont think they are only good in playing tournaments...
the problem of the americans is that there is no chemistry in the team, dechaine, bergman and van boening are all no team players, all of them are beasts on there own and fantastic players, but not in a team...
no chemistry means bad emotions, every loss or roll of europe leads in more bad chemistry, usa looked like loosers from the first match they lost, they play just really bad, it seems that nobody is ready to really take this fight for every single ball.
if i where american i would hate to see my team loosing like that year for year, but i would never complain with those childish arguments, like longer sets,play for money... wtf, nobody cares for that, it counts what you show in mosconi cup, when mosconi cup is played, nothing else.
if some euro would play shane in a long set for money, and loose it, i would say, well played shane, in money matches he is one of the best.
i would never start complaining like, but in tournaments the euro is better blabla, nobody cares!!!
maybe a wonder will happen and the americans start to fight and play pool like they are able to, so we all would have a match and something to sweat about, nobody wants to see loosing the USA like this, and i say that as an europe!!
americans are the better money players, shane would beat them all, bergman would rob them all... longer sets no chance for europe...
appleton was playing for money in the phillipines, feijen did, nearly all other euros play for money too.
so dont think they are only good in playing tournaments...
the problem of the americans is that there is no chemistry in the team, dechaine, bergman and van boening are all no team players, all of them are beasts on there own and fantastic players, but not in a team...
no chemistry means bad emotions, every loss or roll of europe leads in more bad chemistry, usa looked like loosers from the first match they lost, they play just really bad, it seems that nobody is ready to really take this fight for every single ball.
if i where american i would hate to see my team loosing like that year for year, but i would never complain with those childish arguments, like longer sets,play for money... wtf, nobody cares for that, it counts what you show in mosconi cup, when mosconi cup is played, nothing else.
if some euro would play shane in a long set for money, and loose it, i would say, well played shane, in money matches he is one of the best.
i would never start complaining like, but in tournaments the euro is better blabla, nobody cares!!!
maybe a wonder will happen and the americans start to fight and play pool like they are able to, so we all would have a match and something to sweat about, nobody wants to see loosing the USA like this, and i say that as an europe!!
You do know that when the US was winning the Mosconi Cup, Europe's team was comprised of snooker players trying to play 9 ball vs the likes of Earl Strickland and Johnny Archer. Jimmy White, Steve Davis, and Ronnie O'Sullivan are supposed to lose playing 9 ball vs our best because they are snooker players.
Now that Europe has men who play rotation growing up they are dominating us. Europeans play a game that holds up better under pressure than our guys. They are just more solid fundamentally.
People like to say anyone can win a race to 5. If that is true, then why doesn't the US win more of them? You can blame rolls and make other excuses but those don't change anything.
I was disappointed in Bergman's comments on FB yesterday after the match.
He said "Mark looked like he had just won the Olympics after winning a race to 5. LOL. I wish I could gamble with him all day every day playing all games for the rest of my life." Now that is not an exact quote but close. I find it sad that someone with that much talent would belittle a competitor and the Mosconi Cup who played just as hard as he did.
I am not sure why US culture thinks the only thing that matters is gambling. That is only said when someone is losing.
I believe the talent is basically equal between US and Europe on paper but Europe handles pressure better and makes less mistakes when there is more pressure. In this format you get punished for every mistake because you don't have a longer race to make up for this mistakes.
Now that Europe has men who play rotation growing up they are dominating us. Europeans play a game that holds up better under pressure than our guys. They are just more solid fundamentally.
People like to say anyone can win a race to 5. If that is true, then why doesn't the US win more of them? You can blame rolls and make other excuses but those don't change anything.
I was disappointed in Bergman's comments on FB yesterday after the match.
He said "Mark looked like he had just won the Olympics after winning a race to 5. LOL. I wish I could gamble with him all day every day playing all games for the rest of my life." Now that is not an exact quote but close. I find it sad that someone with that much talent would belittle a competitor and the Mosconi Cup who played just as hard as he did.
I am not sure why US culture thinks the only thing that matters is gambling. That is only said when someone is losing.
I believe the talent is basically equal between US and Europe on paper but Europe handles pressure better and makes less mistakes when there is more pressure. In this format you get punished for every mistake because you don't have a longer race to make up for this mistakes.
Sorry JAM but this type of attitude is exactly why we get our nuts shot in year after year. This format hasn't changed very much if at all since inception so to say that we are 11-10 when we have had next to no success lately and then say well its because of the format is a joke. You can't talk about how good we used to be in this format and then say the format is garbage when we aren't having success. Yes its short races but its a race to 11 short races, I am sorry but the team that plays better is going to win more times than not. Look at the scores, its not like every match is going hill/hill, we are getting destroyed for the most part.
Our team and our captain have not adapted at all over the last decade. They do the same things over and over. For the most part there is no camaraderie amongst our team, at least when you compare it to the Europeans. For the life of me I don't understand why Shane is continually put out there in the first and last matches of the day. Every match matters but the first and last matches of the day seem to have more pressure and typically are "must win" for the USA. He has not done well in this spot at all, why continue to put him out there. Hes our best player so I get that you want him in these spots but if he has continually struggled why do it over and over. Change it up, put someone else out there and let Shane play his 2 matches in matches 2-4 and see if things change.
There are many reasons why we get beat in this year after year but using the format, shirt fouls, the loud crowd etc as excuses is just that, a sorry excuse. We need to adapt and play better. Playing in a race to 5 is totally different than playing longer races. You have to play almost every game as if its hill hill and I think our guys know that but they play so tight it makes it seem like they are scared to lose. If you look at the Europeans, especially the ones that thrive like Neils, they are always playing to win and not playing not to lose.
We are at the point right now where the failures of the past are causing everyone on Team USA to be so timid. I think if we were to have some success things would change but until then its going to be much the same. The only way we turn things around is if we change what we are doing, you can't continue to try and play the same way when its not working. Change the lineups around, put your best player in positions where he can succeed and I bet everything starts to turn around at that point. We still might not win but we would at least make things more competitive and get the monkey off our back so our guys play like they are capable of playing instead of the way they have been the last 10 years.
Our team and our captain have not adapted at all over the last decade. They do the same things over and over. For the most part there is no camaraderie amongst our team, at least when you compare it to the Europeans. For the life of me I don't understand why Shane is continually put out there in the first and last matches of the day. Every match matters but the first and last matches of the day seem to have more pressure and typically are "must win" for the USA. He has not done well in this spot at all, why continue to put him out there. Hes our best player so I get that you want him in these spots but if he has continually struggled why do it over and over. Change it up, put someone else out there and let Shane play his 2 matches in matches 2-4 and see if things change.
There are many reasons why we get beat in this year after year but using the format, shirt fouls, the loud crowd etc as excuses is just that, a sorry excuse. We need to adapt and play better. Playing in a race to 5 is totally different than playing longer races. You have to play almost every game as if its hill hill and I think our guys know that but they play so tight it makes it seem like they are scared to lose. If you look at the Europeans, especially the ones that thrive like Neils, they are always playing to win and not playing not to lose.
We are at the point right now where the failures of the past are causing everyone on Team USA to be so timid. I think if we were to have some success things would change but until then its going to be much the same. The only way we turn things around is if we change what we are doing, you can't continue to try and play the same way when its not working. Change the lineups around, put your best player in positions where he can succeed and I bet everything starts to turn around at that point. We still might not win but we would at least make things more competitive and get the monkey off our back so our guys play like they are capable of playing instead of the way they have been the last 10 years.