Pool Room in Warehouse Space!

336Robin

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
We've all seen a lot of Pool Rooms closing so in lieu of that, I'm thinking Pool is headed to Warehouse Space. Based on that belief how would you see this working out? How big should it be for a small/medium sized town of say 5000 or 10000 people? What kinds of things could you offer? Who would run it? What kind of hours? How would you get the word out? How much would it cost to do it? How would you heat and cool it? Who would you let in it? Who would you discourage from coming? How would you do that?

All of this is based on Warehouse Space pricing for a square foot of space. Could you even do something like that? A lot of the old Pool Rooms used to be on back streets, why not? Can you make it financially feasible?
 
You saw first hand what happened to Chandley's....... Rent was wayyyyy to high for a pool room.... Word is, too many high ranked road players were catered to in the beginning, thus running off decent players. Then the rent on all of those Diamond tables.... You have to sell a lot of food and drink just to pay rent... There is a place in Spartanburg, SC that hold lots of tourneys. Handicapped and not. I have never been there but going next weekend for the scotch doubles tournament. They are holding a huge touney there in March with several big players confirmed coming .... SVB, Morris, Archer, etc. Chandley's should have done this from the start. Place was way too nice not to hold big events. They had a lady's qualifying 10 ball event there a couple months ago and had about 10 ladies entered. Karen Corr being one of them.... Why so few? Nobody knew about it. They could have had 2 big players, lets say Archer and Earl come do a race to 50 for XXXX.00 and many folks would have come just to watch and spend money while there. Maybe even charge a $5 entry to watch. Stream it and charge a fee for that..... Several ways to make money for the pool room. I really was really pulling for them. Still am because I really like the place..... But from what I hear, it's not looking good....... You have to have good equipment, good location, and very low expenses. The catch is: If you start out small and have a good place people like to go, then you take the chance of being over crowded. Start too big and not many come, you go under..... Roll the dice.... RD's place is small, but I like shooting there.......
 
look at Corner Bank in Toronto (Jim Wyche's room). That's a converted warehouse with full bar and kitchen, and the place is simply amazing. Easily in my top 5 pool rooms, next to Gotham and Steinway. I'm not sure what Bullshooter's in Phoenix used to be (department store is my guess), but that place is enormous. Both Corner Bank and Bullshooter's are big enough to where they have almost any type of table you'd want to play on. Only exceptions are that Bullshooter's doesn't have a snooker table, and I don't think Corner Bank has any Gold Crowns or Valley BB's. Only diamond 9-footers and 8-footers.
 
It seems to me many Pool rooms fail because of 1 of 2 reasons.

  1. the owner is fulfilling his personal dream of owning his own "ultimate man-cave" and not really looking at it as a business.
  2. the owner is under the unfortunate delusion that catering (only) to "the serious players" is the way to go.

Even if that was the way to go, all serious players start out as rec players. Treating the rec players good is the gateway to more serious players.


In my area, a well known pool hall has cut the table numbers in half, gotten rid of the table tennis tables and used circa 50% of the interior space as a comedy club and/or nightclub space...and I hear it's working very well. I'm guessing that's the only way he can stay open.
 
captainjko said:
Not yet..... Down to 12 Diamond 9 foot tables and a few Valley 7 footers. They built a stage and dance floor... Trying to be a music venue now.................
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I was in town about a month ago and was shocked when I walked in. What happened to the beautiful room I saw on line? I guess a bad business plan, high rent, probably posts of things.

Lacy's Cue in the New Orleans area is having similar problems. Twelve 9' diamonds, a ten footer, 15 bar box smart tables. Super nice room. Almost no players go there except for the big 1P tournaments and maybe some APA or other bar box tournaments. It's non smoking and I love it there but it's out of the way. I've heard some people say they don't like the owner. It's a big room and I'm sure the rent is way to high. I hope they survive. Myself and another player or two will drive past Buffaloes so we don't have to indure the horrible stink and fade all the loud mouths.

I can say Buffalo has always supported the players and many tournaments. He gets all the road players thru there and that combination just gets it done.
 
I know a pool hall owner here in NC that told me Chandley's was never going to survive. Looks like he was right again. He's outlasted many others in the past as well. Sad but it is what it is.
 
This thread....

I'm not going to talk about Chandleys in this thread. I suffice to say this much Pool doesn't and cant pay the rent no matter what it is, pretty much where ever it is not even when its a small, small place. At this point I'm wondering if there is any business model that would work if its set up for Pool and that's sort of what this thread is about. The only thing that I see working for Pool room only not bar is warehouse space and not much of it, a few tables and reasonable rates. Do the math on some of that and see what it would actually take for Pool to hold its own. Then you can talk about Pool places working out. So far regardless of the circumstances I havent seen Pool really work out according the pool paying crowd.
 
It's a real shame that the "post Hustler" boom in interest failed. As a kid in the 60's I could walk to 2 bowling alleys. It also wasn't uncommon to double date and bowl a few games, then visit the pool tables.

Magnificent rooms. One, a Brunswick facility, had all Anniversaries, and the AMF bowling center had dozens of wanna be AMF "gold crowns".

1960s_20Cue_20_20Cushion_20-_20Glenside_20Pennsylvania_1_.jpg

thumb_Brunswick_Zone_XL_-_Lakeville_Lakeville_1_adaptiveResize_180_180.jpg
 
336Robin said:
We've all seen a lot of Pool Rooms closing so in lieu of that, I'm thinking Pool is headed to Warehouse Space. Based on that belief how would you see this working out? How big should it be for a small/medium sized town of say 5000 or 10000 people? What kinds of things could you offer? Who would run it? What kind of hours? How would you get the word out? How much would it cost to do it? How would you heat and cool it? Who would you let in it? Who would you discourage from coming? How would you do that?

All of this is based on Warehouse Space pricing for a square foot of space. Could you even do something like that? A lot of the old Pool Rooms used to be on back streets, why not? Can you make it financially feasible?
Click to expand...


Robin, your observation and point(s) are well taken. Over the years there were several times when I've seriously looked into opening a room in my general region. Forget the zoning challenges for a moment (strip clubs are easier to open than pool halls in many areas).

With commercial, store-front rents of anywhere from $12 to $22/sq ft and a triple net type of lease, I don't see how any pool room can make it.. I posed the Main St. vs. Warehouse question here on AZB some time ago and every owner said the same thing: Going to a pool room is not an impulsive, opportunistic proposition...it's an intentional, destination location. With warehouse space anywhere from $1 to $10 per sq ft, the answer is obvious. The only variable is the cost of the build out.

This is where the zoning issue removes all questions. In my area and in the area where I'm from in NYS, unless you're very well connected in the area where you wish to open, you're simply not going to get a zoning variance to open a pool room in an area that's not already specifically zoned for it.

With typical commercial area rents that are either cost prohibitive and/or zoning being a nightmare in all but warehouse and industrial areas, I don't see how pool rooms have any place left to go but to the warehouse model. In my area, many warehouse & industrial type real estate parks have multiple recreational businesses such as trampoline parks, health clubs, karate, etc.
 
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Zoning, fire codes, and other such things would have to be addressed.

It might not be nearly as cheap as you think.

But it could be done.





.
 
My point here is this....

My point is this. When you arrive at a dollar amount to get a room in. Lets say go bare bones. Tables a counter/bar Cooler for drinks a place to sit, chairs etc. Lets say you put a room in with used equipment, some house cues and a lathe maybe and you get into it and have $30k invested.

Now you have to make rent. Not to mention you're $30k in hole starting out.

If you're paying rent and a loan can you do that on 8 used tables, some house cues and your single rates not over $3.50 because face it.....people won't pay $4 a hour to play pool not in my state. They wont. They come when its free or during discount time. So you make cheap enough and stick to your guns and let the freeloaders go elsewhere. Maybe you sell some pool packages. This way if people are willing to drop $12 when they visit your place they get a value for it.

Can you make the rent? How much time do you have to sell? and Do you even have the players in your local area to do it?


DJSTEVEZ said:
Robin, your observation and point(s) are well taken. Over the years there were several times when I've seriously looked into opening a room in my general region. Forget the zoning challenges for a moment (strip clubs are easier to open than pool halls in many areas).

With commercial, store-front rents of anywhere from $12 to $22/sq ft and a triple net type of lease, I don't see how any pool room can make it.. I posed the Main St. vs. Warehouse question here on AZB some time ago and every owner said the same thing: Going to a pool room is not an impulsive, opportunistic proposition...it's an intentional, destination location. With warehouse space anywhere from $1 to $10 per sq ft, the answer is obvious. The only variable is the cost of the build out.

This is where the zoning issue removes all questions. In my area and in the area where I'm from in NYS, unless you're very well connected in the area where you wish to open, you're simply not going to get a zoning variance to open a pool room in an area that's not already specifically zoned for it.

With typical commercial area rents that are either cost prohibitive and/or zoning being a nightmare in all but warehouse and industrial areas, I don't see how pool rooms have any place left to go but to the warehouse model. In my area, many warehouse & industrial type real estate parks have multiple recreational businesses such as trampoline parks, health clubs, karate, etc.
Click to expand...

Chopdoc said:
Zoning, fire codes, and other such things would have to be addressed.

It might not be nearly as cheap as you think.

But it could be done.





.
Click to expand...
 
I could have saved them a TON on the light purchase of bat, but then my led panels CONTINUE to save you money on output and need of air conditioning
 
Do the math!

336Robin said:
My point is this. When you arrive at a dollar amount to get a room in. Lets say go bare bones. Tables a counter/bar Cooler for drinks a place to sit, chairs etc. Lets say you put a room in with used equipment, some house cues and a lathe maybe and you get into it and have $30k invested.

Now you have to make rent. Not to mention you're $30k in hole starting out.

If you're paying rent and a loan can you do that on 8 used tables, some house cues and your single rates not over $3.50 because face it.....people won't pay $4 a hour to play pool not in my state. They wont. They come when its free or during discount time. So you make cheap enough and stick to your guns and let the freeloaders go elsewhere. Maybe you sell some pool packages. This way if people are willing to drop $12 when they visit your place they get a value for it.

Can you make the rent? How much time do you have to sell? and Do you even have the players in your local area to do it?
Click to expand...

If you do the math on these bare bones figures, how does that come up? You might see a very important correlation between Pool Time, its possibilities and its place in the world of business.
 
Set up vegetable production on the roof.
Add a solar collection array and use only 12v LED lighting everywhere.
Add a few small wind generators
Rainwater collection/recycling for vegetable production.

In a large enough warehouse, an indoor bike track or skating path could be added.
bocce courts, putting greens.

on sundays you can host drone racing and belt sander drag races :D
 
In my area, pool is typically >$10/hr except for one spot where it's $6 (ironically the best room in town).
 
Come to Texas.

336Robin said:
If you do the math on these bare bones figures, how does that come up? You might see a very important correlation between Pool Time, its possibilities and its place in the world of business.
Click to expand...

5 new Pool halls opening in Houston this month, three are very small with a few bar tables and 2 b' tables, but two of them will have 15 - 20 tables with 4 Gold Crowns.

Pool is alive and well in Texas, maybe its the cheap rent or the crazy population growth which is none stop in Houston, San Antonio, Austin and Dallas or the fact that anybody can get a liquor license.

And that's the real key to owning a good Pool Hall, cheap liquor and eatable food, any food. There are a number of Pool Halls in Houston doing $20,000-$35,000 a month in liquor sales, they don't care about the Pool revenue, its a throw in.

Sale drinks and survive, its simple.
 
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