The Jump Shot

King T said:
Zero effect on the slate, none. And even the effect on the cloth is irrelevant compared to the damage that breaking does.

Most table, Gold Crown, Connolly, Diamond all use 2'' slate, your shaft aint effecting that at all.
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2inch slate on diamonds and goldcrowns? Really? I had no idea modern pool tables used it thought it was all 1inch,never seen one advertised with 2inch just 1

My old gc 2 had one inch

It's not the shaft it's the ball slamming back down either on another ball or missing and hitting the slate
 
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JC said:
I presented a quite rational argument and you are still pretending I have not.

So where oh where is this heading? Straight to the gutter because I don't tolerate illogical minds well. Sorry but I'm not going to play this game.

And yes, I jump pretty sporty.

JC
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JC, no offense, but you did NOT provide a rational argument. You provided your opinion. There is nothing wrong with that, until you claim the opposite. One of my majors was philosophy, and part of that was a very detailed and in depth study of logic and reasoning. With all due respect, you are mistaken here.

The only argument you made was "jump cues should be banned because they damage the equipment." The rest was simply your own opinion on the matter. However, you "argument" doesn't really hold up well to scrutiny. Unless of course you also believe that we should eliminate the break shot, which is far more damaging to the cloth and occurs in every single game.

If you are logical like you say, is there any reason why you wouldn't be willing to simply copy and paste your "quite rational argument"? That would help the conversation. (I can think of a few reasons why you would not do this ;-)

Seriously though, no need to get offended. If I touched a sore spot for you, I apologize. For me, I enjoy when someone offers me corrections on something I said, or attempts to. If someone says my claims are illogical, I am almost always happy to hear their reasoning, and defend the logic of my claims. It is a great way to build knowledge. It is the basis for the scientific method.

I hope you want to build knowledge. Where this is heading rests with you.

KMRUNOUT
 
Ralph Kramden said:
Agree... Maybe golf should have kick shots off trees. :D

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Kick shots off tress are totally legal in the world of golf; if you choose to play that shot, go ahead! :smile:

I personally don't jump balls, I either kick or GLADLY defer a jump shot to the opponent (if he/she pushes to such position).

If anyone wants to jump balls against me, I'm perfectly fine with it.
I look at jump shots as simply direct "kick" shots.
A player still doesn't know what the hell is going to happen on a jump shot..

Although I detest the jump shot for all the reasons stated already, I say,
go ahead and jump.
However, if our game evolves so that we go from slate-under-the-felt
to a semi-firm rubber material-under-the-felt, then I'm totally quitting the game.:thumbup:
 
I like my jump cue, I'm pretty good with it. I don't really have a problem with jumping being part of the game but I'd be fine if it was banned also. I agree that kicking takes more skill and is a more true expression of the game. Don't care too much either way but as long as it's legal I'll be carrying my jump cue and am ready to use it.
 
pool

Jumping balls should not be allowed period but that's only my opinion.
 

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Jump cues aren't going anywhere. If they were legislated out of the game when they were invented it may have been possible, but you can't put the genie back in the bottle so it's a moot point.
 
JC said:
Should be put to bed once and for all. Stack all those silly little short cues in a pile and burn them. It's hard on equipment and a cancer on the beautiful 2 dimensional game of pool. The thing is indefensible by rational thinkers. But since it's legal and it's relatively easy a player is forced to have it or be cheated by those who do. Enough is enough will someone with some authority please step up and say so?

And that is all.

JC
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I don't understand. With a jump shot you have to do everything you would need to do in a non-jump shot PLUS figure out trajectory angle. Seems to me that it's actually HARDER than regular shots.

Don't believe me?

Well we can bet on it and I will give you 2-1 on the money. I shoot straight in shots and you jump the same shot. Just kidding I don't want to bet but I think you get the point.

Or is it another kick shots vs. jump shot debate? Both are different parts of the game. Think jumping is easier than kicking? Take the diamonds off the table then and banish all mention of any kicking systems. Because those things make kicking way easier. So easy that an APA2 can literally learn to kick accurately in ten minutes. In fact Dr. Cue Tom Rossmann teaches kicking in five minutes in free youtube videos.

Or is it just a "jump cues make it too easy" type of thing? Well no jump cue makes a ball jump by itself. Just like a chalked tip doesn't spin the ball by itself. But without chalk you have no change to apply spin consistently.

Chalk makes spin possible, it doesn't actually take the shot. Jump cues make jump shots possible, they don't take the shot.

Just as chalk widened the amount of possible shots immensely so do modern jump cues. No amount of chalk, no type of chalk will turn me into Mike Massey and give me the ability to make the ball dance like him. All it does is give me the POSSIBILITY to do what he does IF I can develop the ability.

There is nothing wrong with jump cues or jump shots in the game of pool. They are tough and exciting shots that REQUIRE a certain level of skill to be actually useful to the shooter. Even with a jump cue.

And lastly, to those who say jumping is fine but with a full cue.... WHY? If that then make everyone play with the same cue/tip/chalk/weight. Because not all full cues jump the same just as they don't all play the same. So a dedicated jump cue is as much of an equalizer as chalk is. It's a tool that works great for the purpose and gives no player an advantage over any other player. The tech is available to every player to learn to use it to whatever degree their own dedication takes them to.
 
JC said:
Should be put to bed once and for all. Stack all those silly little short cues in a pile and burn them. It's hard on equipment and a cancer on the beautiful 2 dimensional game of pool. The thing is indefensible by rational thinkers. But since it's legal and it's relatively easy a player is forced to have it or be cheated by those who do. Enough is enough will someone with some authority please step up and say so?

And that is all.

JC
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Let's not confuse a jump shot with jump cues. I do enjoy a good jump shot, done with a proper cue. Get rid of jump cues, keep the jump shot. One thing that does have to be noted, LD shafts are horrible for jumping. So, use your full break cue to jump with, with a standard tip.

Getting rid of the super hard break tips would be a step in the right direction also. Hard leather tip, yea, plastic, no.

And I know JB is for the jump cue, but it's a dead argument I think. A jump cue makes a jump shot way too easy to execute and makes jump shots that should not be jumpable at all, jumpable. Yes it's hard to make a ball with a jump shot, same as a kick, but it's way easier to jump with a jump cue just to get a hit, and any pro player can make a ball close to the pocket on a jump shot. And any amateur can learn to jump with a short cue in 3 minutes. I always like to use examples, at about 13 my son got a jump cue. His was able to clear a full ball his second attempt. The jump cue is doing to pool what TV has started and the internet with all the brainless videos and smartphones are finishing, making the population a bunch of drooling apes without skills.
 
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Jumping does not harm the slate. Nor does it harm the cloth.

I did thousands of jump shots for many years when I was selling Bunjee Jumper jump cues.

I used to drive the tip into the cloth to show people that the tip does not hurt the cloth. With a properly done jump shot the tip does not even hit the cloth.
 
Let's ban chalk. It makes the cue ball spinnable when it shouldn't be spinnable. Pool was pure before chalk was added to the game.
 
StraightPoolIU said:
Jump cues aren't going anywhere. If they were legislated out of the game when they were invented it may have been possible, but you can't put the genie back in the bottle so it's a moot point.
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And I am sure there were some players who hated losing to the guy who showed up with John Carr's Magical Twisting Powder.
 
JB Cases said:
Let's ban chalk. It makes the cue ball spinnable when it shouldn't be spinnable. Pool was pure before chalk was added to the game.
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I agree with you John !

Jump shots are part of the game.... and it does not hurt the table/cloth...

Before recovering a table one time I attempted to tear the cloth with a cue just to see how much force it requires. ....both by simulating a break shot but driving the tip into the cloth hard and by jamming a cue into the cloth simulating a jump... couldn't get more than a bunch of drag lines.. (no tears) and a few 'spots' ...

I have seen knicks in cloth from guys dragging their watches...or womens diamond rings tho.... strangely nobody is asking to ban their wifes engagement rings during a game tho....lol:wink:
 
JB Cases said:
Jumping does not harm the slate. Nor does it harm the cloth.

I did thousands of jump shots for many years when I was selling Bunjee Jumper jump cues.

I used to drive the tip into the cloth to show people that the tip does not hurt the cloth. With a properly done jump shot the tip does not even hit the cloth.
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Never trust a used cue salesman;)

JC
 
If pool is to survive then it must be open to accommodate as many people as reasonably possible. These people should have a place (at a price, of course) to practice.

If room owners do not allow the practice of jump cues, the it puts a premium on one owning his own table; i.e. if one wishes to be competitive.

Drive the competitiveness out of pool and where does that lead us?
That is a question whose answer I can only surmise.
Of course rule changes could occur to "level" the field.

Perhaps we should take a survey of how many on the AZBilliards forum have access to "OK to Jump" table".
Dave
 
JB Cases said:
Let's ban chalk. It makes the cue ball spinnable when it shouldn't be spinnable. Pool was pure before chalk was added to the game.
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what do you mean chalk makes spin possible? i thought it was physics

i must not have the same idea of spin as you do

i can take an unchalked tip and apply maximum english, and itll spin
 
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beneath_the_sur said:
what do you mean chalk makes spin possible? i thought it was physics

i must not have the same idea of spin as you do

i can take an unchalked tip and apply maximum english, and itll spin
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Yes, in the game of billiards as we know it the substance known as chalk is what makes sidespin practically possible. Without chalk applying sidespin to any practically useful and consistent degree is nearly impossible at least according to the way the modern game is played.

However if you would like to prove me wrong then I will be happy to lose $1000 playing you a race to 10 in 9 ball where you play with an unchalked leather tip from any of the well known brands and I will play with the same brand of leather tip and use the chalk of my choice.

I am fairly sure that my meaning was understood. What you may not know is that is is POSSIBLE to execute full ball jump shots with regular length cues just not as probable as when one is using a cue engineered for the jump shot just as chalk is engineered for the application of sidespin.
 
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