New MC cup captain team USA

[sjm]

I don't think there is anyone on this forum that is more "USA, ALL THE WAY" than I am.

In fact, I've been beaten down on this forum because of my stance on Made in USA when it comes to pool.

With all of that said, my opinion is that we have a whole year ahead of us before the Cup. I see many American sports teams and athletes being coached by non-Americans in the world. This is nothing new. The reason for them choosing the non-American is because they want to gain their wisdom on winning, plain and simple.

Actually, IT IS 100% NEW, because, barring the completely unexpected, this coach will not be in America performing his coaching duties and preparing his team until very late in the year. There is no precedent of which I know for a coach training a team from across an ocean.

Were he living in America and working hand in hand with the top American prospects for the Mosconi team, things would be very different. Under such circumstances,, we all know that Johann has the ability and the credentials to start bridging the gap between Europe and the USA. As the last four cups have been 11-2, 11-5, 11-7 and 11-3, (Europe 44-17, winning approximately 70% of the matches), the gap is indisputably large.

I really want to be as optimistic as you about this appointment, but can't convince myself that an absentee coach is going to raise Team USA from the ashes.

I'll cheer just as hard as you during the next Mosconi, and as I have in the past, I will offer a cash contribution to the training effort if one is solicited from me by our new coach, but this move seems very strange to me.

As you suggest, you may be the most ardent of all American pool fans, and I really want to be wrong in my assessment of things, but the logic in this appointment is really hard to identify.

 

[Celtic]

Kind of surprised you are defending this move Jam.

With this move Matchroom has effectively stated that there is no American who can make the American team competitive, so they are sending a European over to help the poor helpless Americans out.

This was a pretty blunt slap to the face of American pride by matchroom. It is one thing to admit pool in America is not what it once was, but it is a completely diffrrent thing when Europe steps in and offers the Americans something that amounts to nothing less than pool charity.

There is no doubt that this move is disrespectful to America, the potential coaches, the players, and the fans.

 

[JD_Hogg]

Kind of surprised you are defending this move Jam.

With this move Matchroom has effectively stated that there is no American who can make the American team competitive, so they are sending a European over to help the poor helpless Americans out.

This was a pretty blunt slap to the face of American pride by matchroom. It is one thing to admit pool in America is not what it once was, but it is a completely diffrrent thing when Europe steps in and offers the Americans something that amounts to nothing less than pool charity.

There is no doubt that this move is disrespectful to America, the potential coaches, the players, and the fans.

so in every other sport where there is a coach from another country its a slap in the face to said country? give your head a shake

you guys are too sensitive. we all live on the same planet

Canada's soccer team is coached by an english dude.. they played England, beat them. No one called him a traitor and all of Canada was happy.

 

[sjm]

so in every other sport where there is a coach from another country its a slap in the face to said country? give your head a shake

you guys are too sensitive. we all live on the same planet

Canada's soccer team is coached by an english dude.. they played England, beat them. No one called him a traitor and all of Canada was happy.

It is hard to fathom that people continue to use this argument.

Has an absentee coach ever coached a team to victory? That is what Johann will be.

Do you think Klinsman coached Team USA from Germany? Do you think Karolyi coached US gymnastics without moving to America? Americans have time and time again embraced foreign coaches as long as they do the job in America.

In a recent poll, Carlo Ancelotti, once of Real Madrid and now of Bayern Munich was rated as the world's greatest football/soccer coach, but I wouldn't want him to coach Team USA in football/soccer if he planned to do the job from Europe.

 

[fishless]

It is hard to fathom that people continue to use this argument.

Has an absentee coach ever coached a team to victory? That is what Johann will be.

Do you think Klinsman coached Team USA from Germany? Do you think Karolyi coached US gymnastics without moving to America? Americans have time and time again embraced foreign coaches as long as they do the job in America.

In a recent poll, Carlo Ancelotti, once of Real Madrid and now of Bayern Munich was rated as the world's greatest football/soccer coach, but I wouldn't want him to coach Team USA in football/soccer if he planned to do the job from Europe.

Requesting a foreign coach opposed to having one forced upon you is also a factor in my opinion.

 

[Celtic]

so in every other sport where there is a coach from another country its a slap in the face to said country? give your head a shake

The Mosconi Cup is a competition between only Europe and America. Is is purposely meant to be a challenge between the two. It is not akin to the Olympics, if you eant a parallel it would be the Ryder Cup.

Second, Matchroom is European, the Mosconi Cup is owned by, and controlled by European interests. It is not a sporting event controlled by an unbiased international organization. This is why the Europeans can actually make this move with little to no input from America.

Third unlike an Olympic event like figure skating where the coach is generally behind the scenes and rarely even mentioned the Mosconi Cup has always treated the oaches as important parts of the team and comments on them constantly and interviews them throughout the event, they are not behind the scenes as in many other sports, instead they are at the forefront and as such when the world looks on it will be "very" clear that Europe gelt that America could not do things on their own and needed help from the very people they are supposed to be competing against.

 

[sjm]

The Mosconi Cup is a competition between only Europe and America. Is is purposely meant to be a challenge between the two. It is not akin to the Olympics, if you eant a parallel it would be the Ryder Cup.

Second, Matchroom is European, the Mosconi Cup is owned by, and controlled by European interests. It is not a sporting event controlled by an unbiased international organization. This is why the Europeans can actually make this move with little to no input from America.

Third unlike an Olympic event like figure skating where the coach is generally behind the scenes and rarely even mentioned the Mosconi Cup has always treated the oaches as important parts of the team and comments on them constantly and interviews them throughout the event, they are not behind the scenes as in many other sports, instead they are at the forefront and as such when the world looks on it will be "very" clear that Europe gelt that America could not do things on their own and needed help from the very people they are supposed to be competing against.

As you suggest, Matchroom has the authority to make this shocking move.

Second, they need not fear any retaliation by American players, as such action by American players would likely spell the end of the Mosconi Cup, in which losers are paid more money than they'd win by winning some super-tough titles like Turning Stone.

Third, perhaps my assumption that they are trying to make the event more competitive is wrong. Maybe they just feel that naming Johann, an understandably credible figure in the game, will make it easier to market this event to their fans, so few of which are American, as this event is not televised in the US.

 

[JoeyA]

USA Mosconi Cup Team

One American player claims that the problem with Team USA is Unity and Trust.

While Unity & Trust are important, if the GAP between the two teams in MECHANICS & SKILL is not addressed, we are guaranteed to remain in the rut we have been in for the last ten or so Mosconi Cups.

Personally, I don't believe there is a large gap in Skill or Mechanics but there is a GAP that needs to be addressed. American players will have to put their pride and ego on a shelf and listen to this man in order to have a different outcome than they have had the last several years.

Every time a better player or coach has shown me how to play a shot a different and better way, I have improved my skill level.

If our already highly talented American players take Johan's coaching seriously, I do believe an important corner can be turned and I think far easier than most seem to think. It will be up to the American players to recognize their weaknesses and make them their strengths.

To the patriotic Americans who are repulsed about a European coaching an American Team, put that American pride on the shelf for the moment and welcome Johan with open arms.

I do hope that Johan works on their mental game. ALL American Mosconi Cup players must learn how to deal with the raucous crowd because that is hurting their game in some cases.

WELCOME JOHAN RUYSINK!

Sincerely,

JoeyA

Johann is a very good friend so I am torn with this decision. Unquestionably he is the best man for the job - perhaps the only one. But the question is is this the right job for the man. WHICH JOB?
He needs to be clear what his responsibilities are. Mark Wilson foundered on the back of multi tasking because he had a lot of other logistics to worry about. Season long qualifiers prevented him from identifying the composition of his team until a couple of weeks before the event.
So he had no chance to address the glaring problem of the skill gap between US and European players. HOW WILL THIS BE ANY DIFFERENT FOR jOHANN?

Perhaps the short term solution is to use this years rankings to determine who is eligible to play in 2018. Then he could work on their individual weaknesses.
Then he would need a team for 2017 - Enter Mika Immonen, Thorsten Hohmann. Darren Appleton, Jayson Shaw (all compulsary drafted by Mr Trump because he promised to Make America Winners Again) and SVB.
Because Shane is a folk hero he would remain for 2018 but the other four could test the skills of the NEW IMPROVED 2017 US citizens qualifiers in a playoff.

Once you have bitten the bullet of Internationalism then it becomes clear that if you want to become World Class you have to mix and learn from World Class.

Unless Johann can get to the seat of the problem at an early stage then I fear that his spotless credentials may be sullied

 

[sjm]

One American player claims that the problem with Team USA is Unity and Trust.

Sorry, Joey, but .....

When you win four singles matches in four years (based on my memory -- I didn't look it up), it's not about unity and trust, it's about poor play. It's a lot noisier in American poolrooms than it is in European poolrooms, more than a few of which I've played in. The noise should be to America's advantage. The skills gap must be bridged.

You are not incorrect in suggesting that Johann can help a little with mental game in the days leading up to the cup, but unless you know something that I don't know, on what are you basing the assumption that Johann will be putting in a lot of time schooling our players in skills development this coming year? I think it's highly unlikely, and there's no evidence that he's more skilled at it than Mark Wilson was.

That aside, though dissension may rule this particular moment, I agree that we must support our new coach this year to the greatest extent we can, but if he will coach from the other side of the Atlantic, we won't have the opportunity to do so and the players will have limited opportunity to learn from him.

I'll join you in saying "Welcome Johann."

 

[pro9dg]

One American player claims that the problem with Team USA is Unity and Trust.

While Unity & Trust are important, if the GAP between the two teams in MECHANICS & SKILL is not addressed, we are guaranteed to remain in the rut we have been in for the last ten or so Mosconi Cups.

Personally, I don't believe there is a large gap in Skill or Mechanics but there is a GAP that needs to be addressed. American players will have to put their pride and ego on a shelf and listen to this man in order to have a different outcome than they have had the last several years.

Every time a better player or coach has shown me how to play a shot a different and better way, I have improved my skill level.

If our already highly talented American players take Johan's coaching seriously, I do believe an important corner can be turned and I think far easier than most seem to think. It will be up to the American players to recognize their weaknesses and make them their strengths.

To the patriotic Americans who are repulsed about a European coaching an American Team, put that American pride on the shelf for the moment and welcome Johan with open arms.

I do hope that Johan works on their mental game. ALL American Mosconi Cup players must learn how to deal with the raucous crowd because that is hurting their game in some cases.

[

]

Some good insight there Joey. The US recent performances have shown the need for a radical solution and there is simply nobody in the USA who could apply it. That is not to say that there are no good coaches in the States. That would be patently untrue but there is not one capable of instituting a program that will stop players in their tracks and make them listen. Right now Johann is the only one who can make this happen. Worthy individuals as they are Archer, Wiley and Varner have all failed in recent years. Jeremy Jones was touted as a candidate as was Tony Robles. Jay Helfert, well don't even go there.
If you want to represent your country in the Mosconi Cup then you must submit yourself to the rigorous examination that Johann will put you under. Otherwise you will remain a born loser. If any player is foolish enough to believe there is any other way to go then they should consider a different career path.
This might not be Johann's greatest decision to take on such a task because there is not one plater who has the ferociousness of Appleton, the brashness of Jayson Shaw, the doggedness of Mark Gray, the gusto of Niels Feijen or the tenacity of Albin Ouschen. But he is your ONLY hope and no amount of xenophobia will dilute his resolve. So all you haters had better get use to it.

 

[pro9dg]

sorry, joey, but .....

When you win four singles matches in four years (based on my memory -- i didn't look it up), it's not about unity and trust, it's about poor play. It's a lot noisier in american poolrooms than it is in european poolrooms, more than a few of which i've played in. The noise should be to america's advantage. The skills gap must be bridged.

You are not incorrect in suggesting that johann can help a little with mental game in the days leading up to the cup, but unless you know something that i don't know, on what are you basing the assumption that johann will be putting in a lot of time schooling our players in skills development this coming year? I think it's highly unlikely, and there's no evidence that he's more skilled at it than mark wilson was.

That aside, though dissension may rule this particular moment, i agree that we must support our new coach this year to the greatest extent we can, but if he will coach from the other side of the atlantic, we won't have the opportunity to do so and the players will have limited opportunity to learn from him.

I'll join you in saying "welcome johann."

no worries! They will all have to go to his gulag in russia where he is currently working

 

[sjm]

]This might not be Johann's greatest decision to take on such a task because there is not one plater who has the ferociousness of Appleton, the brashness of Jayson Shaw, the doggedness of Mark Gray, the gusto of Niels Feijen or the tenacity of Albin Ouschen. But he is your ONLY hope and no amount of xenophobia will dilute his resolve. So all you haters had better get use to it.

The only hope? This is an early candidate for the most clueless post of 2017.

 

[jay helfert]

]

Some good insight there Joey. The US recent performances have shown the need for a radical solution and there is simply nobody in the USA who could apply it. That is not to say that there are no good coaches in the States. That would be patently untrue but there is not one capable of instituting a program that will stop players in their tracks and make them listen. Right now Johann is the only one who can make this happen. Worthy individuals as they are Archer, Wiley and Varner have all failed in recent years. Jeremy Jones was touted as a candidate as was Tony Robles. Jay Helfert, well don't even go there.
If you want to represent your country in the Mosconi Cup then you must submit yourself to the rigorous examination that Johann will put you under. Otherwise you will remain a born loser. If any player is foolish enough to believe there is any other way to go then they should consider a different career path.
This might not be Johann's greatest decision to take on such a task because there is not one plater who has the ferociousness of Appleton, the brashness of Jayson Shaw, the doggedness of Mark Gray, the gusto of Niels Feijen or the tenacity of Albin Ouschen. But he is your ONLY hope and no amount of xenophobia will dilute his resolve. So all you haters had better get use to it.

Now I know how we can win the MC. Just make you the captain for Team Europe! Why didn't Matchroom think of that?

 

[BJTyler]

]

Some good insight there Joey. The US recent performances have shown the need for a radical solution and there is simply nobody in the USA who could apply it. That is not to say that there are no good coaches in the States. That would be patently untrue but there is not one capable of instituting a program that will stop players in their tracks and make them listen. Right now Johann is the only one who can make this happen. Worthy individuals as they are Archer, Wiley and Varner have all failed in recent years. Jeremy Jones was touted as a candidate as was Tony Robles. Jay Helfert, well don't even go there.
If you want to represent your country in the Mosconi Cup then you must submit yourself to the rigorous examination that Johann will put you under. Otherwise you will remain a born loser. If any player is foolish enough to believe there is any other way to go then they should consider a different career path.
This might not be Johann's greatest decision to take on such a task because there is not one plater who has the ferociousness of Appleton, the brashness of Jayson Shaw, the doggedness of Mark Gray, the gusto of Niels Feijen or the tenacity of Albin Ouschen. But he is your ONLY hope and no amount of xenophobia will dilute his resolve. So all you haters had better get use to it.

What an imperious load of ignorant horseshit.

 

[Alex Kanapilly]

When i created this thread i never thought that there could be such hostility against johann being appointed as US captain. I know i will get LOTS of flak from you guys but you are bunch of narrowminded egoistic ignorant crybabies who think that "america is simple the best". I will burst that bubble for you - in pool america is NOT the best..not anymore and it is getting worse. Except SVB you have no other world class player...period! And you are willing to hate Johann as US captain while he is one of the very few guys on the planet who has the ABILITY to give your guys at least a breathing chance at MC?!? Really???

I don't agree with your assessment of the situation at all. This is an "international" competition between one country and a continent of comparable population.

You can't put a captain in place that's from the opposing team's territory and expect the US to be OK with that. We need an American captain for this to be a legitimate competition between the US and Europe. The captain is an important figure in this competition, I mean he picks the order, has a say in who playes, etc.

This is ridiculous. It's got nothing to do with being a crybaby. The whole team, including the captain, should be from the country/continent in question, period.

I mean, it would be like if Trump were elected to the highest office in the land with the assistance of a hostile foreign country or something! Oh wait...:smile:

Seriously, we should just abandon this event altogether if we can't find someone from the US to be the captain. It's got nothing to do with Johan's credentials in any way, I'm sure he's fantastic at what he does.

 

[JoeyA]

No problem Stu,

You must have just glanced at my post or maybe I didn't write it clearly enough. We're on the same page, Unity & Trust are important but that's not what the problem is. It was another American pool player who said it was about Unity & Trust, not me.

Where we disagree is about whether Johan can be effective for the USA Mosconi Cup Team LONG DISTANCE. I think he can utilize some of the tools of the digital age and make valuable contributions. Also, I don't know where it is said that Johan won't be coming to the U.S.A. to help train the American Team.

As far as how much time Johan will be putting in to "schooling our players" I don't think it will require that much time. There are not that many areas that our players have to "schooled on". I don't really like that phrase "schooled" as it sounds slightly condescending.

I think that the areas where each of our American players need improvement can be easily recognized and addressed simply by looking at the video of their play. I'm sure Johan will be doing a lot of that. It will be up to the players whether they take what Johan has to share to heart or just continue on their merry way.

I also believe that the Mosconi Cup requires a different mindset than traditional American tournament play and it is obvious that the Europeans have a different mindset and perhaps Johan can help our players to see precisely that.

Finally, I don't believe that there is that much difference in the level of play between our Team and theirs DESPITE them giving us repeated spankings in this event. An "outsider" like Johan is he might exactly be what Team USA needs and I am more confident than ever that the right choice has been made.

Another example of small differences between European players and American players AND HOW THEY CAN BE FIXED QUICKLY: In a recent pool event (not the Mosconi Cup), one of our own Mosconi Cup players was having trouble making balls consistently UNTIL A EUROPEAN PLAYER TOLD HIM WHAT THE PROBLEM WAS. The very next match with the QUICK FIX in place, the TOP player went back to running balls consistently. Sometimes, it is little things that straighten players out IF THEY ARE WILLING TO LISTEN.

I have faith in our American players IF THEY ARE WILLING TO PUT THEIR EGOS ON THE SHELF and listen to the incoming coach. They are very talented players who do just a few things a little less consistently than the Europeans and I believe that can be addressed and improved IF THEY ARE WILLING TO ADMIT THEIR DEFIIENCIES AND WORK TO MAKE THEM THEIR STRENGTHS.

JoeyA

Sorry, Joey, but .....

When you win four singles matches in four years (based on my memory -- I didn't look it up), it's not about unity and trust, it's about poor play. It's a lot noisier in American poolrooms than it is in European poolrooms, more than a few of which I've played in. The noise should be to America's advantage. The skills gap must be bridged.

You are not incorrect in suggesting that Johann can help a little with mental game in the days leading up to the cup, but unless you know something that I don't know, on what are you basing the assumption that Johann will be putting in a lot of time schooling our players in skills development this coming year? I think it's highly unlikely, and there's no evidence that he's more skilled at it than Mark Wilson was.

That aside, though dissension may rule this particular moment, I agree that we must support our new coach this year to the greatest extent we can, but if he will coach from the other side of the Atlantic, we won't have the opportunity to do so and the players will have limited opportunity to learn from him.

I'll join you in saying "Welcome Johann."

 

[JoeyA]

No Alex.

It is more like Trump becoming President of the United States and finding help by having many jobs in Washington filled by people who at one time or another were considered "the competition".

JoeyA

I don't agree with your assessment of the situation at all. This is an "international" competition between one country and a continent of comparable population.

You can't put a coach in place that's from the opposing team's territory and expect the US to be OK with that. We need an American coach for this to be a legitimate competition between the US and Europe. The coach is an important figure in this competition, I mean he picks the order, has a say in who playes, etc.

This is ridiculous. It's got nothing to do with being a crybaby. The whole team, including the coach, should be from the country/continent in question, period.

I mean, it would be like if Trump were elected to the highest office in the land with the assistance of a hostile foreign country or something! Oh wait...:smile:

Seriously, we should just abandon this event altogether if we can't find someone from the US to be the coach. It's got nothing to do with Johan's credentials in any way, I'm sure he's fantastic at what he does.

 

[Alex Kanapilly]

No problem Stu,

You must have just glanced at my post. We're on the same page, Unity & Trust are important but that's not what the problem is. It was another American pool player who said it was about Unity & Trust, not me.

Where we disagree is about whether Johan can be effective for the USA Mosconi Cup Team LONG DISTANCE. I think he can utilize some of the tools of the digital age and make valuable contributions. Also, I don't know where it is said that Johan won't be coming to the U.S.A. to help train the American Team.

As far as how much time Johan will be putting in to "schooling our players" I don't think it will require that much time. There are not that many areas that our players have to "schooled on". I don't really like that phrase "schooled" as it sounds slightly condescending.

I think that the areas where each of our American players need improvement can be easily recognized and addressed simply by looking at the video of their play. I'm sure Johan will be doing a lot of that. It will be up to the players whether they take what Johan has to share to heart or just continue on their merry way.

I also believe that the Mosconi Cup requires a different mindset than traditional American tournament play and it is obvious that the Europeans have a different mindset and perhaps Johan can help our players to see precisely that.

Finally, I don't believe that there is that much difference in the level of play between our Team and theirs DESPITE them giving us repeated spankings in this event. An "outsider" like Johan is exactly what Team USA needs and I am more confident than ever that the right choice has been made.

Another example of small differences between European players and American players AND HOW THEY CAN BE FIXED QUICKLY: In a recent pool event (not the Mosconi Cup), one of our own Mosconi Cup players was having trouble making balls consistently UNTIL A EUROPEAN PLAYER TOLD HIM WHAT THE PROBLEM WAS. The very next match with the QUICK FIX in place, the TOP player went back to running balls consistently. Sometimes, it is little things that straighten players out IF THEY ARE WILLING TO LISTEN.

I have faith in our American players IF THEY ARE WILLING TO PUT THEIR EGOS ON THE SHELF and listen to the incoming coach. They are very talented players who do just a few things a little less consistently than the Europeans and I believe that can be addressed and improved IF THEY ARE WILLING TO ADMIT THEIR DEFIIENCIES AND WORK TO MAKE THEM THEIR STRENGTHS.

JoeyA

I think most of us simply have a problem with a former Euro coach and current European being named the US Mosconi Cup team captain. It's just not right in an international competition.

Maybe we do need Johann to "coach" the US players as you suggest, but it should be done in a consulting agreement where he is subordinate to a US based captain, as an adviser. He can't be the captain if this event is going to maintain it's legitimacy. Matchroom should recognize this and change their decision.

Think how the Euros would react if the situation was exactly the opposite of what it is now.

 

[sjm]

No problem Stu,

... As far as how much time Johan will be putting in to "schooling our players" I don't think it will require that much time. There are not that many areas that our players have to "schooled on". I don't really like that phrase "schooled" as it sounds slightly condescending.

It is here where we don't see eye to eye. I think it will take a huge effort to fix major errors in pattern play, strategy and general conceptualization. Only Justin Bergman was a complete enough player by my standards on the 2016 team. The others have weaknesses in "after the break skills" and those weaknesses showed up time and time again. If breaking big is your only path to victory against the elite, you're not well positioned to win with a neutral racker (something we badly need in the US on all streamed matches).

I'll keep an open mind. There are just over 10 months until Mosconi. Let's see what Johann accomplishes with our players in skills development in the first quarter of this time allotment. That means about 2 1/2 months, so such an evaluation will be appropriate in early April. And please, let's not use the excuse that he doesn't know who will be on the team. There aren't more than ten guys that could possibly qualify for this team, and everyone knows who they are, so the work can and must begin immediately.

 

[jay helfert]

I've had a few days to think about this and I can only compare it with two other sports, Golf and Tennis. Both are individual sports with a team competition between countries/continents. In Golf we have the Ryder Cup and the captain has always been an American player or former player. In Tennis there is the Davis Cup and likewise the captain has always been American. I don't think there will ever be a foreign captain for either of these teams.

In this respect that makes this decision to hire a foreign coach unique among similar sports. Somehow it takes the luster off the whole idea of the competition imo. A victory now by Team USA will be tainted in the opinion of many, as if we couldn't do it on our own. That is pretty obvious by the responses on here and I'm sure it will be shared by many pool fans all across the country.

No question Johann is a good guy and a great coach. Is it the best decision for all concerned, I'm not so sure now.