SVB cheating? Shaw/SVB Derby 9 Ball

Ak Guy said:
I don't get it. If Shaw really believes Shane and Dennis cheat when racking there is a simple solution, challenge them to a long winner breaks race in 9 Ball. Put some big money on the match. Should be easy for him as he feels he looses because they cheat.

Find a good neutral racker and use the Magic Rack. Who ever the rack guy is can ref the game. Then Shaw can prove he is right by taking Shane and Dennis down.

Why is it he does not do this? I think both Shane and Dennis would accommodate him.

I also plead with tournament directors, set some professional standards and show players the door when they act out. Don't tolerate childish temper tantrums and attempts to destroy ones character with the hope of gaining some future advantage.

Those types of people are not truthful, lack self control, and tarnish the game.
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When it comes to nine ball at this level the break is everything. Whoever breaks better will win. Do you really think either of them want to put up big money and leave their fate in the hands of a ref? Who chooses the ref? How do you know he's not corrupt?

Let's pretend for a second that the ref is completely neutral. How should the ref rack the balls? A rack is either good and you make the wing ball or bad and you don't make the wing ball. That's how the pro's see it. So should he rack them all good or rack them all bad? There is no minimum standard for racking. So technically, he can rack them great for one rack and horrible the next and there is nothing you can do about it.

How is a pro supposed to bet big money when he has no idea what kind of racks he will be dealing with?
 
alstl said:
Good video - can you do one on the ten ball break? That's where I've seen people being accused of manipulating the rack.
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Bob and I cover both 9-ball and 10-ball break strategy in detail on VENT-I. We cover lots of rack manipulation tricks for 9-ball, but none for 10-ball. I am not aware of any 10-ball tricks other than making the rack as tight as possible and hitting the 1 as squarely as possible from very close to the center of the table (to pocket the 2nd-row balls in the sides and the corner balls off 4 rails to the corners, and maybe the 1 in an upper corner, as we demonstrate on VENT-I).

Regards,
Dave
 
Meucciplayer said:
Oh, it is not so much that I can't find stuff (happens sometimes also) but more that I am just not good enough as a pool player to absorb it all at once. It's more my own capacity to remember what to do in a certain situation when it comes up during a game.
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Me too...great stuff there, but I can bite off only bits at a time.
 
pwd72s said:
Meucciplayer said:
dr_dave said:
I get that a lot ... "your website is too big and I get lost." I totally understand. I sometimes get lost trying to find stuff even though I put it all there. The following page might be useful for people who use or recommend my site:

How to Use billiards.colostate.edu

I also hope to improve and modernize the site at some point in the future.
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Oh, it is not so much that I can't find stuff (happens sometimes also) but more that I am just not good enough as a pool player to absorb it all at once. It's more my own capacity to remember what to do in a certain situation when it comes up during a game.
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Me too...great stuff there, but I can bite off only bits at a time.
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Nothing wrong with that. I don't claim to know every detail on my site either without specific review and practice.

Regards,
Dave
 
Has anyone, other than me, attempted to setup and break the now infamous rack in Shaw's picture? It might be due to my worn Simonis HR on my table, but that rack is a no go.

Someone with newer cloth please attempt it.

That video Dr. Dave put up is great.
 
dr_dave said:
Bob and I cover both 9-ball and 10-ball break strategy in detail on VENT-I. We cover lots of rack manipulation tricks for 9-ball, but none for 10-ball. I am not aware of any 10-ball tricks other than making the rack as tight as possible and hitting the 1 as squarely as possible from very close to the center of the table (to pocket the 2nd-row balls in the sides and the corner balls off 4 rails to the corners, and maybe the 1 in an upper corner, as we demonstrate on VENT-I).

Regards,
Dave
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Interesting - I'm not accusing anybody of anything but this isn't the first time I've heard people accuse Shane of spinning the one ball to create a gap. Maybe it's just a habit like Archer picking up invisible lint but he does spin the one ball. The magic rack by design gives a tight rack doesn't it? Or maybe he is trying to ensure a tight rack.

https://youtu.be/t0da_FqpD7s?t=368

https://youtu.be/t0da_FqpD7s?t=1465
 
alstl said:
Interesting - I'm not accusing anybody of anything but this isn't the first time I've heard people accuse Shane of spinning the one ball to create a gap.
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I agree, and I now believe he was gapping the rack at the DCC. I will be putting out another video as soon as I can.

Regards,
Dave
 
alstl said:
... The magic rack by design gives a tight rack doesn't it? Or maybe he is trying to ensure a tight rack. ...
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Sometimes for at least some templates the balls don't automatically freeze all the time and some "touch up" is required to freeze everything. Unfortunately, "touch up" can also be used to introduce gaps if needed.
 
Using triangle racks when Magic Racks are available is about as smart as using wooden tennis racquets or ivory billiard balls. Not to mention that with some of these clowns it takes more time to rack the balls than it does to clear the table-----great way to promote the sport!

Bottom line: Racking the balls shouldn't be a "skill" any more than racking the pins in a bowling alley. Take those triangle racks and put a torch to them.
 
Will it ever end?

I am beginning to think this 9 Ball racking issue will never go away.

I wonder how the rest of the countries with great 9 Ballers handle the rack issue and if they have as many problems as the U.S. does.

I also wonder if they spend as much time complaining about 9 Ball, wanting to change it, and have their pros play 10 Ball instead.

Those Asian countries, China, Taiwan, Japan and Pinoy land are a power house of top tier 9 Ball players. Maybe we could learn from them?
 
alstl said:
Interesting - I'm not accusing anybody of anything but this isn't the first time I've heard people accuse Shane of spinning the one ball to create a gap. Maybe it's just a habit like Archer picking up invisible lint but he does spin the one ball. The magic rack by design gives a tight rack doesn't it? Or maybe he is trying to ensure a tight rack.

https://youtu.be/t0da_FqpD7s?t=368

https://youtu.be/t0da_FqpD7s?t=1465
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I have been saying this for quite some time now especially his 10 ball break. I have spent hours testing that gap he does with the 10 ball rack and it works practically on every table. I am not saying he is the only one who does it but this fallacy of his break being the best simply because of his dedicated practice to it needs to stop.
 
dr_dave said:
I agree, and I now believe he was gapping the rack at the DCC. I will be putting out another video as soon as I can.

Regards,
Dave
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I have no problem believing the pros know how " to rack " and many probably do. What I do have a problem with everyone on here that keep saying you can't get a perfectly tight rack with a wooden triangle? Now I'm not saying any old table it's possible but with at least a half way decently kept up gambling table ( or brand new tables such as at some of these tournaments it shouldn't be no problem whatsoever .

I know I've racked thousands of racks with a wooden triangle that were perfect. I don't recall the name, but we had these wooden triangles that were slightly oversized . When racking 9 ball you'd have to use both hands at the bottom to push the rack up and once tight and pushed all the way forward there would be about 3/4 inch space left at the bottom ball from the rack. One pocket rack was similar 1/2 inch gap at the bottom. Anyway what I think is happening is many that are saying that wooden racks suck are just going along with the crowd. I think ,a be they see or hear the pros messing with the rack and think they are trying to get it tight while maybe they are taking so much time setting the rack the way they want it to be?
 
LOL at this whole thing. Does anyone HONESTLY think that SVB is so inept that he gives himself THIS CRUDDY OF A RACK, if it wasn't intentional? The gaps are HUGE.

There is also a false dichotomy between a completely perfect rack and a rack with gaps at the right places. Usually after a table has been played on, there is a challenge getting all the balls touching, but fairly simple to make some controlled gaps and have the rest of the balls touching. This offers control over the situation, rather than hoping that the balls don't slide apart after you walk away, or having a gap in an unfortunate place slip by you. You simply cannot compare a home table, to a completely unknown table you find at any given tournament. Who knows what's going on there. With the gaps you at least know what will happen. Gambling on getting them tight just may lose the match.

I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on rack tampering. But I know some of the tricks they use. Tilting the rack, sliding it forward or back, creating gaps etc, etc...Some people just cannot help but cheat. The magic rack and racking your own at least gives an honest person a chance of at least getting a good rack themselves. That's the only plus.
 
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BmoreMoney said:
So doesn't racking the 9 on the spot like some places do ( personally not a fan of this though ) totally eliminate everything in your videos?
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No. You can defeat the 9-on-the-spot with a cut break from the side or with a more direct hit using the tricks shown in my latest online video. Bob and I show how to defeat all forms of 9-ball rules on VENT-I, and I will cover some of the basics in the article I am writing for Billiards Digest this week.

Regards,
Dave
 
BmoreMoney said:
So doesn't racking the 9 on the spot like some places do ( personally not a fan of this though ) totally eliminate everything in your videos?
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At the 2016 US Open 9-ball, Jayson Shaw demonstrated how to leave a gap with the template rack so that the wing ball would go straight in. He did this before the tournament started so that people would know of the cheats to watch for so they could protect themselves. (It was nine on the spot at that Open).

In one of Ralf Souquet's matches, his opponent does the rack trick, breaks the wing ball in straight and fast. Ralf goes up to him, presumably tells him not to do that any more and he doesn't cheat again.

In another match, two fairly well-known US players were both cheating. One was doing the "feather the back ball" trick to make the wing ball and the other was pattern racking. Neither one complained. The pattern racker didn't know how to make a ball consistently so the other player got any benefit of the pattern. The pattern racker also got screwed because he missed Jayson's demo and didn't understand why his opponent was making the wing ball consistently.

Nine ball in the US is a farce.
 
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