And if the gaps are always in the same places. What exactly would that be?
For the record, it's highly unlikely you could unintentionally leave the exact same gaps every rack.
SVB cheating? Shaw/SVB Derby 9 Ball
- Thread starter sid98
- Start date
And if the gaps are always in the same places. What exactly would that be?
For the record, it's highly unlikely you could unintentionally leave the exact same gaps every rack.
... only if the rack alignment is tilted (which is another way to cheat, besides gapping balls). See:
NV J.3 - Shane and Dennis Were Not Totally Innocent at the Derby City Classic
Regards,
Dave
People do you really think that SVB doesn't know how to rack? He intentionally left the gaps WHERE HE WANTED!!!!. That's why he was breaking squarely and the wing ball went in. Shaw was pissed off because SVB fount out the best racking before he did and SVB was crushing him. End of story. Everybody is doing it. The problem with triangles is that it takes ages to get the balls sit like you want. Thats why we have to use magic racks at least we will not spend that much time making the rack 
Watch my new video again. In the first ball-gap example, I made sure all of the gaps matched Jayson's photo as closely as possible (using a mirror image of the rack since I was breaking from the other side). Look at the Jayson photo again. The 1-2-9-6 ball path is frozen and the gaps are on the other side of the rack. That is ideal to send the wing ball down table to the pocket.
In the new video, I show the CB positions both Shane and Dennis were using. Both send the wing ball too high with a tight and properly-aligned rack. For me, the Dennis line made it even easier to get a shot at the 1 after the break.
Regards,
Dave
Last edited:
It appears also that the 1-7-3-6-4 are frozen as well as the back balls 6-5-9
In your examples you had gaps placed on the outside balls. It appears the rack is frozen there.
The gaps that really are apparent are the 2-7, and 9-3....Jayson clearly is over those to get the photo and if those are intentional, I'm still wondering how those help the wing ball. You made it clear that the gaps on the back side of the rack will allow it to go.
I appreciate the analysis, I'm learning a lot as are many other players here. I thank you for your contributions.
Is it still possible that Shane just racks quick, makes sure the L path 1-2-9-6 is frozen, no gaps in the back 9-5-6 (which would lead to moving 9 ball and definitely a cheat)...then just gets to breaking?
Also, on a number of your gapped racks, the 9 ball is rolling away, a clear "tell" that there were gaps. In the match video, Shane's 9 stays still as the balls spread. Is that an indication that he was breaking a tighter rack with no gaps in the back?
I just double checked and his 9 ball is dead center no movement for the entire match. It gets kicked out in the last rack but completely motionless on the break.
Last edited:
Contrary, he took his time for the particular rack in question. He racked, looked at it, not satisfied, re-racked again, and looked at it again.
To make sure the balls he wants frozen are. Yes. The last rack that Jayson rakes, Shane gets up, re-racks quick, and breaks with same result. I always thought 9 ball completely still is a good rack with no gaps in the backside.
And Jayson didn't take a photo or protest that last rack.
Pangit
Banned
This thread is a perfect example of pool in general. Most pool players are known to be unscrupulous, given the chance. That's why it will always be a pub game. It's not a real sport.
The rules are as loose as SVB (and other's) racking techniques. It's funny seeing all the excuses being made though. :angel:
The rules are as loose as SVB (and other's) racking techniques. It's funny seeing all the excuses being made though. :angel:
In my opinion, it's fun learning the intricacies of the game. This thread has a ton of learning throughout and dialogues like this are healthy for the sport (I consider it a sport still).
And before we label a player who won 5 US Opens with 4 different sets of racking/breaking rules as a "cheater", I think that every theory, angle, and viewpoint getting scrutinized is not only responsible, but fair.
In Jayson's photo, the gaps between the 2&7 and 3&9 are obvious, but I think there are also gaps between the 3&7 and 3&6. You just can't see them from the poor camera angle.
Again, I think you should watch the new video again. I explain how the wing ball goes with both the side-gaps example and the back-ball gap example.
You're welcome. I aim to swerve.
I wouldn't say his racking is "quick," but I do agree with the other part.
Regards,
Dave
In the Jayson photo, the 2, 7, 5, and 6 all seem to be frozen to the 9. This would certainly help limit 9-ball motion. With my side-gap example, I wasn't so careful making sure all of those balls were frozen to the 9.
Regards,
Dave
If the 9 ball moves (without being kissed), it is because there are gaps in the rack. However, the reverse is not true ... not all gaps cause the 9 ball to move.
Regards,
Dave
Last edited:
"There are but three true sports--bullfighting, mountain climbing, and motor-racing. The rest are merely games."
.....Ernest Hemingway.
You are probably right there. And those people don't even realize how you can cheat with a rack, what pattern racking is "good" for, they still think breaking is totally a matter of luck only improved by a powerful stroke.
Sure. But then again I also believe that people who don't or can't give a tight rack would volunteer. The players getting those rackers would certainly complain and we would have another - slightly different discussion about racking. I don't think we would improve anything big time, the problems would only change.
In Jayson's photo, the gaps between the 2&7 and 3&9 are obvious, but I think there are also gaps between the 3&7 and 3&6. You just can't see them from the poor camera angle.
Again, I think you should watch the new video again. I explain how the wing ball goes with both the side-gaps example and the back-ball gap example.
You're welcome. I aim to swerve.
I wouldn't say his racking is "quick," but I do agree with the other part.
Regards,
Dave
Isn't it illegal for Jason to go up there and take this photo while
Shane is on the table?
It was Shane's table and he interrupted him from his break and
even messed up the rack at one point.
Don't know the rules well enough to know for sure.
All I know is that while a person is shooting you can't interrupt them.
Maybe it doesn't apply to the break.
Jayson's behavior would certainly have incurred an "unsportsmanlike conduct" penalty if a referee had been present.
Regards,
Dave
Thanks for all the input, Doc. It's greatly appreciated.
I also dislike rack-your-own. But were you around in the opponent racks days? I remember incessant arguments among most of the top players, including the more gentlemanly ones. Tournament directors couldn't deal with it anymore - and the scenes players would make was very negative for the sport and fans. Even at big events. The collective, sport-wide consensus and solution was a move to rack your own. When RYO become dominant, there was a higher rate of early accusations of players messing with the rack - to explain why someone lost, to blame, to shark or just be jerks. It went down quite a bit, but still pops up here and there. Compared to opponent racks, it is far, far less disruptive.
I can't imagine going back to the days of watching matches where 25% of the time spent is rack inspections and arguments and re-racks and complaints to TD's.
As for the reason why pool is in the gutter - that's a vast, vast topic. No way to simplify it or condense it, but if I had too - it's because there's just too many degenerates in pool.
Ideally, referee racking is best. But there's no bandwidth for that in the declined pool world today.