Gambling 101

Celophanewrap

Celophanewrap

Call me Grace
Silver Member
Hello everyone.
Recently our own ChrisinNC brought us a thread "Gambling Scenario - Opinions"

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=470489

It got some interesting response, or at least I found it interesting. Personally I don't
gamble, maybe because I'm careful, or maybe because I'm cheap, I dunno.

To me I enjoy the security of knowing what I have in my wallet and what my financial limits are.

I guess I should correct that by saying I don't gamble with my own money, I have gambled when
someone had enough confidence in my game to offer to negotiate terms and put up for me.

I love to watch the big money games and the banter or deal making that goes on beforehand.

I remember being at local room some years ago and a friend of mine shows up with about $10000
in his pocket for a money game with one of the employees.

The employee couldn't get out of work but they both wanted to gamble, so they agreed to go $5000 two
times on a coin flip. It was really cool to watch, but I never understood why or how.

So that brings me to my question, Why do you gamble?

Is it to win money or is it that you have a hard time finding motivation if there's no "real skin" in the game?

Do you need to gamble to play, even if it's just for a beer or for table time? Do you count on
your winnings as a part of your livelihood or income?

What is it about gambling that makes you do it or even want to do it?
 
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For myself, I don't need to gamble to enjoy playing the game. I just like it pool. As for gambling itself, it does nothing but bring out the worst in human beings. It's like drug for some. They can't get enough. I've seen it happen to a relative and a close friend. It wasn't pretty.

Many time I would practice and someone would walk up and ask to play a few games. I would say "as many as I can before I die"! They would chuckle and say how about 10 bucks a game. When I tell them I don't gamble, they will get a disgusted look on their face and walk away. This tells me a lot about someone's character.... or lack thereof.

I will play for beers. But only because I don't mind buying someone a beer. I'm not cheap. I'm not scared. I just don't agree with gambling in an uncontrolled environment. If I want to gamble, I will enter a tournament.... even a small hick town one. Again, I'm not cheap, I think gambling cheapens the game.... And humans.
 
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Around gamblers, the money tells the truth.
...and that can be a refreshing change from the every-day life of social lives.

A player makes outrageous claims on who he can beat or shots they can do...
...offer them a bet on it...the bullshit often stops.
 
I'm speaking for myself only here, winning the money was/is seldom the goal for me. Playing for money is a means to an end, not the end in itself. Yes, I've enjoyed taking money from some people. In particular, someone who thought their skill level was way over mine and they had bragged about how bad they could beat me, spotting me quite a bit in Straight pool. I've liked coming out on the winning end of a ring game after four or five hours. I like taking someone's money whose intent is just to win mine. Hustle in reverse, so to speak.
I've said this before, playing for money gives me a reason not to miss. It sharpens my concentration. Keeps me down on the shot 'till the ball goes in the pocket. I admit that there have been times when I've played for money and this didn't happen, but more often than not, it did. It's kind of like risking something in hopes of some reward. I've never been able to play real well in tournaments and I've hated playing for nothing and losing to people well, well below my own skill level just because they wouldn't bet two dollars that fat meat was greasy, to quote the fat man. I've said this before also, it's the way some of us learned to play! And George Fels said in his book "By all means, play for a little something. It will help to learn to handle the unique pressures of the game a bit better", or words to that effect. I just don't like people making an agenda against gambling just because they know somebody with a gambling problem and talking like the rest of us who play for money are dirt bags and that all gambling is wrong. Sorry for the rant. And, I always tell people that playing for money will help them get better faster. It's not the only way, sure, but it's a lot faster than trying to learn to play for pride, for most people, at least in my experience.

Edit: George Fels's quote from #27, 101 Tips
 
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I've said it before...gambling in a pool room can be a lot of fun..........IF you learn how to manage people.
In a bar or beer joint?? Not me..........I wouldn't bet water was wet.
There's always some guy there who was the "toughest guy in New York City, was a champion boxer, connected with the outfit, ran with all the gangs, and 'owned' the Blackstone Rangers", etc, etc. etc. who's ready to bash your head if things go awry. I don't understand why anyone goes into those dumps in the first place. (The germs and bacteria alone are enough to keep a sane person away.)
I have a nice list of "customers" who like to bet with me because I don't give them any crap and they always want to play again. I keep notes of their birthdays and always buy them a token gift...I know the names of their kids and where they go to school, their wives, their favorite foods, their cars, troubles, any health issues and I converse with them about all those things. I buy all of them a Christmas present every year. It's called managing your accounts.
That takes skill and a keen understanding of human nature...most pool players are too stubborn or prideful to learn how to that. The egos of some are off the charts.
Anyway, I use gambling as a part time job....and it supplements my income nicely. It's fun too...and the big dogs are always coming around looking for a stakehorse.
I loan them money at decent interest rates as well.
You'd be surprised what those big dogs know about the 'inside' workings of a pool center and who's zooming who, etc. etc. etc.
As I've said...it's a fun life. But it takes some BRAINS and not muscle and a big mouth.
 
Low500 said:
....
That takes skill and a keen understanding of human nature...most pool players are too stubborn or prideful to learn how to that. The egos of some are off the charts....
Click to expand...
Since I have a 9 foot table at home, I rarely venture into a pool room anymore. And since I play leagues in the bars, that is where any money games that I play in get proposed.

You are right about egos though. I play for money for the fun and challenge of it. But even when playing cheap ($5 a game), it seems like peoples egos jump right out of their skin at some point.

I even stopped playing teammates for money due to problems that just weren't worth it, but then 3 of my teammates and I played the other day. We were ribbing each other a bit while playing, but of course, when the end of play came and one side had to pay, of course the egos came out and the losers tried to find a reason to say the winners were out of line.

I've chalked it up to being part of the game. It's still fun enough for people to still talk me into money games once in a while...
 
Celophanewrap said:
Hello everyone.
Recently our own ChrisinNC brought us a thread "Gambling Scenario - Opinions"

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=470489

It got some interesting response, or at least I found it interesting. Personally I don't
gamble, maybe because I'm careful, or maybe because I'm cheap, I dunno.

To me I enjoy the security of knowing what I have in my wallet and what my financial limits are.

I guess I should correct that by saying I don't gamble with my own money, I have gambled when
someone had enough confidence in my game to offer to negotiate terms and put up for me.

I love to watch the big money games and the banter or deal making that goes on beforehand.

I remember being at local room some years ago and a friend of mine shows up with about $10000
in his pocket for a money game with one of the employees.

The employee couldn't get out of work but they both wanted to gamble, so they agreed to go $5000 two
times on a coin flip. It was really cool to watch, but I never understood why or how.

So that brings me to my question, Why do you gamble?

Is it to win money or is it that you have a hard time finding motivation if there's no "real skin" in the game?

Do you need to gamble to play, even if it's just for a beer or for table time? Do you count on
your winnings as a part of your livelihood or income?

What is it about gambling that makes you do it or even want to do it?
Click to expand...

There's a difference between gambling and playing for cash when you know your strengths and weaknesses and the approximate speed of your opponent...
 
I love playing pool. I also love the pressure of playing for cash. I play a few friends for the fun of playing. In fun games I don't play many safeties unless it's a challenging one to pull off. I find it's a good time to explore creative shots, which means the outcome (winning or losing) has no value. There is no goal other than having fun and practicing or experimenting with shots and sharing shots and ideas.

But when keeping score, like a race, even if it's for fun with no money involved, I tend to play at full speed because the outcome is now goal-oriented. I want to win. That's the goal. It doesn't matter if it's a race to 7 for $100 or a race to 5 for a beer or pride....winning is the goal. But if there's more on the line than pride alone, there's a certain amount of thrill involved. Knowing you could lose a few bills adds another element to the game that requires more intelligence and more control of your nerves and emotions. So for me it's not so much a money-hungry thing as it is a self test of inner strength.

Gambling directly against another player on the pool table isn't the same as throwing $1000 on a basketball game or a horse race, events for which you have zero control, and therefore no amount of personal skill or intelligence can alter the outcome. That's true gambling -- like flipping coins. I don't see a bet between two people to determine which is more skilled or talented, or crafty or lucky, as a coin flip independent of each player's performance/efforts.
 
During my first cycle as a pool player, from about age 18 to 33 I ONLY played for money! I was the guy always trying to get people to bet something, probably pretty obnoxious at times. After I had my revelation about pool and totally quit for three years, I came back with a wholly different attitude. I quit trying to hustle people and only played for the love of the game. It took me awhile to accept the fact that some guys just want to gamble when they play, so I began accepting money games if they came my way, but I never asked anyone to gamble myself. They had to ask me first.

I'm pretty much still that way today, preferring to play with friends and maybe bet dinner on the outcome. I have accepted a challenge or two over the years (JoeyA took me for 500!), but those games have been few and far between. Jazznpool and I have played a little One Pocket in preparation for Griff's event next month and he has me two games stuck so far. Our bet is a small one between friends.

I'm fortunate to be at a point in life where I don't need the money and don't really care about beating anyone to prove anything. I'm not saying I won't play and gamble, just that it's not likely to happen except under some extraordinary circumstances. My bursitis/arthritic condition was so bad for the last year that I couldn't even get down on the balls. Thanks to daily doses of Tumeric it has subsided to the point where I can play again. I got crushed in the Senior's event in Houston a year or so ago (I was definitely not in any condition to be playing), only winning one match while I was there. Hopefully, I can improve on that in Vegas later this month.

P.S. It's funny but I feel more pressure playing in a tournament then playing for cash. That's probably because I gambled so much early on and never played a tournament until I was about 30. I always felt in my element when their was a bet!
 
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Low500 said:
I have a nice list of "customers" who like to bet with me because I don't give them any crap and they always want to play again. I keep notes of their birthdays and always buy them a token gift...I know the names of their kids and where they go to school, their wives, their favorite foods, their cars, troubles, any health issues and I converse with them about all those things. I buy all of them a Christmas present every year. It's called managing your accounts.
Click to expand...

Maybe it's just me but I find this extremely creepy.
 
Fast Eddy: Money won is twice as sweet as money earned!
Weenie Beenie as said to me in 1971:If you're going to play for money, you better have the 'Killer Instinct ". If you're not trying to win his cash, watch, rings, car, boat , etc...you better get a JOB! You can always give back what you want . Remember, he is trying to win all your money...etc.
Hustling pool is not about great pool. Its about people management.
Most matches, the money is won before you hit the first ball.....
If you know how to hustle. Otherwise, you might as well filp a coin
or go to work.
Thats my $100 worth...of course , today , it would me $1000.
Good luck
Pushout forever.....
 
Put 5 of the best gamblers on a team, call them the MC USA team, and they can't beat their way out of a wet paperbag against a team comprise of tournament players. Gambling don't make you a better player, it just means you're either better or worse than the person you're playing at the moment. You HAVE to be GREAT player to dominate in tournaments AND while gambling, unfortunately MOST player's fall on one side or the other in that equation, and gamblers are strongest in one on one matchups, but DON'T put a team of them together and expect a win for the outcome!!
 
When I'm told I'll never be any good if I don't play for money, I say that's okay because I'm into playing for the fun of it, so how good I do or don't get isn't important.

In my experience, gambling only creates hard feelings.

Hey, if you like to gamble, fine. Just don't bother asking me.
 
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For myself, gambling provides close to the rush and high you get when playing in a tournament - also assumed for a monetary payout. It's not to say that a session with a fairly evenly matched opponent without gambling can't be very enjoyable, but it's simply not the same as the pressure one feels when there is something at stake on the outcome, or the satisfaction one feels when playing well and winning - a tournament match or gambling match. Of course, the losing is just the opposite - it's much more painful when it occurs when gambling or in a tournament match. As a result, hopefully one should learn more from your losses when it happens either in a tournament or a gambling session.

For myself, matching up and playing sets with someone without something at stake is nothing much different than a practice session by myself. For me, when I do it with other players, I still like to race to a number of games, which makes it mean more than just playing random games and not keeping score. I still try my hardest, I may experiment a little more, and it can be enjoyable and can help prepare you for a tournament or a gambling session, but generally those sessions really don't mean much to most of the players like myself who feel this way.
 
I love sets between 20 and 50 bucks. It's obviously not about the money at that amount, but it's about how well you play in the scenario. Plus I prefer it over league as well as there is an instant reward or punishment for your match. I don't mind playing with someone for fun, but I don't really like doing that on the fly, normally that would be for meeting up with friend at the poolhall or something like that. I don't consider that practice. If I am in practice mode, it is by myself.
 
I have a question for the gamblers::

Would you still gamble if you had to pay IRS taxes on your winnings?
 
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