Calling all pro speed players

JC

Coos Cues
With the caveat that Siming Chen is a product of the communist party and is no “ free range “ player.

So maybe you should check the bias talk. Will she undergo a drug test?

Remember all those other top Chinese women players? Me neither. They're in prison camps now after losing too often.

They play for a lot more than the money. It's life or death over there in commie land.

JC
 

mikepage

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Make an analogy that doesn't involve race then.

I understand Fargo is Mike's baby and he considers this thread a direct affront to it but keep it real.

JC

I don't understand your objection to my analogy. Why is using race bad?
 

MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't understand your objection to my analogy. Why is using race bad?


My bet is that race is an exposed nerve in this country. Enough that making race-based analogies may be over played to exaggerate severity similar to nazi-based analogies.

However you’re using the analogy to describe gender-based prejudices so it’s not a far stretch that an analogy to race-based prejudices would be used. Both are protected classes due to historical (and present) discrimination. People like to roll their eyes at gender discrimination because they are less likely to acknowledge it exists than they are race discrimination.

But in general you run the risk any time you use an analogy. Someone will always scrutinize the analogy itself into specific detail instead of just taking the more general point. I’ve learned to avoid analogies more and more in favor of just expressing my point more directly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

ghost ball

justnum survivor
Silver Member
20 odd years ago I was at the Hollywood Athletic Club in Hollywood California when KD Lang the singer, her girlfriend and Martina Navratilova walked in. It was during the afternoon and the place was not busy yet, just regulars playing, the music was low. You could hear the balls as they found their way into the returns.

Regulars at the HAC were used to seeing " celebrities " as they saw a litany of them. It was a common occurrence. Folks that didn't play pool would just stroll through the place or have dinner and drinks because it was a pool palace.

Martina was wearing shorts and her legs were unlike anything I have ever seen on a normal female. They had massive arteries and veins protruding from a prodigious mass of muscles.

Her wrists, forearms and arms were really pumped. She stood right next to me for about five minutes. She looked like a race horse.

It has been highly rumored that she was on the juice. My point, is that competitive people male or female will do just about anything to win.

....

Anyone horny after reading this one?
 

JC

Coos Cues
I don't understand your objection to my analogy. Why is using race bad?

Because it's been so abused by the left since Trump won the election that it now causes immediate tuning out. Thank god the girl isn't Russian.

You had a bunch of good points I think because at the end I tuned out and forgot what you were saying now.

Besides race based bias isn't the same as gender based so it was not that strong of an analogy.

JC
 

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Anyone horny after reading this one?

LOL

True story:

30ish or so years ago a buddy of mine went on a date :grin-devilish:with a female bodybuilder. She was a big girl and no fat anywhere from what I remember.

The next day he came to the pool room and someone ask him if she made him feel like less of a man after undressing and if he had a hard (no pun intended) time "performing" :kiss:(he was the total opposite of a bodybuilder....picture "pool player6"..lol), well, he sat there for a second and then said "you know what?, I was scared stiff all night:shocked2: She picked me up and threw me from one side of the bed to the other. I'm just glad she did break anything":shocked:

Old memories........:rotflmao1:

Rake
 

MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've heard people referring to "snowflakes," and I know it is derogatory. But I have to confess I don't know what it means.


It starts from something positive and gets mocked into something negative. Take the idea that every person is unique and special. Like snowflakes, no two people are the same. Then take how you can make each individual feel special. That can go in directions of anti-bullying and looking for opportunities to raise their self-esteem so that they build the confidence needed to try hard later on. These are often associated with liberal values.

It turns negative when faced with conservative values. Some (not all or necessarily most) young kids enter adulthood feeling entitled to special treatment. They don’t think they need to work to earn anything. Conservatives think this is the outcome of a generation raised with liberal values. Kids getting participation trophies and not keeping score in sports leads to adults expecting promotions without needing to compete and work for it. Overly sensitive whiners.

I think this whole approach is just a way to over simplify a complex topic into a meme that further entrenches us in our political divide. It’s a way of injecting politics into a topic that isn’t political. Usually done by people so immersed in political argument that they can’t help injecting it into all their conversations.


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mikepage

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Because it's been so abused by the left since Trump won the election that it now causes immediate tuning out. Thank god the girl isn't Russian.

You had a bunch of good points I think because at the end I tuned out and forgot what you were saying now.

Besides race based bias isn't the same as gender based so it was not that strong of an analogy.

JC

She's not a girl. She's a woman. I don't think you'd refer to the top male player as a "boy." I just don't get these rules with the button phrases and stuff like that.

The analogy made sense. The claim was essentially, Because I'm male and have testosterone, a female--any female--beating me at pool is inconceivable to me

It is hard to find a statement that matches the absurdity. It is so ridiculous that the insult isn'y even to females; it is to all thinking human beings.

No Jew is going to out-think me. No black is going to beat me at golf. No muslim is going to run faster than me. The analogy is about the vile absurdity involving a significant fraction of the world's population... These others are just as ridiculous...
 

mikepage

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It starts from something positive and gets mocked into something negative. Take the idea that every person is unique and special. Like snowflakes, no two people are the same. Then take how you can make each individual feel special. That can go in directions of anti-bullying and looking for opportunities to raise their self-esteem so that they build the confidence needed to try hard later on. These are often associated with liberal values.

It turns negative when faced with conservative values. Some (not all or necessarily most) young kids enter adulthood feeling entitled to special treatment. They don’t think they need to work to earn anything. Conservatives think this is the outcome of a generation raised with liberal values. Kids getting participation trophies and not keeping score in sports leads to adults expecting promotions without needing to compete and work for it. Overly sensitive whiners.

I think this whole approach is just a way to over simplify a complex topic into a meme that further entrenches us in our political divide. It’s a way of injecting politics into a topic that isn’t political. Usually done by people so immersed in political argument that they can’t help injecting it into all their conversations.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Thank you. That makes sense.
 

mikepage

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Remember all those other top Chinese women players? Me neither. They're in prison camps now after losing too often.

They play for a lot more than the money. It's life or death over there in commie land.

JC

We talk about wanting pool to move forward. And there are a lot of other things in the world that need to move forward as well.

This is the kind of sticky scum that works against all of it.
 

RiverCity

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
She's not a girl. She's a woman. I don't think you'd refer to the top male player as a "boy." I just don't get these rules with the button phrases and stuff like that.

The analogy made sense. The claim was essentially, Because I'm male and have testosterone, a female--any female--beating me at pool is inconceivable to me

It is hard to find a statement that matches the absurdity. It is so ridiculous that the insult isn'y even to females; it is to all thinking human beings.

No Jew is going to out-think me. No black is going to beat me at golf. No muslim is going to run faster than me. The analogy is about the vile absurdity involving a significant fraction of the world's population... These others are just as ridiculous...

Shhhhh, if you point out the obvious absurdity of the claims made in this thread, others wont have the ability to say these type of things about people pointing out this issue, like

Theyre just jealous
Now you have done your job, and killed some more action.
Pool "needs this"
No champion ever emerges without that kind of heart
All the haters out there have to stop bashing
I guess you can chalk it up to being the age of the internet, where everyone wants to be a wise guy. (edited from: where everyone's an expert.)

Clusterfook threads like this only come around once every couple or 3 years on AZB. Its best to treat them like a nice bottle of whiskey. Pour them into a decanter and let them breathe for a while. Then sit back, pour a few fingers of Pappy Van Winkle and enjoy the lunacy displayed by those who cannot see the forest for the trees.
 

JC

Coos Cues
We talk about wanting pool to move forward. And there are a lot of other things in the world that need to move forward as well.

This is the kind of sticky scum that works against all of it.

Sorry if my sense of humor isn't up your alley. Be offended if you must.

I have referred to many males in their 20s as boys they don't seem to get all up in the undies over it. As in, the boy can play! And yes, that girl can play!

JC
 

ideologist

I don't never exaggerate
Silver Member
Sorry if my sense of humor isn't up your alley. Be offended if you must.

I have referred to many males in their 20s as boys they don't seem to get all up in the undies over it. As in, the boy can play! And yes, that girl can play!

JC


You should just stick to NPR, you get all up in the undies if anyone else even exists
 
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jimmyg

Mook! What's a Mook?
Silver Member
Originally Posted by jimmyg View Post
Not to mention that this is also a very rare case...she is certainly the exception.

Anyone denying that men and women are generally genetically wired differently each with different strengths, weaknesses, and inherent predispositions, is purely delusional.

I agree 100% that men and women have a great deal of difference across all sorts of categories. I also agree that there are differences between individual women, and between individual men. SIming Chen is rare in so much as she is "the best". However she is not the least bit rare in regard to the fact that she is one of thousands or 10's of thousands of people who have won or lost racks against fargo rated opponents and received a rating accordingly.

WHY and HOW she came by that rating are completely irrelevant to fargo ratings. Fargo predicts performance in terms of liklihood of winning racks against a particular rating. The prediction is based on past performances against that rating and/or is extrapolated from other match ups. The sex, eye color, weight, bench press max number, competitive spirit, etc. all may have contributed to those performances one way or another, but are not predictive of those performances. Are you suggesting otherwise?

KMRUNOUT

Quote: MattPoland

Of course. There’s a lot of reasons for disparity between men and women. On the average men take more interest in pool than women and produce significantly more top level players.

But when a top level woman does emerge for whatever reason, like Siming, the people denying she is top level or thinking an average man can beat her is even more delusional. And that’s what matches like this demonstrate. And I’d like more matches like this to prove it out for the doubters.

I wasn't suggesting anything. But, just in case I wasn't as clear as I thought I was, I'll go a little deeper into these shark infested waters.

Even absent strength, which is an enormous factor in most sports, at some point during competitions, more so at the higher levels, skills and knowledge will take a backseat to determination, aggression, and will. Men, via testosterone, are genetically engineered to be dominate in those areas compared to women. With few exceptions that is a fact. Even in pool, where the factor of strength isn't nearly as important as with other sports one can see the usual differences in will and aggression, men are naturally much more intense in these areas. But again, there are always exceptions, perhaps she is one of them and I wish her luck.

As for the "fargogate" rating system, I suppose it's not unlike The Daily Racing Form, The Tale of The Tape, or any other system that gathers and processes past performance data. They do what they do well, but the Vegas bookmakers are still making a fortune. Mike, if I'm wrong, chime in.

Snowflakes: the new generation of people who believe that everyone is different and special, deserves a participation trophy, are easily offended, and expect the fruits of other people's labor. :smile:
 

overlord

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My bet is that race is an exposed nerve in this country. Enough that making race-based analogies may be over played to exaggerate severity similar to nazi-based analogies.

However you’re using the analogy to describe gender-based prejudices so it’s not a far stretch that an analogy to race-based prejudices would be used. Both are protected classes due to historical (and present) discrimination. People like to roll their eyes at gender discrimination because they are less likely to acknowledge it exists than they are race discrimination.

But in general you run the risk any time you use an analogy. Someone will always scrutinize the analogy itself into specific detail instead of just taking the more general point. I’ve learned to avoid analogies more and more in favor of just expressing my point more directly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Do you think the Chinese communists got it about right regarding gender after they murdered 75 million of their own people?

Sounds to me like you are calling for reeducation.
 

overlord

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
We talk about wanting pool to move forward. And there are a lot of other things in the world that need to move forward as well.

This is the kind of sticky scum that works against all of it.

Sounds to me like you are ignorant of the history. Furthermore I am souring on your whole rating system.

Why don't you mind your own business and let folk do what they are inclined to do.
 
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Dexter36

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Holy cow, this thread!??

I don’t have a dog in this race, straight up.. this thread has gone so many loop de loops it’s crazy, several topics not connected all being tossed around at once. Here’s what I can see so far, and perhaps a more meaningful end idea to certain topics.

First of all, as has been discussed, with John doe having only played 5 fargo rated matches his rating is worthless. This association to that threw half this thread off the rails from the get go. As far as J doe woofing anonymously, and calling out the top female in the world, it could have been more discreet 50 ways from sunday, he is getting the attention he wanted out of it though. I think he enjoys the idea of knocking the dust off the pillows a bit and getting everyone rustled up to make silly bets in the name of bringing some swagger and excitement to the community. Guy wants to get a game, I want to watch, willing to pay to see, personally not super excited to bet on the match... If I had a better idea of john doe’s speed I might feel different for pocket change for sake of greater entertainment.
 

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Silver Member
One way to look at this, is whether this type of match is good for pool or not.

Watching a low rated player donate his money to a much superior player, to me, isn't good for pool.

We've all seen this guy in the local pool room. Donating money to a guy he has no business playing. It can be uncomfortable to watch at times. And a few guys tell that dude on the side trying to help him, to save his money and play someone closer to his level.

How much was the price of admission to watch? Nothing ? Why did you watch ?
Why didn't these wonderful guys that are looking out for this poor guy just ask
his opponent if he minded if they tell him he should not be wasting his money
this way. He is obviously a victim and needs the help of the knock artists. Used
to be you took care of your own business you didn't need some pool detective
sticking their nose in your business whether you were robbing or getting robbed.
MYOFB stay out of the game.
jack

Fact is, if he's gonna be dissuaded by people on AZ, he doesn't have the heart to play anyway.
You are seriously overreacting.
Jason

Meant for Jack
 
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