Huge Action Alex Pagulayan vs Justin Hall LIVE July 31 who do you guys like ?

ChrisinNC said:
If rolls were reversed and Justin won the set and pulled the same proposition on Alex, how do you think Alex and his stable would have liked it? What if the poker player in Vegas getting that huge spot in one pocket had quit on Alex when he was up 12k or 15k or whatever, how would Alex have liked it? Unless it's agreed upon from the get go that it's to be 1 set only regardless of who wins, it's simply not good gambling etiquette to quit a winner after one set without giving your opponent another shot to win it back the same way he lost it - I guess I'm old school.
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I tend to agree with most of that, but they never had a agreement to play more than one set.

That is why you lock up the money in the 1st place.

Maybe Alex and his backers felt like they out ran the nuts and got out of the trap who really knows why they didn't play more.

But like i said before how can you call Alex and his backers nitty for giving Justin everything he wanted in the 1st place, they agreed to everything Justin asked for. Justin should of posted up two sets to begin with i guess.
 
ChrisinNC said:
If rolls were reversed and Justin won the set and pulled the same proposition on Alex, how do you think Alex and his stable would have liked it? What if the poker player in Vegas getting that huge spot in one pocket had quit on Alex when he was up 12k or 15k or whatever, how would Alex have liked it? Unless it's agreed upon from the get go that it's to be 1 set only regardless of who wins, it's simply not good gambling etiquette to quit a winner after one set without giving your opponent another shot to win it back the same way he lost it - I guess I'm old school.
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It was agreed to be one set-otherwise the PPV would have been advertised differently. Ahead sets imo, especially when they are planned to go multiple days, are the exception to the "rule" prohibiting quitting ahead. JMHO.
 
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ChrisinNC said:
Do any of these big name players play on their own $$ other than Shane?
What do they do with the $$ they win? Gamble it away in the casinos?
I guess, unless you've negotiated this in your arrangement, if you have a
stakehorse like most of them do, you can't pick and choose which matches
you play on your own dime and which ones you want your stakehorse to
cover. Reminds me of when Bert demands Fast Eddie to pay him his cut
of Eddie's winnings after Eddie wins his rematch versus Fats near the end
of "The Hustler" movie.
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Situations in the gambling world are mutable.
Jose Parica and Alex have probably bet more of their own money than 90% of players.
....for instance, in that 15-4 game at Scott’s place, Alex won 8Gs...his own money...
...the rest was bet by side action.

When Alex played Scott Frost a few years ago on the West Coast, that game was made
without Alex being consulted....and the money was put up by the guy who made the game.

First time I saw Jose play....he had been shipped in by a group of Pinoys who just
wanted to see him in action....he never had to use his own money....
...but Jose could shove his own chips better than most.

Some players are ‘company men’....and need a board meeting for any big action.
 
I think there are plenty of experiences supporting both Alex's and Justin's camps' sides, so we will never know "right or wrong", coz what happened is neither and both.

One of them things you gotta discuss beforehand, if it is important to you.

Damn straight that team Al wanted to bet more. That was easier than making toast.

Damn straight that team Justin is positioned to get it back, plus more.

Everybody get your day planners out...
 
terryhanna said:
I tend to agree with most of that, but they never had a agreement to play more than one set.

That is why you lock up the money in the 1st place.

Maybe Alex and his backers felt like they out ran the nuts and got out of the trap who really knows why they didn't play more.

But like i said before how can you call Alex and his backers nitty for giving Justin everything he wanted in the 1st place, they agreed to everything Justin asked for. Justin should of posted up two sets to begin with i guess.
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I usually agree with Chris but this time I have to disagree. These "Challenge" matches are not really gambling. I mean, ok, yeah, they are, in a way. But at the same time, they're not. Back in the day, or even now, by and large, when 2 players matched up, there were no posters made in photoshop for them. There was no streaming. No advance advertising. 2 guys hooked up, matched up, and played, whether it was for 10 a game or 5,000.00 sets. And when they did, unless someone specifically said, "Yo, gotta go at 8:30, regardless." ( which was rare ), then it was understood the loser ALWAYS had say on when it was over. You just did NOT quit winner. It was a surefire way to get your thumbs broken. Or worse. The loser either quit or went bust. These Challenge matches are pretty much One Trick Ponies. When Donny lost to Chen, I'm SURE ( I know him well ) he wanted to play another set. And he may've even said so, but it never was discussed here on AzB cause it never really occurred to anyone. It was a race to 15 Challenge match. They played. it was over. They went home. Challenge matches are much more exhibition matches than gambling. Regardless of the money involved.
 
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Nostroke said:
It was agreed to be one set-otherwise the PPV would have been advertised differently. Ahead sets imo, especially when they are planned to go multiple days, are the exception to the "rule" prohibiting quitting ahead. JMHO.
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This makes sense to me, although I’m not a gambler.

If Team Alex agree to one more race, they could spend 4 days at it and say Justin wins. Is he obliged to bet again? If not, Team Alex has just spent a week for nothing. Would Alex had been obligated to “flip it” if the race had lasted four days in the first place?

As a pure matter of interest, if they played another set and broke even in the usual staking deal would Alex get anything? What if they take the money now and play a new set in two months - does Alex get his share of the first match and have no skin in the second?
 
There could be many reasons why Alex's camp didn't want to play another set right away, and they are all valid. It is totally their option to continue or stop at that point, and agree to play another day. This is really a decision of the backers who post the money, with input from their player. I think they probably did Justin a favor. He looked a little beat down to me. I wouldn't have bet on him if they played again right away...or maybe ever! :rolleyes:
 
jay helfert said:
There could be many reasons why Alex's camp didn't want to play another set right away, and they are all valid. It is totally their option to continue or stop at that point, and agree to play another day. This is really a decision of the backers who post the money, with input from their player. I think they probably did Justin a favor. He looked a little beat down to me. I wouldn't have bet on him if they played again right away...or maybe ever! :rolleyes:
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They did Justin a favor by not playing more.
 
ScottyDzntKnow said:
20k isn't shit to a pool player when the 50k is like 5k to Roy. He should of at least let him play another set for what he lost. You can try to justify them telling him he had to double it all you want but I've been around gambling in pool rooms to long to agree with that. It's a shit move that only shady people try pulling in the pool room. I'm not calling Alex shady but his stake horse pulled a shady move.
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EDIT: Roy clarified that Alex couldn't handle the smokey environment in the room. A rematch can happen in the future, once Alex recovers from the smoke.
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Get_A_Grip said:
Maybe Roy "saw something" going on behind the scenes that he didn't like or appreciate. I'll leave it up to your imagination. But I'm thinking that Roy was smart.


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It’s just Alex is burned out....needs a rest and has planned to see his kids.
...he really didn’t want to play any more right now...thousands of miles driving and flying
lately.....but if they get on his case too much....he might want to do more than double the
bet when he gets back....messing with a lion can be injurious to your financial health.
 
We all have different opinions about what was discussed and what actually happened after this set, and whose side we agree with. However, one thing we can likely agree on - pro pool is a tough way to make a living now as much or more than has ever been.

We are all envious of the way these guys can play the game, and the rush they must experience when they are in action. But all things considered, how many of us would want to trade places with them and with that lifestyle, permanently?
 
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ChrisinNC said:
We all have different opinions about what was discussed and what actually happened after this set, and whose side we agree with. However, one thing we can likely agree on - pro pool is a tough way to make a living now as much or more than has ever been.

We are all envious of the way these guys can play the game, and the rush they must experience when they are in action. But all things considered, how many of us would want to trade places with them, permanently?
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Hand raised... ( But, I would have to be 20 again )
 
GideonF said:
This makes sense to me, although I’m not a gambler.

If Team Alex agree to one more race, they could spend 4 days at it and say Justin wins. Is he obliged to bet again? If not, Team Alex has just spent a week for nothing. Would Alex had been obligated to “flip it” if the race had lasted four days in the first place?

As a pure matter of interest, if they played another set and broke even in the usual staking deal would Alex get anything? What if they take the money now and play a new set in two months - does Alex get his share of the first match and have no skin in the second?
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THIS. Everybody whinging about how Justin "deserves a chance to make it back how he lost it" is ignoring the fact that it is NOT Justin's money being risked, and Alex DESERVES a payday for having travelled to a hostile locale to gamble.

Everybody knows that while Alex is going to visit his kids, Justin is gonna be practicing like a demon, so the player that Alex just played is NOT gonna be the same player that he plays when he gets back, so for all intents and purposes, it's a new set.

Alex played well to get up on Justin, so he is under no obligation whatsoever to just give it back by playing for the same amount. If Justin's team wanted to bet more in the first place, then they shooda bet fookin' more. They have their nose open, Alex's team knows it, and is obligated to take advantage of it.

Or do all you do-gooders expect that Minnesota Fats shoulda waited until Richie Florence was nice and rested before he walked in to play a few friendly games of $200-$300 One Pocket each night?
 
pt109 said:
.
...it’s a strange action situation when people get knocked for wanting to bet more.
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Sometimes it is called a 'high roll" where you know you are killing the action by being only willing to play for an amount you know he doesn't have or other times thinking your opponent will 'shake' playing for the bigger cash. Oftentimes the shake strategy fails.
 
They did J Hall and his team a favor....J Hall was and will never beat Alex on a table that tight. Alex destroyed him, and the outcome wasn't going to change no matter how many sets they played.

I watched the whole match. J Hall's game resembled his appearance....sloppy and lazy. I'm not hating on him, but he certainly didn't resemble a world class pool player in any way shape or form. Alex is in every aspect of the game.

This was a bad bet for J Hall's team...they need to pick their opponents a lot more carefully.
 
Roy posted his response on Facebook to this. Agree with the logic or not, but it seemed fine to me.

I am paraphrasing but Roy said Alex was having trouble with the smoke in there and it was wearing on him. They tried to keep people from smoking around the table but everyone knows how well that works.

As far as upping the bet, they wanted to really win something or Justin win 20k. They didn't want to have both sides walk away with nothing won playing for what could be a week if playing another ahead set and it took at least a couple more days.

Alex's camp loses quite a bit if he ends up breaking even before expenses etc traveling to Justin's home room.
 
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They should come to central Florida.

Two pool rooms with Diamond tables. Cue Phoria and Racks.

Both very nice rooms and neither allows smoking inside.
 
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