is there any significant difference in carbon fiber shafts

D

deanoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
who actually makes them
predator and who else

is there any difference in play

which one makes one to fit a schon

thank you

i tried a predator,but i can not say that i could tell much difference
i did draw the ball easily but it was a quick experiment

now i am wanting to experiment again
 
People disagree with me about this but I really don’t believe any stick spins better than another as long as you’re not dealing with a bad tip. I think people just have moments of actually stroking properly and attribute it to the stick because they’re not comfortable facing intermittent flaws in their game. It’s like yesterday when I saw a guy show his friend how to jump a ball. He makes one, misses the other then says “with this technique I can make like...uh...10 out of 10 jumps” after watching him make 1 out of 2.

I think CF is good for four things:
1) ding resistant
2) warp resistant
3) low deflection (if you’re aim is tuned to it)
4) fairly smooth


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MattPoland said:
People disagree with me about this but I really don’t believe any stick spins better than another as long as you’re not dealing with a bad tip. ...
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The carbon fiber shaft that Predator was testing in 1998 was unusable in my experience. It seemed to drag on the ball if you hit well off-center.
 
Bob Jewett said:
The carbon fiber shaft that Predator was testing in 1998 was unusable in my experience. It seemed to drag on the ball if you hit well off-center.
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I respect your thoughts. What would you say “drag on the ball” means if you were to elaborate?

On a side note, I guess my comment was for well-tested production and custom cues (CF or maple). I certainly wasn’t referring to a graphite Budweiser cue even though I bet Efren could have shot sporty with that too.


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MattPoland said:
I respect your thoughts. What would you say “drag on the ball” means if you were to elaborate?
...
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For an off-center hit the cue stick does not slow down as much and the cue ball does not have as much speed as for a centered hit. If conditions are wrong -- and I'm not sure exactly what needs to be wrong -- the cue tip can remain on the ball too long. I think that this is not a problem for anything close to a modern cue stick, but Coriolis has a warning in his book (1835) about extreme spin shots and that prototype carbon fiber cue was the only time I've seen a possible case of "the drags".
 
Bob Jewett said:
For an off-center hit the cue stick does not slow down as much and the cue ball does not have as much speed as for a centered hit. If conditions are wrong -- and I'm not sure exactly what needs to be wrong -- the cue tip can remain on the ball too long. I think that this is not a problem for anything close to a modern cue stick, but Coriolis has a warning in his book (1835) about extreme spin shots and that prototype carbon fiber cue was the only time I've seen a possible case of "the drags".
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How can the cue "remain on the ball" any longer?
 
HawaiianEye said:
How can the cue "remain on the ball" any longer?
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The tip is on the ball longer for a spin shot than a center-ball shot. That's partly because the stick is slowed less and partly because the cue ball is not going to move forward as fast. At the extreme of that the side of the tip ends up on the ball like a miscue. This doesn't seem to happen for normal modern cues and tips.
 
Bob Jewett said:
The tip is on the ball longer for a spin shot than a center-ball shot. That's partly because the stick is slowed less and partly because the cue ball is not going to move forward as fast. At the extreme of that the side of the tip ends up on the ball like a miscue. This doesn't seem to happen for normal modern cues and tips.
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I wonder if you’re describing shafts with too little mass (at the tip end and perhaps overall). I could see early CF prototypes (no foam?) having these problems.


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You won't like them Deano.
You're used to great hitting maple shafts .
The ones that ping and give you a lot of feedback.
You know, the ones that tell your grip hand if you hit the cue ball right or wrong .
 
JoeyInCali said:
You won't like them Deano.
You're used to great hitting maple shafts .
The ones that ping and give you a lot of feedback.
You know, the ones that tell your grip hand if you hit the cue ball right or wrong .
Click to expand...

The Becue has great feel to me.

I, also, think it has a more "solid" hit than a lot of high dollar maple shafts.
 
deanoc said:
who actually makes them
predator and who else

is there any difference in play

which one makes one to fit a schon

thank you

i tried a predator,but i can not say that i could tell much difference
i did draw the ball easily but it was a quick experiment

now i am wanting to experiment again
Click to expand...


I wish I was brave eneogh to try this on a Revo but the truth is. I'm not.
*Unisert*

IMG_20181022_013220.jpg
IMG_20181022_013233.jpg
IMG_20181022_013244.jpg
 
JoeyInCali said:
You won't like them Deano.
You're used to great hitting maple shafts .
The ones that ping and give you a lot of feedback.
You know, the ones that tell your grip hand if you hit the cue ball right or wrong .
Click to expand...

As much as I love cues that have great feedback (and keep up the good work Joey) I have to disagree here. You can tell even from the deadest cue if you hit a ball good or bad if are you practicing right and you pay attention to what you are doing. It just feels f**king omg-why-am-i-accepting-this-shit horrible that's all haha..

but yea its hard to see why anyone would want to switch from nice hitting maple unless the new setup can help you win games to pay for more nice cues down the road... most people i know who are used to great hitting cues find it hard to accept anything less when it comes to feedback
 
deanoc said:
who actually makes them
predator and who else

is there any difference in play

which one makes one to fit a schon

thank you

i tried a predator,but i can not say that i could tell much difference
i did draw the ball easily but it was a quick experiment

now i am wanting to experiment again
Click to expand...

It`s not on the market yet, but Mezz is soon to release their own "Ignite" carbon fiber shaft with a 12.2mm shaft diameter.
Mezz have two joint pins: Wavy and United Joint, wich is a 5/16-14 pin, so it should work fine with Schon.
I haven`t tried the shaft yet, so I don`t know how it plays, hopefully it has more feel and feedback than Revo does.
 
JoeyInCali said:
A hollowed carbon fiber with foam inside has better feel than a "solid" high dollar shaft ?
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Hit is subjective.

There is a doctor here who comes in on Sundays, sometimes, and he has a cue made by you.

He is constantly asking about my Becue and trying it out.

To me, the Becue hits WAY better than his cue made by you.

I'm not saying that somebody else may not like the hit of your cue better, but there is no way I would trade the Becue for his cue made by you. The shaft on the cue made by you is super nice and smooth, but the difference in their "hits" is night and day.
 
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Bob Jewett said:
The tip is on the ball longer for a spin shot than a center-ball shot. That's partly because the stick is slowed less and partly because the cue ball is not going to move forward as fast. At the extreme of that the side of the tip ends up on the ball like a miscue. This doesn't seem to happen for normal modern cues and tips.
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I tested a prototype carbon-fiber shaft many years ago (with high-speed video), where the stiffness of the shaft contributed to this problem. The shaft did not deflect away from the ball enough and it returned too quickly creating a double hit with more CB deflection than expected. The hit seemed good in real-time (except for the bad CB direction), but the effect was clear in super slow motion (unfortunately, I didn't keep or post this video). I have not experienced this with any of my testing with either the Revo or the new Cuetec carbon fiber shafts.

Here's a pertinent quote from the maximum english resource page:

When using a very heavy and/or stiff cue, the maximum tip offset (and maximum spin) possible with a good hit can be more limiting than normal. As shown in the plots on pages 7 and 8 in TP A.30, with a hit close to the miscue limit, the CB might not separate from the tip fast enough. Also, with a stiff shaft (e.g., a carbon fiber shaft) the end of the cue won't deflect away from the ball as much as normal and will tend to flex back toward the CB faster (see cue vibration for video illustrations). These effects can result in a double hit or push that might not even be directly noticeable; although, the CB will squirt more than expected (as with a miscue shot). The 2nd-to-last shot (before the miscue) in HSV A.106 visually shows how close the tip can come to a double hit even with a typical-weight LD shaft, which is not very stiff. For more info on this topic, see "Coriolis was brilliant ... but he didn't have a high-speed camera - Part IV: maximum cue tip offset" (BD, October, 2005).


Regards,
Dave
 
I like stiff ,biliard taper heavy maple shafts
it seems like the cue ball his where i am looking

pro taper throws the cue ball unpredictably
the old maple stiff,also draws the ball more consistently

i honestly think the whole thing is hype

same for golf,when all is said and done steel shafts and muscle back irons are what top player usually play

i preferred them myself when i was playing

forgiveness this ,high tech that

true top players might play lighter shafts on their driver but that is to get lighter,thus longer,thus higher speed
in pool we don't need any of that
 
deanoc said:
I like stiff ,biliard taper heavy maple shafts
it seems like the cue ball his where i am looking

pro taper throws the cue ball unpredictably
the old maple stiff,also draws the ball more consistently

i honestly think the whole thing is hype

same for golf,when all is said and done steel shafts and muscle back irons are what top player usually play

i preferred them myself when i was playing

forgiveness this ,high tech that

true top players might play lighter shafts on their driver but that is to get lighter,thus longer,thus higher speed
in pool we don't need any of that
Click to expand...

That may be all true however however unless your a pro hitting a muscle back iron is a bad choice of clubs it's a ego thing , much better clubs to hit for players outside low single didget handicaps

1
 
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