Earl banned by Pat?

[kkdanamatt]

what does it mean that he "made a good hit and unsuccessfully pocketed a ball"?

I've seen Earl use a jump cue before and as you noted, he seemed reluctant but went ahead anyway.

My biggest issue is when a guy forfeits a match he is disregarding all who may have action on the match. It's grossly unfair to fans watching and anyone betting on it.

best,
brian kc

I agree. A woman approached me while the Earl/Niels match was in progress.
She traveled all the way from California and told me that Earl was her favorite player.
She bought a ticket, entered the Tournament Room, and shortly after that, Earl forfeited.

Regarding Earl's jump shot:
Forgive my poor choice of words....he successfully jumped, then hit the 6-ball and pocketed the 6-ball in an unintended pocket.
In other words, he lucked it in.

My point is that Earl ridicules other players for using the jump cue, but when he really, really needs it, he uses it himself.

 

[cardiac kid]

As an aside, my belief is Joe Rogan does a better Earl than Earl. How strong is that?

Lyn

 

[sjm]

My point is that Earl ridicules other players for using the jump cue, but when he really, really needs it, he uses it himself.

Note also that Earl Strickland and Sammy Jones were, in the eyes of many, the first players to make significant use of the jump shot in nine ball. Earl liked jump shots when he and just a few others could execute it, but now everyone can, he feels differently. There's some irony here.

 

[ShortBusRuss]

Note also that Earl Strickland and Sammy Jones were, in the eyes of many, the first players to make significant use of the jump shot in nine ball. Earl liked jump shots when he and just a few others could execute it, but now everyone can, he feels differently. There's some irony here.

Earl could jump with a full cue, which was MUCH harder to execute than with a jump cue. It's kind of a difference of a couple hundred practice hours between the two.

No irony here, sir. Just misinformed people.

Earl is quite justified in feeling a little persecuted by the changes in pool. Lots of changes closed the gap between him and the field, making a lot of skill shots much easier than they should be.

 

[sjm]

Earl could jump with a full cue, which was MUCH harder to execute than with a jump cue. It's kind of a difference of a couple hundred practice hours between the two.

No irony here, sir. Just misinformed people.

Earl is quite justified in feeling a little persecuted by the changes in pool. Lots of changes closed the gap between him and the field, making a lot of skill shots much easier than they should be.

Yes, I know as I was around then watching it happen.

... but the fact remains that the full cue jumps that were popularized by Earl and Sammy piqued the interest of players in jumping in general, and that it led to experimentation by many, Pat Fleming among them, with a lot of different types of cues to see what kind of cue jumped best. This was the beginning of the process that eventually led to the jump cue being added to our game. Yes, that's ironic.

There is probably nobody on this forum that hates the jump cue more than me, but to suggest that the first few full cue jumpers aren't in any way responsible for what came next in jumping is, in my opinion, mistaken. It is, however, a matter of opinion, and you are certainly entitled to yours.

Interesting comment you make about the ways in which the gap between the best and the rest has narrowed. I once discussed the matter with none other than Mike Sigel. He felt that the greatest gap narrower of them all was the switch to Simonis cloth from the slower cloths. Guys like Sigel, Strickland and the others with the really powerful strokes had a much bigger advantage in nine ball on the old cloth. Mike's comment, which I'll never forget, was that when Simonis came along "all of a sudden, a lot of guys played like me!"

 

[jay helfert]

Earl could jump with a full cue, which was MUCH harder to execute than with a jump cue. It's kind of a difference of a couple hundred practice hours between the two.

No irony here, sir. Just misinformed people.

Earl is quite justified in feeling a little persecuted by the changes in pool. Lots of changes closed the gap between him and the field, making a lot of skill shots much easier than they should be.

Russ, the biggest change I've seen in Earl's game over the last ten years or so is that now he fails to get out quite frequently with open racks, either missing balls or getting way out of line, sometimes even hooking himself. He never strings racks anymore, like he used to do in his heyday. Bottom line, he is just not the player he once was, not even close. This has nothing to do with any rule changes and it has everything to do with his diminished skills. He went being from a dominant player to just another journeyman. I'm sure that may cause some frustration as well, knowing how vulnerable he is with every shortstop he comes up against.

 

[ShortBusRuss]

Yes, I know as I was around then watching it happen.

... but the fact remains that the full cue jumps that were popularized by Earl and Sammy piqued the interest of players in jumping in general, and that it led to experimentation by many, Pat Fleming among them, with a lot of different types of cues to see what kind of cue jumped best. This was the beginning of the process that eventually led to the jump cue being added to our game. Yes, that's ironic.

There is probably nobody on this forum that hates the jump cue more than me, but to suggest that the first few full cue jumpers aren't in any way responsible for what came next in jumping is, in my opinion, mistaken. It is, however, a matter of opinion, and you are certainly entitled to yours.

And jump cues were also banned in most big tournaments of that era, as well. It's not the jump cue itself that allowed the field to catch up. It was tournament promoters allowing the use of them.

And that likely came by way of sponsorships (aka "bribes") by companies selling newfangled jump cues. After all.. Tournament promoters would probably allow laser-guided cues if they could sell advertising space to the companies selling them. They don't necessarily always care about what's best for the sport. The entire reason the magic rack gets used at so many tournaments is because it speeds up the play SO much. And who gives a sh!t if the best players actually win, right?

 

[ShortBusRuss]

Russ, the biggest change I've seen in Earl's game over the last ten years or so is that now he fails to get out quite frequently with open racks, either missing balls or getting way out of line, sometimes even hooking himself. He never strings racks anymore, like he used to do in his heyday. Bottom line, he is just not the player he once was, not even close. This has nothing to do with any rule changes and it has everything to do with his diminished skills. He went being from a dominant player to just another journeyman. I'm sure that may cause some frustration as well, knowing how vulnerable he is with every shortstop he comes up against.

Point taken. I personally think, though, that Earl failing to get out as frequently has a lot more to do with his poor mindset than his failing ability. I've watched matches where it is obvious his concentration is lacking, and he lets slightly poor position get in his head. Both of these things are mental issues, and not physical.

 

[sjm]

And jump cues were also banned in most big tournaments of that era, as well. It's not the jump cue itself that allowed the field to catch up. It was tournament promoters allowing the use of them.

Agreed 100%. Tourney producers could have and should have nipped it in the bud back then but didn't. Unfortunately, the view came to be that the jump shot made the game more exciting for the fans, which is why jump cues gradually came into vogue.

 

[Grilled Cheese]

Yes, I know as I was around then watching it happen.

... but the fact remains that the full cue jumps that were popularized by Earl and Sammy piqued the interest of players in jumping in general, and that it led to experimentation by many, Pat Fleming among them, with a lot of different types of cues to see what kind of cue jumped best. This was the beginning of the process that eventually led to the jump cue being added to our game. Yes, that's ironic.

There is probably nobody on this forum that hates the jump cue more than me, but to suggest that the first few full cue jumpers aren't in any way responsible for what came next in jumping is, in my opinion, mistaken. It is, however, a matter of opinion, and you are certainly entitled to yours.

Interesting comment you make about the ways in which the gap between the best and the rest has narrowed. I once discussed the matter with none other than Mike Sigel. He felt that the greatest gap narrower of them all was the switch to Simonis cloth from the slower cloths. Guys like Sigel, Strickland and the others with the really powerful strokes had a much bigger advantage in nine ball on the old cloth. Mike's comment, which I'll never forget, was that when Simonis came along "all of a sudden, a lot of guys played like me!"

Yeah, that's why Mike chose that garbage Gorina shag carpet for the IPT back then.

There is truth to what he said. By the way, I got the same speech about cloth from Mike at the tournament.

Sadly for Mike, that cloth hindered his game much more than it did the stronger players. But his experiment and statements proved true.


The players with serious strokes were able to cope with it. Many players that were great on Simonis, did not play or look so great in the IPT. There was a lot of struggling.

The women players LOL....Not sure I even want to get into it. Not only did they have to face male players which was an uphill battle to say the least, on that cloth and with the Diamond Pro Cut pockets they looked like APA 6's out there. It was awful.


Earl doesn't hate jumping. He just thinks it is sissy and weak to jump with a jump cue. Since he learned and can execute with a full size cue. "Cheater stick" he called it on many occasions.

Earl has used short jump cue before. Maybe because he didn't want to be at a disadvantage. I doubt he's being a hypocrite about it. You can hate something all you want, but hating it doesn't change the fact that others are capitalizing using it against you.

Going back to my long winded post about Earl's perspectives...it ties in perfectly. He just looks down on any kind of weakness shown by people playing in the pro realm. He loses any respect for them. And he is instantly triggered when they show cockiness and pride, as well as satisfaction after doing something cheap or lucky. In a way, I kinda agree with him. If you are an honorable player, at that high level you shouldn't feel good about a lucky roll, a slopped ball, or rack mechanics. You should realize that is a crutch or fluke and has no real GLORY. True glory and accomplishment is winning in a way which is fully earned and controlled. Certainly accept it as the rules of the game are the rules, but don't gloat about it or take too much credit.

I don't play at that level or anywhere near it, and I was always humble about a win that came with some favorable rolls or situations. No fist pumps, no howls or screams. Be gracious.

 

[jrctherake]

Yeah, they even caught the a-hole's behavior on video from the match:

https://www.facebook.com/100001863545081/videos/2302720923133337/

That is quite the professional. The best is the spineless ( I presume tournament director in the navy windbreaker?) who he keeps barking at to come over and shark the kid yet the guy does nothing about this fool's behavior.

Now lets see all his moronic defenders cry poor poor Earl :boring2::boring:

Had a very good friend that was there. He told me that Earl was out of line from the tournament onset. He also told me that the short fellow that walked over to him and two others provoked Earl every chance they got.

I agree, Earl is getting worse but, the instigators know that as well.

Kind of like in boxing, if I know your ribs are bruised..... that's my target.

Well, they in their on way did shark him to a certain degree.

Here's the thing, they shark Earl ONCE FOR 5 SECONDS and it effects Earl's ENTIRE match. He's got to a point where he just can't let it go.

Such a huge loss of talent.

Feeling sorry for Earl? Nope, no more than I would feel sorry for a cripple without a wheelchair but still expected to be mobile.

I know your not an Earl fan. You know what, this isn't about Earl, it's about having empathy for the sport and moreso for a man with an illness.....Earl.

Takes a big a55hat to do what he does 8f no illness. Takes even bigger a55hat to prod and poke a known mental illness sufferer to explode!!!!

 

[Grilled Cheese]

I agree. His mental state impacts his game negatively.

Efren has been recognized as having incredible longevity. Playing at that high level at the age that he did.

I believe Earl could have done the same, maybe better - but so far he hasn't and isn't likely to. I don't attribute this to anything physical. All these contraptions he uses are in his head. It's his head game that's let him down. Not his arm. Even if he is suffering something physical, his stroke is still better than so many out there. In other words, he's got a "surplus" of stroke. It doesn't take that much stroke to win big.

But as you said, he can't let go. Once he is derailed, that's it. He can't let go like a pit bull on a pork chop won't let go. Fixated.


Doesn't matter. Earl does deserve a pass. He's earned it. No one will remember his antics recently. But they will remember his 5 time US Open wins and 3 time WPA wins....among all the others. He is the greatest 9 ball player of all time.

Besides, he does have an illness that he himself admits. While he shouldn't gain an advantage for that, pool world should be sympathetic. Unfortunately, the pool world is filled with scumbags.

 

[Island Drive]

Yeah, that's why Mike chose that garbage Gorina shag carpet for the IPT back then.

Going back to my long winded post about Earl's perspectives...it ties in perfectly. He just looks down on any kind of weakness shown by people playing in the pro realm. He loses any respect for them. And he is instantly triggered when they show cockiness and pride, as well as satisfaction after doing something cheap or lucky. In a way, I kinda agree with him. If you are an honorable player, at that high level you shouldn't feel good about a lucky roll, a slopped ball, or rack mechanics. You should realize that is a crutch or fluke and has no real GLORY. True glory and accomplishment is winning in a way which is fully earned and controlled. Certainly accept it as the rules of the game are the rules, but don't gloat about it or take too much credit.

With the lack of money in the game, the behavior of gamblers/pool players living day to day, often becomes one in the same. It does tho create ''action''. As pool players love to ''shut up'' another who's actions or words exude arrogance and Ego.

I heard the American players talking about another European players "outward actions''. 2017 US Open 9 ball.

This type of doggie/dog scene is common in all competitions. Many of us wanna be the guy, to ''shut em up''.

Stick It .

 

[KRJ]

There are many niche sports and I attend events in more than a few of them. It is in pool alone that I've experienced competitors walking out in the middle of a match or competition. Asking me to accept it is unreasonable. I'd like pool players to show greater respect for the game, its sponsors and its fans.

I reject the suggestion that pool pros conduct themselves comparably to pros in other niche sports in America. It is not consistent with my vast experience around niche sports.

Accepting pool as a niche sport doesn't require accepting the rampant unprofessionalism found in the sport as both reasonable and expected. In America, the issue is not that pool is a niche sport, but instead that is a sport consisting almost entirely of independent events and no governing body. Conducting oneself with a lack of professionalism has virtually no consequences in today's American pro scene. Betcha it's different in badminton!

Yes, agreed, if only all people acted better, but it's never going to happen. heck, there are folks asking for other folks to attack or "push out" folks from restaurants because they don't have the same political beliefs.

Niche sport or not, pool players still act better then the NFL as a whole. A couple of high strung pool players is the least of our worries, it really is.

 

[Black-Balled]

Yes, agreed, if only all people acted better, but it's never going to happen. heck, there are folks asking for other folks to attack or "push out" folks from restaurants because they don't have the same political beliefs.

Niche sport or not, pool players still act better then the NFL as a whole. A couple of high strung pool players is the least of our worries, it really is.

That's kind of a- throw your hands in the air and give up- stance, no?

Nobody is contending earl is responsible for anyone else's behavior...only his own.

 

[chefjeff]

That's kind of a- throw your hands in the air and give up- stance, no?

Nobody is contending earl is responsible for anyone else's behavior...only his own.

Black balled, you've changed your posting style for the better lately.

Isn't it about time you went to being partisan hack and jump into all these political discussions with vigor, anger, and narcissistic ramblings?

lol...I'm kidding!

Now Earl's thread has gone political....What you got in that case there? Doom.



Jeff Livingston

 

[Runner]

Russ, the biggest change I've seen in Earl's game over the last ten years or so is that now he fails to get out quite frequently with open racks, either missing balls or getting way out of line, sometimes even hooking himself. He never strings racks anymore, like he used to do in his heyday. Bottom line, he is just not the player he once was, not even close. This has nothing to do with any rule changes and it has everything to do with his diminished skills. He went being from a dominant player to just another journeyman. I'm sure that may cause some frustration as well, knowing how vulnerable he is with every shortstop he comes up against.

Tap, tap... that's probably the root cause, right there.

I remember watching Earl string racks together in minutes, winner breaks,
just crush the break, out, out. Beating Varner 9-0.

Now, he's facing some kid who has the eyes and determination he once
had.. getting frustrated that he can't do what he used to do.

"A man's got to know his limitations"

 

[alstl]

For those claiming Earl is destroying the reputation of pool because he talks I would point out a pool player was inducted into the HOF a few years ago who is the pool world's equivalent of Bernie Madoff. His fame derived from hustling unsuspecting victims out of their cash. In the pool world that made him a beloved figure.

Earl's talking is destroying pool's reputation. That's comical.

 

[Black-Balled]

For those claiming Earl is destroying the reputation of pool because he talks I would point out a pool player was inducted into the HOF a few years ago who is the pool world's equivalent of Bernie Madoff. His fame derived from hustling unsuspecting victims out of their cash. In the pool world that made him a beloved figure.

Earl's talking is destroying pool's reputation. That's comical.

Did someone say destroying here, other than you?

How about 'contributing'? Is that acceptable?

 

[Black-Balled]

Fake news!!!!

Black balled, you've changed your posting style for the better lately.

Isn't it about time you went to being partisan hack and jump into all these political discussions with vigor, anger, and narcissistic ramblings?

lol...I'm kidding!

Now Earl's thread has gone political....What you got in that case there? Doom.



Jeff Livingston