My favorite referee moment

Bob Jewett said:
Anyone who uses inside english on that shot should be remanded into the custody of adult supervision for their own protection. Or, he was dumping.
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You forgot the smiley :-) Maybe you missed seeing the 8 hanging in the pocket, and falling in? I like his shot, almost no way anything bad can happen - except what happened.

But anyway, what's the correct ruling there? Replace the balls and shoot it again? [ Sounds like it, thanks Jay. ]
 
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freds said:
You forgot the smiley :-) Maybe you missed seeing the 8 hanging in the pocket, and falling in? I like his shot, almost no way anything bad can happen - except what happened.

But anyway, what's the correct ruling there? Replace the balls and shoot it again?
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Bingo, see my post #60.
 
jay helfert said:
That's a weird one requiring a bit of good judgement. First of all the eight ball must be replaced. I would then ask for the players help in relocating the cue ball and the seven ball, and recreating the shot in question. That's the ruling I would make in the interest of "fair play."

The first thing I would say to both of them is that the eight ball must be restored! They would both now know that I was not going to call a foul and give the opponent BIH. That was not open for discussion. Now they only needed to assist me in recreating the previous shot. I would then ask the players to help me relocate the balls. I have been involved with similar situations in the past and both players became very helpful and co-operative in recreating the proper shot. It might turn out to be a tad more difficult shot then before to get both players to agree, but so be it. In making a ruling like you must be decisive and firm. Any hesitation on the part of the referee will open a can of worms that might take a long time to resolve.
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I think that 100% would be the right, and only fair, call to make in that situation. I just hope nothing like that ever happens to me in a competitive match because even if the most fair ruling is made someone will probably be pissed.
 
StraightPoolIU said:
I think that 100% would be the right, and only fair, call to make in that situation. I just hope nothing like that ever happens to me in a competitive match because even if the most fair ruling is made someone will probably be pissed.
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The one closest to that I remember, happened in a match with Steve Mizerak shooting. He was leaning over the table to shoot at a ball hanging in the pocket. Just as he shot the ball fell in and the cue ball followed it into the pocket. His opponent yelled "Foul!"

I stood still for a moment to collect myself, and then went over and took the two balls out of the pocket. Over the objections of the other player I placed the object ball on the lip of the pocket and replaced the cue ball as close as possible to where it had been before. I told Mizerak to shoot again. The other player held that ruling against me for a long time, saying that Mizerak's weight on the table made the ball fall. I never bought that explanation and told him so. It was several years before he would talk to me again.
 
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sjm said:
This also occurred at the US Open in what I believe to have been 2016 in a match between Dennis Grabe and Mike Dechaine, two pretty tough customers as we all know. I think, but am not certain, that the score was 8-5, with Grabe ahead in the race to 11. Grabe had racked his own and left the template hanging over the bottom rail. Grabe was in the process of running out and made a superb shot on the five ball, but the cue ball hit the overhanging template.

After Mike called a ref, our own Bob Jewett made the ruling, and it was judged a foul. The momentum in the match seemed to turn at this moment and Dechaine went on to run the next three racks and win.

I had no idea that hitting the overhanging template was a foul until that day, as it can be easily argued that hitting it has no effect on the path or speed of the cue ball. Seems a silly rule to me, but I guess the rules are the rules.
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Stu, I was the ref for that match, and although I didn't see the foul, I asked the audience, and you in particular, to explain to me what occurred. You and others in the audience agreed that the cue ball touched the Accu-Rack. I ruled in Dechaine's favor and Denis Grabe called me all sorts of names... "an old stupid man" was the most complementary. Grabe posted on FaceBook that I ruled against him because I'm an American and the audience were primarily Americans. Grabe and Dechaine were both rack mechanics during that match and that was one of the reasons that I insisted that the refs rack every match at the International 9-Ball last year. By the way, Grabe later apologized to me and now we're friends on FB.
 
$TAKE HOR$E said:
I was in Olathe a few years ago at a big tournament, 100+ players. There were a few situations came up, but the most memorable was when two players were playing a match well into the tournament and I believe one made shot where the cue ball really had to take a ride around the table. He will be player A and his opponent player B. After the cue ball was struck and while it was still moving, player A inadvertently hit a ball that might have been in the cueballs path. Both players were top tier in the tournament, player B calls a foul and player A disagrees, if for no other reason than there was no ref around. It was a freak shot that no one would have ever called a ref to watch anyway. Player B goes clear across the poolroom and outside the building and brings the TD back and describes what happened, at least his take on it. Player A disagrees and without much dispute the TD picks the cueball up and hands it to player B. Maybe it was a foul and maybe it wasnt...but the TD was dead in the wrong.

Maybe someone like Jay can chime in on that ruling

Only reason I remember is because I dogged it not buying Skylar back then for a handful of magic beans and he won the damn thing :withstupid:
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I was there playing a few tables down when the shot in question came up. The issue was that an object ball was moved after the cue ball was struck. The match was close. The question was whether the cue ball would have come in contact with the moved ball. The TD asked what happened from both players and it wasn't disputed that the cue ball came towards the moved object ball. It wasn't a bad call because the player did move the object ball and it was fairly close to where the cue ball was coming. Would have it hit where the object ball would have been? I didn't think so but moving the object ball opened up player b to a foul.

An interesting side note, I was again playing later when the player b had been drinking a bit for the rest of the day and lost in the losers side. They decided to go after the TD physically and had to be held back. It was quite a sight.
 
dardusm said:
I was there playing a few tables down when the shot in question came up. The issue was that an object ball was moved after the cue ball was struck. The match was close. The question was whether the cue ball would have come in contact with the moved ball. The TD asked what happened from both players and it wasn't disputed that the cue ball came towards the moved object ball. It wasn't a bad call because the player did move the object ball and it was fairly close to where the cue ball was coming. Would have it hit where the object ball would have been? I didn't think so but moving the object ball opened up player b to a foul.

An interesting side note, I was again playing later when the player b had been drinking a bit for the rest of the day and lost in the losers side. They decided to go after the TD physically and had to be held back. It was quite a sight.
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this isn't even an odd situation-Ive seen it called a million times in tournies and gambling alike. It is always a foul if the CB path was anywhere near the accidentally moved ball.
 
Jay you probably remember the match with Jeff Carter and Benny Conway ,Benny refuses to break hill hill.They were playing opponent racks.Balls are clearly not on the spot after several minutes i tell Jeff to put them on the spot he says you rack the************. Yep you all can figure what happened after i racked. Jeff still hasnt sent me a xmas card .
 
Rico said:
Jay you probably remember the match with Jeff Carter and Benny Conway ,Benny refuses to break hill hill.They were playing opponent racks.Balls are clearly not on the spot after several minutes i tell Jeff to put them on the spot he says you rack the************. Yep you all can figure what happened after i racked. Jeff still hasnt sent me a xmas card .
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Ha Ha. I seem to remember that stalemate between Jeff and Benny. I'm glad I wasn't ref'ing that one.

I would say the majority of the problems I encountered while officiating pool matches revolved around racking the balls. Using the template has resolved a lot of that, and it's a very good thing imo.
 
From WPA rule 1.7 Balls Settling: "If a settling ball falls into a pocket during or just prior to a shot, and this has an effect on the shot, the referee will restore the position and the shot will be replayed. The shooter is not penalized for shooting while a ball is settling. See also 8.3 Ball Pocketed."

and from 8.3 Ball Pocketed: "If a ball stops near the edge of a pocket, and remains apparently motionless for five seconds, it is not considered pocketed if it later falls into the pocket by itself."
 
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