My favorite referee moment

Bob Jewett said:
The rule book defines a list of fouls. That is not a foul, unless you get very, very creative in the unsportsmanlike conduct section.

The player gained no advantage by the cue ball falling into the pocket and it probably was not his intent. The table could be blamed -- perhaps the slate had been beveled by the pocket.
Click to expand...

I doubt that such an event is even mentioned in the rule book, one way or the other. There are some instances when you must make a judgement call and I did. The ball had been placed on the table and was now in play. Then he knocked it into the pocket with the shaft of this cue while he was lining up to shoot.
 
jay helfert said:
I doubt that such an event is even mentioned in the rule book, one way or the other. There are some instances when you must make a judgement call and I did. The ball had been placed on the table and was now in play. Then he knocked it into the pocket with the shaft of this cue while he was lining up to shoot.
Click to expand...

That sounds like a scenario that would be good to cover in a "decisions" sections of the rules if such a thing existed. I think possibly CSI used to have a decisions companion piece to their rules to cover these strange one-off type scenarios similar to what exists under the rules of golf.
 
jay helfert said:
I don't how many times I watched a player go to the table with a piece of chalk sitting precariously on the cushion and he totally ignores it. Usually nothing happens, but the fact that they would leave it dangling there is a big mistake in my book.
Click to expand...

I cannot count how many times I've seen players pick up a template rack and set it on one of the rails with the point hanging over the side into the playing area.

I actually saw a cue ball hit one of these racks in the above scenario and nobody called anything.

Maniac
 
The scene:
1992, Roosevelt Hotel, NYC.
US Open 14.1 Straight Pool Semi-Finals between Mike Zuglan and Dallas West.
Mosconi and Caras are sitting as VIP's in the front row.
I was the referee in my tuxedo.
Zuglan is on a run of 148, and I call out "playing for two".
There are only two balls left on the table and they are almost frozen and lined up toward the upper left hand pocket, but I see that the combo CAN'T GO.
Zuglan calls the combo (I think it was the 5-ball?), but I call, somewhat under my breath, "safety." Naturally, Mike misses the shot and the run ended at 148, but soon after he ran two balls and won the match.
After the match was over, I asked Mike, "Why did you call the 5-ball? It couldn't go".
Zuglan's reply is classic: "I'm on a 148-ball run in front of Willie Mosconi and Jimmy Caras. You think I'm gonna play safe?"
By the way, in his match before this one, Zuglan played Sigel.
Sigel won the lag.
Zuglan broke.
Sigel ran 150 and out.
Zuglan says, "I guess I need more practice on the lag."
I always enjoyed refereeing Zuglan's matches because he never called for the bridge.
His wingspan is enormous.
 
Bob Jewett said:
The rule book defines a list of fouls. That is not a foul, unless you get very, very creative in the unsportsmanlike conduct section.

The player gained no advantage by the cue ball falling into the pocket and it probably was not his intent. The table could be blamed -- perhaps the slate had been beveled by the pocket.
Click to expand...

I bet $200 once that dropping the ball in the pocket when BIH was a foul....
...a certain ref was to decide the bet...I’d already told the guy how this ref had ruled.
...so we got hold of the ref....and I won the bet.

A few years later.....I mentioned it to the same ref...he’d changed his mind,,,
...so I figure if I ever see that guy again, I should declare it a push....
..however, I won’t have to give back the $200.....
...’cause he never did pay me...:)
 
Last edited:
Maniac said:
I cannot count how many times I've seen players pick up a template rack and set it on one of the rails with the point hanging over the side into the playing area.

I actually saw a cue ball hit one of these racks in the above scenario and nobody called anything.

Maniac
Click to expand...

This also occurred at the US Open in what I believe to have been 2016 in a match between Dennis Grabe and Mike Dechaine, two pretty tough customers as we all know. I think, but am not certain, that the score was 8-5, with Grabe ahead in the race to 11. Grabe had racked his own and left the template hanging over the bottom rail. Grabe was in the process of running out and made a superb shot on the five ball, but the cue ball hit the overhanging template.

After Mike called a ref, our own Bob Jewett made the ruling, and it was judged a foul. The momentum in the match seemed to turn at this moment and Dechaine went on to run the next three racks and win.

I had no idea that hitting the overhanging template was a foul until that day, as it can be easily argued that hitting it has no effect on the path or speed of the cue ball. Seems a silly rule to me, but I guess the rules are the rules.
 
Last edited:
ShortBusRuss said:
By definition, if you watched this on video.. they had video... :-D
Click to expand...

if you read what i wrote, genius, maybe you'd grasp what i meant. or maybe not.

"can't remember who was playing, but in a 14.1 match that's on video, Ken Shuman picked up the break ball when racking for a final some years back. they of course didn't have video like in the snooker match with Michaela..."

ie, video Replay, as commonly used for re-spotting balls in snooker, exactly as in the match with Michaela. hence the use of the word "like".
 
Last edited:
Maniac said:
I cannot count how many times I've seen players pick up a template rack and set it on one of the rails with the point hanging over the side into the playing area.

I actually saw a cue ball hit one of these racks in the above scenario and nobody called anything.

Maniac
Click to expand...

This should be called a foul and yes I've seen the same thing as you and wondered why the player didn't remove the template.
 
StraightPoolIU said:
That sounds like a scenario that would be good to cover in a "decisions" sections of the rules if such a thing existed. I think possibly CSI used to have a decisions companion piece to their rules to cover these strange one-off type scenarios similar to what exists under the rules of golf.
Click to expand...

A "decision" is another name for making a judgement call, which I've had to do more than a few times. Strange things can happen during a pool match, including outside interference (a player being bumped) and someone inadvertently moving the balls while the players are on a break. There have been more than one time I had them re-rack and start the game over when something happened that we could not correct.
 
I guess under the CSI rules they are called "applied rulings" rather than "decisions", but they serve the same purpose, to codify some of the judgment calls that have come up from time to time. I think it's a good idea.

Here is there "applied ruling" for dropping a ball in hand into a pocket: (I'm not sure if I agree or not, but this is their ruling.)

1. Situation: Player A, with ball in hand, drops the cue ball into a pocket or knocks it into
a pocket before executing a stroke.
Ruling: Player A still has ball in hand

https://www.playcsipool.com/bcapl-rules.html
 
sjm said:
This also occurred at the US Open in what I believe to have been 2016 in a match between Dennis Grabe and Mike Dechaine, ...

(snip)

I had no idea that hitting the overhanging template was a foul until that day, as it can be easily argued that hitting it has no effect on the path or speed of the cue ball. Seems a silly rule to me, but I guess the rules are the rules.
Click to expand...

Similarly, at the US Open 8-ball and 10-ball events this past year, we (George Teyechea and I) commented several times how certain players seemed top purposefully hang the template partially onto the playing surface. We both agreed that touching the template with the cueball would be a foul.


Freddie <~~~ didn't have to call it
 
sjm said:
This also occurred at the US Open in what I believe to have been 2016 in a match between Dennis Grabe and Mike Dechaine, two pretty tough customers as we all know. I think, but am not certain, that the score was 8-5, with Grabe ahead in the race to 11. Grabe had racked his own and left the template hanging over the bottom rail. Grabe was in the process of running out and made a superb shot on the five ball, but the cue ball hit the overhanging template.

After Mike called a ref, our own Bob Jewett made the ruling, and it was judged a foul. The momentum in the match seemed to turn at this moment and Dechaine went on to run the next three racks and win.

I had no idea that hitting the overhanging template was a foul until that day, as it can be easily argued that hitting it has no effect on the path or speed of the cue ball. Seems a silly rule to me, but I guess the rules are the rules.
Click to expand...

Nobody deserves a cold roll like this any more than Denis Grabe.

Saw him play live in the Leende, NL Eurotour stop against Shane McMinn and he was the biggest tool I have ever seen near a pool table. Immediately started in on Shane before they had even broke the first rack, saying Shane was racking him and mentioned, "Oh, yeah, give me a bad rack, that is how all you Americans do it". Shane seemed to be completely shocked by his behavior, and offered to let Grabe rack for both of them. I piped up with "He's just trying to get in your head, Shane, don't let it get to you.."

Fortunately, Shane beat him. And to this day, I will cheer for every loss Denis Grabe ever takes, to the end of my days. Shoot, I will actually go out of my way to watch his live matches just in HOPES of seeing him lose.

Oh, and Bob... I owe you an ice cream at Derby just for a good call that cost that pr!ck Grabe a match.
 
Last edited:
Cornerman said:
Similarly, at the US Open 8-ball and 10-ball events this past year, we (George Teyechea and I) commented several times how certain players seemed top purposefully hang the template partially onto the playing surface. We both agreed that touching the template with the cueball would be a foul.


Freddie <~~~ didn't have to call it
Click to expand...

Freddie....what would you think of a player who left it hanging....
...and then called it foul when his opponent hit the template?

...makes for an interesting ruling
 
ShortBusRuss said:
... Oh, and Bob... I owe you an ice cream at Derby just for a good call that cost that pr!ck Grabe a match.
Click to expand...
He gets a little feisty, but that's like a lot of pool players. I will, however, gladly accept a large rum raisin in a cup.:oink:
 
ShortBusRuss said:
Nobody deserves a cold roll like this any more than Denis Grabe.

Saw him play live in the Leende, NL Eurotour stop against Shane McMinn and he was the biggest tool I have ever seen near a pool table. Immediately started in on Shane before they had even broke the first rack, saying Shane was racking him and mentioned, "Oh, yeah, give me a bad rack, that is how all you Americans do it". Shane seemed to be completely shocked by his behavior, and offered to let Grabe rack for both of them. I piped up with "He's just trying to get in your head, Shane, don't let it get to you.."

Fortunately, Shane beat him. And to this day, I will cheer for every loss Denis Grabe ever takes, to the end of my days. Shoot, I will actually go out of my way to watch his live matches just in HOPES of seeing him lose.

Oh, and Bob... I owe you an ice cream at Derby just for a good call that cost that pr!ck Grabe a match.
Click to expand...

Kind of a shame you weren't there, Russ. You'd have been happy as a lark. Pleased to hear you'll be at the Derby. Look forward to seeing you.
 
Last edited:
terryhanna said:
Check this shot out guys if you were the ref what would your call be ?

It's the very last shot on at the end of the video :eek:

https://youtu.be/Dty5qlVsYAg?t=3742
Click to expand...

That's a weird one requiring a bit of good judgement. First of all the eight ball must be replaced. I would then ask for the players help in relocating the cue ball and the seven ball, and recreating the shot in question. That's the ruling I would make in the interest of "fair play."

The first thing I would say to both of them is that the eight ball must be restored! They would both now know that I was not going to call a foul and give the opponent BIH. That was not open for discussion. Now they only needed to assist me in recreating the previous shot. I would then ask the players to help me relocate the balls. I have been involved with similar situations in the past and both players became very helpful and co-operative in recreating the proper shot. It might turn out to be a tad more difficult shot then before to get both players to agree, but so be it. In making a ruling like you must be decisive and firm. Any hesitation on the part of the referee will open a can of worms that might take a long time to resolve.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top