Determining left / right inside or outside pivots or sweeps

[BC21]

As a trusted student and enthusiast of the CTE method of aiming, I am allowed to post this comment from Stan Shuffett in a chat.
Stan says......
"system gives outside pivot either a thick or thin alignment. There is no judgement at all. Thick CB relation gets an inside pivot. Thin CB OB relations get an outside
pivot".

Please relay to us how Stan believes one DETERMINES whether or not the CB OB relation is thick or thin. I believe he has already described that determination process in detail here: https://youtu.be/4iuvQT7dwfs?t=243s

There is no sense in arguing or debating any of this. The video is self explanatory. I do have to say that shots close to the pocket or shots where the ob is within a diamond or so from the rail, well, those are pretty obvious. I mean if you always have to thin or thicken the shot, these shots are easy to see which pivot to use. But for long shots from the middle of the table, it requires a little more experience to recognize or determine which way the shot needs to go. When it comes to recognizing or determining CB OB relationships, there is no substitute for experience.

 

[cookie man]

Oh, and Poolology is no guesswork. It's not traditional fractional aiming. You know the aim line before getting down on the shot.

And how do you find that aim line in poolology?

 

[BC21]

And how do you find that aim line in poolology?

By using the position of the OB on the table, in reference to the targeted pocket, then visually looking where the OB would go if shot straight into the rail from CCB. These known things provide the aim line from CCB to the OB. Then you align your body to stroke the cue along that known line. It requires simple math skills, and it's not for everyone, but nothing really is, and that's why there are so many different ways to accomplish the same goal. When you find a way that works, stick with it and make it your own.

 

[cookie man]

By using the position of the OB on the table, in reference to the targeted pocket, then visually looking where the OB would go if shot straight into the rail from CCB. These known things provide the aim line from CCB to the OB. Then you align your body to stroke the cue along that known line. It requires simple math skills, and it's not for everyone, but nothing really is, and that's why there are so many different ways to accomplish the same goal. When you find a way that works, stick with it and make it your own.

By your description the known line is CCB through the OB straight into the rail. How does it connect to the pocket

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Poolology is all strictly guesswork

Poolology is no guesswork. It's not traditional fractional aiming. You know the aim line before getting down on the shot.

And how do you find that aim line in poolology?

You passed judgment on Poolology without "taking it to the table"?

Look up hypocrisy.

pj
chgo

 

[cookie man]

You passed judgment on Poolology without "taking it to the table"?

Look up hypocrisy.

pj
chgo

All of the brief descriptions of it sure sound like guesswork.
Hell the inventor of it doesn't even use it in the heat of battle, how can it be anything else but guesswork

 

[BC21]

By your description the known line is CCB through the OB straight into the rail. How does it connect to the pocket

Nope. As described, that particular line from ccb through center ob is obviously not the aim line. It's used, in conjunction with the OB position on the table, to determine the aim line. But I am smiling and nodding, so if you really want to believe it's the aim line then go right ahead and believe it.

Out of respect for the op, none of this has anything to do with determining cte sweep/pivot directions. I originally replied to the op's question with a sensible answer of using experience to determine sweep/pivot direction. Experience comes into play in all aspects of this game.
If you insist on asking questions or steering the topic toward Poolology, then start another thread. And actually I do use my system on certain shots where I want to make sure I don't miss. Other than that, I do a fine job just seeing the shots and firing them in the way I've always done. It's a tool to be used when needed.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

...how can it be anything else but guesswork

You (well, most people) can actually figure that out by reading about it. Unlike your favorite system, it doesn't take years and multiple videos and books to (supposedly) "explain".

And it's free. [EDIT: Oops, it costs $5. My bad.]

pj
chgo

 

[Low500]

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[BC21]

All of the brief descriptions of it sure sound like guesswork.
Hell the inventor of it doesn't even use it in the heat of battle, how can it be anything else but guesswork

Hmmm..... so let's say an OB is sitting at a position value of what looks like 32, and the center to center line (from ccb through the OB and straight to the rail) gives a value of 20, we now have two known values here. No guesswork so far, and no judgment or determinations made about the shot itself, but I already know exactly where the aim line is. The ob can be pocketed using a 3/8 aim, which means the aim line goes from ccb to just outside the edge of the ob, producing a cb-ob overlap relationship of 3/8 (an eighth of a ball thinner than a halfball shot). No guessing. If the center to center line would've been 16 then the aim line would be from ccb to the edge of the ob, a dead 1/2 ball shot. No guessing.

So now you know. And I'm finished with off-topic posts.:smile:

 

[cookie man]

Nope. As described, that particular line from ccb through center ob is obviously not the aim line. It's used, in conjunction with the OB position on the table, to determine the aim line. But I am smiling and nodding, so if you really want to believe it's the aim line then go right ahead and believe it.

Out of respect for the op, none of this has anything to do with determining cte sweep/pivot directions. I originally replied to the op's question with a sensible answer of using experience to determine sweep/pivot direction. Experience comes into play in all aspects of this game.
If you insist on asking questions or steering the topic toward Poolology, then start another thread. And actually I do use my system on certain shots where I want to make sure I don't miss. Other than that, I do a fine job just seeing the shots and firing them in the way I've always done. It's a tool to be used when needed.

No i don't think it is the aim line, however that's what i got from your explanation.
The op's question was answered on page 1 and you even agreed it was a good answer, but you just couldn't leave it alone.

 

[cookie man]

You (well, most people) can actually figure that out by reading about it. Unlike your favorite system, it doesn't take years and multiple videos and books to (supposedly) "explain".

And it's free.

pj
chgo

FREE, Where? Poolology is the biggest secret on this forum.

 

[cookie man]

Hmmm..... so let's say an OB is sitting at a position value of what looks like 32, and the center to center line (from ccb through the OB and straight to the rail) gives a value of 20, we now have two known values here. No guesswork so far, and no judgment or determinations made about the shot itself, but I already know exactly where the aim line is. The ob can be pocketed using a 3/8 aim, which means the aim line goes from ccb to just outside the edge of the ob, producing a cb-ob overlap relationship of 3/8 (an eighth of a ball thinner than a halfball shot). No guessing. If the center to center line would've been 16 then the aim line would be from ccb to the edge of the ob, a dead 1/2 ball shot. No guessing.

So now you know. And I'm finished with off-topic posts.:smile:

"of what looks like 32" Is that not a guess? Seems to be.

 

[BC21]

No i don't think it is the aim line, however that's what i got from your explanation.
The op's question was answered on page 1 and you even agreed it was a good answer, but you just couldn't leave it alone.

Yes you're right, the op's question was answered on page 1, and yes I agreed it was a good answer. Then the whole question of how players determine whether a shot looks thick or thin. It's called experienced judgement, and for some reason that gets a few people bent out of shape. JUDGMENT??!! EXPERIENCE!!?!

Smiling. Nodding.

And as far as "what looks like 32".... No it's not a guess. It's an accurate estimation, like looking at a player out on a football field and saying he is on the 32 yard line. Is that a guess? No. There are known yardlines that make it very simple for almost anyone with eyes to get a very accurate yard line position for that particular player. Calling that a guess would be a bit ridiculous. Could you be off by half a yard? Absolutely. But the value is so close it doesn't matter if you're a touch off being exact.

 

[cookie man]

Yes you're right, the op's question was answered on page 1, and yes I agreed it was a good answer. Then the whole question of how players determine whether a shot looks thick or thin. It's called experienced judgement, and for some reason that gets a few people bent out of shape. JUDGMENT??!! EXPERIENCE!!?!

Smiling. Nodding.

And as far as "what looks like 32".... No it's not a guess. It's an accurate estimation, like looking at a player out on a football field and saying he is on the 32 yard line. Is that a guess? No. There are known yardlines that make it very simple for almost anyone with eyes to get a very accurate yard line position for that particular player. Calling that a guess would be a bit ridiculous. Could you be off by half a yard? Absolutely. But the value is so close it doesn't matter if you're a touch off being exact.

JUDGEMENT/EXPERIENCE you say however anyone with a lesson from an accredited instructor would know objectively which it is, thick or thin.


Ok, back to poolology. I've got some white chalk out and looking to put lines on my table, like a football field, since that's the example you are using. Where exactly is the 32 and is my line to go short rail to short rail or long rail to long rail?
By the way i started another thread if you would like to take this discussion over there.

PS accurate estimation. Wow that's a good one.

 

[BC21]

JUDGEMENT/EXPERIENCE you say however anyone with a lesson from an accredited instructor would know objectively which it is, thick or thin.


Ok, back to poolology. I've got some white chalk out and looking to put lines on my table, like a football field, since that's the example you are using. Where exactly is the 32 and is my line to go short rail to short rail or long rail to long rail?
By the way i started another thread if you would like to take this discussion over there.

PS accurate estimation. Wow that's a good one.

Lol...yes, accurate estimation is much better than sloppy estimation, and worlds better than guessing. If you fell asleep watching a football game, and woke up with someone covering yours eyes, telling you to guess what yardline the ball is on, well....that's a guess. If, however, you look at field you can easily name the yard line within half a yard.

 

[cookie man]

Lol...yes, accurate estimation is much better than sloppy estimation, and worlds better than guessing. If you fell asleep watching a football game, and woke up with someone covering yours eyes, telling you to guess what yardline the ball is on, well....that's a guess. If, however, you look at field you can easily name the yard line within half a yard.

I see you skipped the part about where to draw the lines on my table lol.
Being off by half a yard could easily cost my favorite team a first down or possibly a game winning field goal. Miss guessing your "32" could then it seems very easily mean i would then miss that key ball in the corner pocket that would win me the cash.
What is the range of your number system? i assume it starts at 1 and goes to at least 32, but really how far does it go.

 

[mohrt]

I’ll take a shot at answering OP question. Forget CTE for a moment and pretend you are lining up any cut shot. So. you want to stand behind the CB and look directly down the shot line through CCB. Now, how do you determine if you are ON the shot line, or if you are thick or thin of it? You should be able to look down CCB and visually SEE the answer, yes? Keep this in mind.

So now back to CTE. This time we have already picked the perception and put our eyes where the aim line and CTEL are aligned. From here, it’s the same! Looking through CCB we should be able to see how it aligns with the OB and determine IF we just shot straight through, are we thick or thin? That determines the sweep/pivot. Be keenly aware that the CCB “line” we are looking down is not the aim line (A/B/C) or the CTEL. Those are used to establish this CCB we are looking at. And of course after we are down on the shot and after the sweep/pivot, now THIS CCB is the shot line we shoot down.

Mind you, the book and truth series are going to simplify this process dramatically, so be patient

 

[Patrick Johnson]

accurate estimation. Wow that's a good one.

Yes, accurate estimation. It's a thing. Accurate doesn't mean exact, and estimation doesn't mean wild ass guess.

Many of the disagreements about aiming systems seem to be rooted in different interpretations of words like accurate, estimation, judgment, objective, etc.

pj <- but I'm still right
chgo

 

[JoeyInCali]

Or you can all end this and just use equal opposite parts or opposite contact points aiming systems.
Those can't be argued against.