14.1 Stats -- John Schmidt's Run of 434 on Video, December 2018

[ChrisinNC]

Rolling across a raised dot is a lot different from spinning like a top on the dot. The former gives you little bumps each time the dot comes around. The latter possibly causes a continuous force to one side.

That is precisely my hunch as well as to exactly what happened - particularly considering when you study it closely it's obvious that the dots were spinning around the horizontal center of the ball as it kept curving towards that corner - meaning there was a dot directly on the base of the ball throughout that track. Add to that, the videos of a couple of instances during the run where the cue ball appeared to move slightly after initially stopping - again with the dots horizontally aligned across the center of the ball and a dot on the very top of the ball, which means a dot was directly on the bottom (base) of the cue ball contacting the cloth when it rolled off. I'm sure this same cue ball will not be used in future attempts.

Speaking of the cue ball he was using, if ever John or someone does break Mosconi's 526, I'm curious what that very cue ball might be worth as a collector's item?

 

[jviss]

I don't "get" the use of a measles ball in regular play. I thought it was a training ball. I have no doubt the spots affect the ball path at times. What folks have said here make sense, intuitively: that the ball was spinning on a spot, and the slightly raised spot is what made the ball curve. (The other theories are good, too!)

 

[ChrisinNC]

I don't "get" the use of a measles ball in regular play. I thought it was a training ball. I have no doubt the spots affect the ball path at times. What folks have said here make sense, intuitively: that the ball was spinning on a spot, and the slightly raised spot is what made the ball curve. (The other theories are good, too!)

In general, pro players seem to really like the Aramith pro cup measle ball, so it's possible John has a preference for it. Also, it makes sense for financial reasons - the measle ball might be the most valuable cue ball he could possibly be using when setting this record. It is the only cue ball that you can easily identify when being used - which could lead to a potential Aramith endorsement deal for John if he's taped using that ball in his record setting run.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I don't "get" the use of a measles ball in regular play. I thought it was a training ball. ...

The spots were originally made for carom on TV where it is very interesting to see the spin on the cue ball. The process was developed about 1999. The spotted ball was briefly used at snooker.

 

[realkingcobra]

As I've stated before, no significant roll-off was noticed at any other time by that pocket.

That's my point, if there was something wrong with the cue ball, it would have shown up a lot earlier. Grain tracking requires the perfect speed, and the perfect alignment to the grain weave, then I assure you, the ball will follow right along just like the rows between corn. If you'll remember several years ago, the same exact thing happened to Darren Appleton at the foot end of a 9ft Diamond at I believe a CSI event, maybe during a 1 pocket game, i can't remember, but i changed the bed cloth and it never happened again. But I did reproduce the same speed and travel path, and the samething happened again, that's when Mark Griffin had me change the bed cloth because it was on the TV table.

 

[jasonlaus]

That is precisely my hunch as well as to exactly what happened - particularly considering when you study it closely it's obvious that the dots were spinning around the horizontal center of the ball as it kept curving towards that corner - meaning there was a dot directly on the base of the ball throughout that track. Add to that, the videos of a couple of instances during the run where the cue ball appeared to move slightly after initially stopping - again with the dots horizontally aligned across the center of the ball and a dot on the very top of the ball, which means a dot was directly on the bottom (base) of the cue ball contacting the cloth when it rolled off. I'm sure this same cue ball will not be used in future attempts.

Speaking of the cue ball he was using, if ever John or someone does break Mosconi's 526, I'm curious what that very cue ball might be worth as a collector's item?

How was the ball moving up table then? Sliding?
Jason

 

[HawaiianEye]

The spots were originally made for carom on TV where it is very interesting to see the spin on the cue ball. The process was developed about 1999. The spotted ball was briefly used at snooker.

They should get rid of them.

Let the bangers figure out what spin is on the ball by learning the game, not watching spinning dots.

To me, they are distracting and I don't like playing with them. Not really because of the dots, but because I think they play "funny" and the two different materials of the red and white don't seem to be the "same" consistency.

 

[realkingcobra]

That is precisely my hunch as well as to exactly what happened - particularly considering when you study it closely it's obvious that the dots were spinning around the horizontal center of the ball as it kept curving towards that corner - meaning there was a dot directly on the base of the ball throughout that track. Add to that, the videos of a couple of instances during the run where the cue ball appeared to move slightly after initially stopping - again with the dots horizontally aligned across the center of the ball and a dot on the very top of the ball, which means a dot was directly on the bottom (base) of the cue ball contacting the cloth when it rolled off. I'm sure this same cue ball will not be used in future attempts.

Speaking of the cue ball he was using, if ever John or someone does break Mosconi's 526, I'm curious what that very cue ball might be worth as a collector's item?

Impossible to spin on a spot, and travel rolling, on the same spot.

 

[Michael Andros]

They should get rid of them.

Let the bangers figure out what spin is on the ball by learning the game, not watching spinning dots.

To me, they are distracting and I don't like playing with them. Not really because of the dots, but because I think they play "funny" and the two different materials of the red and white don't seem to be the "same" consistency.

I absolutely refuse to play with them. Period. Under any circumstances.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Impossible to spin on a spot, and travel rolling, on the same spot.

But it is quite possible on the same small area with extreme side spin.

 

[jrctherake]

That's my point, if there was something wrong with the cue ball, it would have shown up a lot earlier. Grain tracking requires the perfect speed, and the perfect alignment to the grain weave, then I assure you, the ball will follow right along just like the rows between corn. If you'll remember several years ago, the same exact thing happened to Darren Appleton at the foot end of a 9ft Diamond at I believe a CSI event, maybe during a 1 pocket game, i can't remember, but i changed the bed cloth and it never happened again. But I did reproduce the same speed and travel path, and the samething happened again, that's when Mark Griffin had me change the bed cloth because it was on the TV table.

Can't get much simpler and much more fact based than ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.

It was pretty much same scenario as you described. SNIP, SNIP, SNIP....

 

[HawaiianEye]

Impossible to spin on a spot, and travel rolling, on the same spot.

How about "sliding" and "spinning"?

Like a bowler who throws a "spinner" instead of a "breaking ball".

The bowling ball is spinning on the "bottom" and then after it travels for a distance, the speed wears off and the ball will start "breaking" a little and curve, but not as far and deep as a "breaking ball".

 

[jasonlaus]

But it is quite possible on the same small area with extreme side spin.

Our question is how it moved up table then? You are claiming it was sliding?
Jason

 

[jasonlaus]

How about "sliding" and "spinning"?

Like a bowler who throws a "spinner" instead of a "breaking ball".

The bowling ball is spinning on the "bottom" and then after it travels for a distance, the speed wears off and the ball will start "breaking" a little and curve, but not as far and deep as a "breaking ball".

Again, you guys are saying the q ball slid all the way up table?
Jason

 

[HawaiianEye]

Again, you guys are saying the q ball slid all the way up table?
Jason

I can't really tell from the quality of the video, but it looks like the cue ball was spinning around and around on its vertical axis. The spots don't seem to be going end-over-end to me.

 

[jasonlaus]

I can't really tell from the quality of the video, but it looks like the cue ball was spinning around and around on its vertical axis. The spots don't seem to be going end-over-end to me.

Will have to watch on something bigger than my phone.

Jason

 

[jasonlaus]

I can't really tell from the quality of the video, but it looks like the cue ball was spinning around and around on its vertical axis. The spots don't seem to be going end-over-end to me.

Maybe it's the same effect as rims being stationary on a moving car. It does look like it's just spinning and not rolling.
Jason

 

[jrctherake]

Maybe it's the same effect as rims being stationary on a moving car. It does look like it's just spinning and not rolling.
Jason

John must have put some kind of voodoo on the CB to make it moonwalk all the way up tables without rolling.:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

 

[dr_dave]

Again, you guys are saying the q ball slid all the way up table?

The ball is rolling with sidespin. There is no sliding occurring. For good explanations and demonstrations of this, see the spin, slide, and roll resource page.

If a ball is rolling slowly with a lot of sidespin (as with John’s shot), the cloth contact point (or patch) traces a small circle on the bottom of the ball. And if there were a bulging spot in the center of this circle, the CB would turn. Regardless, I still think the main cause for the scratch was “ball turn,” as demonstrated in my video:

NV J.16 - Did “Ball Turn” Deny John Schmidt (434) Willie Mosconi’s Straight Pool Record (526)?

Directional cloth weave and other effects mentioned in the video could have also have also been contributing factors.

Regards,
Dave

 

[Bob Jewett]

Our question is how it moved up table then? You are claiming it was sliding?
Jason

Think of how a barrel is rolled when tilted a little from upright. You can do the same thing with a taller cylinder, like a paper towel roll (cardboard center part). That is what a cue ball is doing when it has extreme side spin and only a little forward motion. It is rolling but the spin axis is nearly vertical. It is not sliding at all.