I know PJ is more of the guy that, copies & pastes others info!
I can show a little excerpt from an exhibition I did in 1997,, that might keep you eating popcorn with some, Force-follow and close Force-follow shots!
https://youtu.be/fqSz5LazJIU
Stroke! Wonder How to get their fantastic Strokes?
- Thread starter Bobkitty
- Start date
I know PJ is more of the guy that, copies & pastes others info!
I can show a little excerpt from an exhibition I did in 1997,, that might keep you eating popcorn with some, Force-follow and close Force-follow shots!
https://youtu.be/fqSz5LazJIU
I can tell you all I pity the new players that are reading these conflicting ideas and don't know which ones to believe. After 15+ years of discussing pool on the internet (I know that's not even much compared to some of you) I'm still regularly astonished by the sheer volume of factually incorrect "knowledge" that gets presented in some of these threads.
The amount of time an inexperienced player waste trying to learn to do things in a physically-impossible way by listening to some of you people makes me cringe.
Stroke power is nothing more than cue speed at the moment of contact and how far off center you strike the ball, kids. Nothing. Else. Learning to hit the CB in that exact spot with higher amounts of cue speed is the only magic trick.
The amount of time an inexperienced player waste trying to learn to do things in a physically-impossible way by listening to some of you people makes me cringe.
Stroke power is nothing more than cue speed at the moment of contact and how far off center you strike the ball, kids. Nothing. Else. Learning to hit the CB in that exact spot with higher amounts of cue speed is the only magic trick.
IMHO, you're pretty much correct in your assessment, of the primary mechanics. The big trick is being able to do it on demand!
That "on demand" part is where I'm coming up short.
Lol....this happened last month:
I go to a tournament a day early. I "practice" for a few hours the day before. I "DRILLED" the 9 ball ghost several sets. A couple sets were 9 to 1, with the worst set being 9 to 5.
Well, guess what, I went to tournament the next day and went two and out. COULDN'T MAKE A BALL. I missed several BIH shots.
I was playing guys that have average Fargos of mid to high 500's. I normally hang with high 600's to low 700's......WHEN.......Lol....you guessed it, "I'm in stroke"
Once again, a champ at the camp but.... two and gone at a tournament because.....wait for it:
Can't do it on demand yet!
If you have to "get in stroke" to play at a high level, well, your not gonna stay there long nor will you get there often.
Got a current fargo?
So I did understand you - and you're definitely mistaken. You can't hit the CB in different places with any stick and get the same result.
To get the same result you have to:
- with the same stick: hit the CB in the same place at the same angle
- with different sticks: hit the CB in the same place at different angles
You also can't "hit further out on the cue ball with one angle than another".
I was talking about using different sticks, as described above - it's the only way hitting the CB at different angles can produce the same result.
pj
chgo
Last edited:
By experienced players who've been around here for years, no less.
And it seems to be increasing lately.
pj
chgo
0
............
I keep making plans to play in a tournament that reports to it or join a league etc.... but life/health issues keep getting in the way.
Lol...... let him "copy and paste" all he wants.
I worked with all sorts of guys from complete morons that pretended to be intelligent to people that were pretty genius in many ways but, never said a word. Their work spoke for them.
In the end, hey, if it makes someone feel good about themselves to do "x", I'm not gonna rain on their parade UNLESS they give me chit. Then, lol...well, they ask for it. At that time, its PUT UP OR SHUT THE "F" UP!
Simple as that, or at least it was that simple "in person".
The internet is a breeding ground for people like that.
Sometimes they are free entertainment, othertimes, they are just what makes it "not worth it", if you know what I mean.
pj, the points of your discussion have lost all consistency. Also it seems you can't grasp the results of what little you do understand.
If hitting the cue ball in the same place gives different results when using front hand and back hand side, which you have already acknowledged in this thread, then to get the same results the cue ball has to be hit in a slightly different place. That is true even if the result desired is to break contact with the tip prematurely, a miscue! Since we rarely desire a miscue, that means that looking at things from the shooter's perspective, back hand english will cause a miscue closer to the center of the cue ball than front hand english will. You have acknowledged that front hand and back hand english give different amounts of squirt for the same shot. Excessive squirt is what causes a miscue!
Can you not understand that if front hand side gives maximum possible side without a miscue at a designated point on the cue ball, then back hand side hitting the cue ball in the same place but a steeper angle has to result in a miscue?
FROM the shooter's perspective, you can hit the cue ball further out with front hand side. You can hit it still further out moving the front and back of the stick equally to have the least possible angle of those three choices. I doubt any gain a measurable benefit since the grip of the contact patch on the cloth is the limiting factor regardless and it remains constant.
Hu
:yikes: :banghead: 
opcorn: (azb don’t have all the good ones) I’m just sitting here reading. I think PJ and Hu - Manchu are talking about 2 different things. We just need a little more force follow in our lives, a little bend maybe..things will smooth right the f out.
I prefer playing pool extremely well but I’m in a slump. 2 or 3 weeks now, the worst it’s ever been since I started playing decent. Now I’m depressed. Just throwing that out there. Fallibility and all that.
opcorn: (azb don’t have all the good ones) I’m just sitting here reading. I think PJ and Hu - Manchu are talking about 2 different things. We just need a little more force follow in our lives, a little bend maybe..things will smooth right the f out. I prefer playing pool extremely well but I’m in a slump. 2 or 3 weeks now, the worst it’s ever been since I started playing decent. Now I’m depressed. Just throwing that out there. Fallibility and all that.
Except you won't get the same results - you'll get different spin and/or a different CB direction. As I said above, to get the same results you have to:
- (with the same stick) hit the CB in the same place at the same angle
- (with different sticks) hit the CB in the same place at different angles
Not if you send the CB in the same direction. Whatever the cue's angle, squirt "turns" the force of impact so it's parallel with the CB's direction, so the miscue limit is measured from the perspective of the CB's path, not the cue's angle.
This is slippery stuff to get a mental grip on - can take a few runs at it to get it straight.
pj
chgo
Last edited:
It means no accountability and, therefore you and others like you can keep on talking chit.
pj,
there is literally an infinite number of paths between the cue ball and the object ball to get the same result at the object ball. The result at the object ball is where the rubber meets the road of course. I assumed you realized the object of the game was to pocket the balls other than the white one.
Hu
There is often only one way to get a result if you are also interested in where the cue ball is going.
An example of where there is clearly an infinite number of ways to get the same final result is a short stop shot. Low and slow and high and hard and everything in between will work.
An example where the options are far more limited is a spot shot where the cue ball is on the headstring and six inches off the cushion and the cue ball must end up frozen to the exact middle of the foot rail. The range of spin, direction and speed that will work for this shot is very small. I suppose you could argue that the number of solutions is still infinite since elevation can be varied and the shot can still be made to work by making stick speed, aim, and spin match.
But I think PJ was talking about something much simpler. Maybe I can restate it.
If you want the cue ball to leave the tip with a particular spin, speed and direction, there is only a single place to put the cue stick in three dimensions and only a single speed at tip-to-ball contact that will give the desired result on the cue ball.
While there are some minor quibbles with the absolute truth of that statement, I'm pretty sure it is accurate enough for any practical purpose on the pool table.
(The sort of minor quibble I'm talking about is gripping the cue stick very, very tightly at contact to effectively increase the mass of the cue stick by a tiny percent, or swooping the cue stick during the stroke so that it is rotating at contact time. Both of those change the shot parameters very slightly but that change can be obtained by very small speed or spin changes while using standard mechanics.)
What he said.
Also the same contact point and force (but different angle) for shooting the same shot with different sticks.
pj
chgo
Last edited: