Diamond Systems, How to Test a Table, Diamond Table Banking Short

This is the best explanation I have heard:

The cushion noses are lower than normal and are angled slightly down due to the bevel of the sub-rail cushion backing.

But I have not verified this.
I thought a higher cushion nose would shorten banks - because hitting higher on the ball would increase cross-table after-rebound masse...?
A higher cushion nose drives the ball down into the rail groove, causing energy loss. A lower cushion nose does this less, so the ball rebounds with more normal (perpendicular) speed creating a shorter rebound. The induced spin effects off the cushion are less important.

Regards,
Dave
 
A higher cushion nose drives the ball down into the rail groove, causing energy loss. A lower cushion nose does this less, so the ball rebounds with more normal (perpendicular) speed creating a shorter rebound. The induced spin effects off the cushion are less important.

Regards,
Dave
Oh, OK. Thanks, Dave.

pj
chgo
 
Does somebody have convenient access to an unmodified factory-built "Blue Label" Diamond? If so, please consider trying out the set of test shots starting at the 6:42 point in the video to see how they play. Even better, please consider posting a video on YouTube.

I hope to test a "Blue Label" Diamond in the future when I can get access, but it might take a while.
What do you mean and un-modified blue label?
... as built from the factory.

You also did not specify what size table?? the 7' and 8' come with Black Diamond K55 cushions and the 9' get the Artemis Intercontinental 66 cushions ( also k55).
I assumed 9', but it would be interesting to test all table sizes.

I have installed a few 7' for clients
If you get a chance, please run through the test shots and report what you find.

Thanks,
Dave
 
Watching the final 16 TV table at the recent US open, there were several examples of poor position play “by the best 16 players in the entire world” due to the blue label diamond table springiness and shortness. I contend it’s still not correct after all these years of complaints and fiddling with the wood angles.
 
Watching the final 16 TV table at the recent US open, there were several examples of poor position play “by the best 16 players in the entire world” due to the blue label diamond table springiness and shortness. I contend it’s still not correct after all these years of complaints and fiddling with the wood angles.


What is "correct" in comparison to? Please elaborate. Would like to hear more of an explanation? Diamond has their current line of tables pretty dialed in. They are tough to play on, but, I rarely hear anyone complain about them. Thanks

Trent from Toledo
 
GC is correct.

The announcers including Boyes who is a top pro were saying the final 16 tv table was off. Several times the Asian pros in the final 16, which we all think are generally the best, were dumbfounded at where the CB went.

You never see that on a GC.
 
One shot I forgot who shot it but it was one of the Chinese or Taiwanese, the 9 was in the rack and the CB on a perfect angle to shoot the 9 in and go 4 rails back to the middle diamond of the head rail. The table played so short, the CB almost scratched in the corner pocket off of the 3rd rail, instead of going to the end rail. Brand new cloth and tv lights are supposed to make the table play longer. Diamond tables play all over the place due to their cushion, depending on the environmental conditions. Much more variations than GCs.
 
I’ll say it for the 30th time, Diamond should find out who makes the super speed cushion, and buy it for their tables (with Diamond label on it of course). Then copy exactly all the dimensions of the GC, and even the wood materials of the sub rails. Then the Diamond table will be perfect.
 
I’ll say it for the 30th time, Diamond should find out who makes the super speed cushion, and buy it for their tables (with Diamond label on it of course). Then copy exactly all the dimensions of the GC, and even the wood materials of the sub rails. Then the Diamond table will be perfect.


Ahh, you are one of those "can't accept reality" guys, the tables are what they are. Diamond does not want their tables to play like a GC. Not going to happen. I agree that the Artemis do play differently and I like that actually, but, most pro's seem to handle themselves just fine on them in tournaments. I like both tables. Diamond is the tournament table currently and for the future. Whether you, I or anyone else likes it or not. Just my $0.02.

Trent from Toledo
 
Got it. I look forward to testing out a 9' Blue Label Diamond at some point.

Regards,
Dave


PS< I AM A FAN, Pat J. from Chicago made me an official Dr Dave fanclub member!! funny story, a foreign guy from pool league that saw my shirt was offended. I dont think he understood! LOL


58610194_10219224804433875_6492733942905438208_o.jpg
 
Ahh, you are one of those "can't accept reality" guys, the tables are what they are. Diamond does not want their tables to play like a GC. Not going to happen. I agree that the Artemis do play differently and I like that actually, but, most pro's seem to handle themselves just fine on them in tournaments. I like both tables. Diamond is the tournament table currently and for the future. Whether you, I or anyone else likes it or not. Just my $0.02.

Trent from Toledo

You sell the tables, you are biased, whether you admit it or not.

Archer, Gabe, off the top of my head, have gone on record saying they don't like them. I think most others keep their mouths shut because Diamond obviously sponsors many events.

I'd find the shots for you in the final 16, but I don't want to sit and watch all those matches again, its not worth it.

If Brunswick came back to the pro game and put on tournaments with their tables, I think most pros would prefer "the rail action" on the GC. Other parts of the table I'm not debating, each table has pros and cons.

The part about Diamond not wanting to play like a GC I don't believe for one second. I frankly believe they don't know how to make the table play better. It took them 20 years of red label complaints to switch to Blue. And they didn't even do it, it took Glen and/or Mark to do it. It took them 15 years of black mark complaints on balls to switch the pockets. Their tournament software at the DCC is stuck in the stone ages. Sulliven has been talking every year for the past 10 years about making a tour in Tunica, Atlantic City, and Derby City, and growing that. Same talk every year. Sure, its nice that they love pool, but I don't think they get the job done. IMO:) That's all.

Edit: Even Sullivan knows something is wrong with his tables. He wanted to make a Simonis 960 to slow down the Diamond BarBox. Yet a Valley has absolutely no issues with speed off of the rails. Only Diamond. No other table.
 
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Does somebody have convenient access to an unmodified factory-built "Blue Label" Diamond? If so, please consider trying out the set of test shots starting at the 6:42 point in the video to see how they play. Even better, please consider posting a video on YouTube.

I hope to test a "Blue Label" Diamond in the future when I can get access, but it might take a while.

Thanks,
Dave

I played on a 7’ blue diamond today: The rolling 2-1 kick and 4-2 kick both came up maybe 1/3 diamond short, and the 4.3-2 fast bank came up short too. The 2.3-1 fast bank worked. I forgot to try the other ones.

The table has about 2-year old, pretty worn cloth, 860 I think.
 
I’ll say it for the 30th time, Diamond should find out who makes the super speed cushion, and buy it for their tables (with Diamond label on it of course). Then copy exactly all the dimensions of the GC, and even the wood materials of the sub rails. Then the Diamond table will be perfect.

I have Artemis on my GCII.
Waste of money. Way overrated.
Should have stuck with Super Speed when I had the table done.
 
You sell the tables, you are biased, whether you admit it or not.

Archer, Gabe, off the top of my head, have gone on record saying they don't like them. I think most others keep their mouths shut because Diamond obviously sponsors many events.

I'd find the shots for you in the final 16, but I don't want to sit and watch all those matches again, its not worth it.

If Brunswick came back to the pro game and put on tournaments with their tables, I think most pros would prefer "the rail action" on the GC. Other parts of the table I'm not debating, each table has pros and cons.

The part about Diamond not wanting to play like a GC I don't believe for one second. I frankly believe they don't know how to make the table play better. It took them 20 years of red label complaints to switch to Blue. And they didn't even do it, it took Glen and/or Mark to do it. It took them 15 years of black mark complaints on balls to switch the pockets. Their tournament software at the DCC is stuck in the stone ages. Sulliven has been talking every year for the past 10 years about making a tour in Tunica, Atlantic City, and Derby City, and growing that. Same talk every year. Sure, its nice that they love pool, but I don't think they get the job done. IMO:) That's all.


I think you are CONFUSED about my business. I am a Brunswick restorer FIRST, have a look at the work: https://www.facebook.com/pg/toledopooltables/photos/?tab=albums

Opinions are allowed:) The true fact is that Diamonds are the tournament standard. All of what you said are your opinions. GLEN made the Blue label changes and mark had nothing to do with it: FACT. Another fact: I like playing one pocket on a 9' Blue Label Pro Am!

Trent from Toledo
:thumbup:
 
I played on a 7’ blue diamond today: The rolling 2-1 kick and 4-2 kick both came up maybe 1/3 diamond short, and the 4.3-2 fast bank came up short too. The 2.3-1 fast bank worked. I forgot to try the other ones.

The table has about 2-year old, pretty worn cloth, 860 I think.
Thanks for the info. I much prefer actual test results like this to anecdotal hearsay. I hope more people also do the tests on other Diamond equipment and report results.

Thanks again,
Dave
 
PS< I AM A FAN, Pat J. from Chicago made me an official Dr Dave fanclub member!! funny story, a foreign guy from pool league that saw my shirt was offended. I dont think he understood! LOL
I hope you like the shirt. Other people have also told me my shirt offends some people. I guess they only see (and misinterpret) the “Got English?” words and don’t connect it to pool and sidespin (despite the shot diagram and physics equations also on the shirt). Some people get offended too easily, IMO.

Regards,
Dave
 
I hope you like the shirt. Other people have also told me my shirt offends some people. I guess they only see (and misinterpret) the “Got English?” words and don’t connect it to pool and sidespin (despite the shot diagram and physics equations also on the shirt). Some people get offended too easily, IMO.

Regards,
Dave

I love the shirt! People are generally wimps and wanna be pissed off about any little thing! LOL

Trent
 
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